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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
    #525250 - 01/19/02 03:14 AM (20 years, 4 days ago)

North Dakota isn't a right-to-work state and the strikers should have known that it is legal for the employer to do that. In a right-to-work state the emploter would have been forced to bargain or be slapped with an unfair labor practice.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
    #525297 - 01/19/02 04:50 AM (20 years, 4 days ago)

Which state has a rightful state to organize? I know that some companies persuade employers not to join unions, and that there is no need, and if you were to form a union you would be fired, all in the pretense of the state law. Where if which you would not even qualify for unemployment pay. That is kind of scary. Like why would they put preemtive measures like that in place, for no reason. Whichever company does things like that, take for example K-Mart, with their 70's strikes, after which they changed their name from Kale Market to K-Market for short. And moved their whole clothes division to from the east shore to small coastal islands where the change really did take effect after 20 years or so. Then noone would know of the strikes from the west and global market, and the company would survive. Things like that are completely normal, and in no way based on the fact that the u.s. government can provide cheaper labor outside of the country because of any unequal tax brackets.


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InvisiblePGF
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Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: nugsarenice]
    #525383 - 01/19/02 09:08 AM (20 years, 4 days ago)

North Carolina is a right to hire, right to fire state.

Join a union and get fired. Just ask anyone who worked at Food Lion during the early 90's what happens when they try to organize.....they get canned. Cheap labor? Mexico or the south.


--------------------
***The Real Shroomery nigger


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
    #525424 - 01/19/02 11:09 AM (20 years, 4 days ago)

****North Carolina is a right to hire, right to fire state. Join a union and get fired. Just ask anyone who worked at Food Lion during the early 90's ****

NC is a right to work state. Right to work states are not generally states of high industrial businesses. A Right to Work law secures the right of employees to decide for themselves whether or not to join or financially support a union. However, employees who work in the railway or airline industries or on a federal enclave may not be protected by a Right to Work law. It's harder to organize in these states because either a. they can't afford unions or b. the corporations are professional as in texas and the computer industry. Food lion wasn't fired because they wanted to organize because under the Wagner Act a person has the right to choose whether or not to join a union.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: nugsarenice]
    #525425 - 01/19/02 11:14 AM (20 years, 4 days ago)

****Which state has a rightful state to organize? ****

Every state has the right to organize if they see fit..except federal employees. It's illegal for federal employees to strike..see PATCO to see an example (air traffic controllers)

****I know that some companies persuade employers not to join unions, and that there is no need, and if you were to form a union you would be fired,****

There are some companies that speak against unions which is perfectly legal, however it is illegal to say that you will fire if a union is form in any state

****Where if which you would not even qualify for unemployment pay.****

That's not true



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
    #525500 - 01/19/02 01:21 PM (20 years, 3 days ago)

Maybe not true. But i was sure under the impression that you could be fired for joining a union. Because like that emplyers say, most unions are only trying to rip you off on money, they are just con-artists, so if you were to organize a strike from one of these non-justified unions, then maybe you could be fired. Right?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: nugsarenice]
    #525549 - 01/19/02 02:14 PM (20 years, 3 days ago)

****Maybe not true. But i was sure under the impression that you could be fired for joining a union.****

The National Labor Relations Act (Wagner Act) gives private sector employees the right to organize without the fear of termination..it's the law

**Because like that emplyers say, most unions are only trying to rip you off on money**

A lot of employers say that and a lot of them are correct...but it's legal to say it

****so if you were to organize a strike from one of these non-justified unions, then maybe you could be fired. Right? ****

keep in mind that just because you say "we're unionizing" it's not a done deal. A proper union with representatives and bargaining has to take place. A strike by employees before a union is formed is grounds for termination and perfectly legal. Believe it or not a majority maybe upwards of 90% of bargaining is done without strikes.

can ya tell i do this for a living yet?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisiblePGF
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Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
    #525745 - 01/19/02 08:09 PM (20 years, 3 days ago)

innvertigo, trust me. I worked for FL's attorneys and we effectively destroyed the union for food lion employees. Trust me on this one.

"

NC is a right to work state. Right to work states are not generally states of high industrial businesses."

We are the textiles industry in the US.


--------------------
***The Real Shroomery nigger


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
    #526175 - 01/20/02 02:56 AM (20 years, 3 days ago)

****innvertigo, trust me. I worked for FL's attorneys and we effectively destroyed the union for food lion employees.****

Then you should know about the NLRA. If not you should if you're going into law. The Food lion union was NOT dispelled for forming a union. That my friend is against the law...ask your attorny friends.

****We are the textiles industry in the US. ***

NC isn't primarily a industrial state. Sure they have industries present but unlike states like Michigan, Ohio, New York, Illinois..etc. their primary focus is not industrial

go to this link: http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisiblePGF
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Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
    #526318 - 01/20/02 05:55 AM (20 years, 3 days ago)

Everyone does not always follow the letter of the law.

Food Lion employees who were found handing out pro-union
leaflets were harassed and fired under different pretense.

The union backed some attorneys who started a class action lawsuit
to investigate employees who were made to work off the clock.
The class actions were split into multi-district litigation. Only a handful
(maybe 12 individuals out of 1000) made it to trial.
The allegations were 100% correct, but the plaintiff's lost in the long haul.

This crap took up 4 years of my life. I bet I could get in trouble somehow for talking about it.

Anyway, our attorneys told FL corporate that we could keep the union out of their store. Period.
I was there. And, we did it.

Fl effectively forced out at least one union chain in the south because of it's ability to undercut their prices. Personally, I stay away from FL.

FL is fiercly anti-union. When the union first started their capaign in the stores, FL countered by counseling each and every staff member. They pitted pro-union staff against regular staff. ......... they did lots of things to keep the union out. ....... sure, it wasn't Matewan, but it was a company fight against the unions.


--------------------
***The Real Shroomery nigger


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
    #527149 - 01/21/02 08:38 AM (20 years, 2 days ago)

****Food Lion employees who were found handing out pro-union leaflets were harassed and fired under different pretense.****

Well handing out pro-union leaflets during work hours or on the premises of the business is grounds for dismmisal in most businesses. Especialy in a right to work state where it is harder to unionize and lacks the idustrial base.

****Anyway, our attorneys told FL corporate that we could keep the union out of their store. Period. I was there. And, we did it. ***

which is perfectly legal. A business can discorage unionization as long as they don't use that as a determination for hire/fire

****They pitted pro-union staff against regular staff. ......... they did lots of things to keep the union out****

this is legal.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 3,442
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
    #527357 - 01/21/02 03:03 PM (20 years, 1 day ago)

With all of those legalities, people who are uneducated cannot understand, and only interpret it as not being able to form a union. Imagine someone who could not speak english very well. They would be lost, and certainly would not be part of any legal union, whereever those are. So in fact the goverment succeeded in destroying unions, even though it is illegal. Not for lawyers like Invertigo though, I'm sure he would pass by all those loopholes, and be able to form a union and strike, to make sure that the workers get their fair pay. Anyway, what type of organizational tax status does a union quailfy as?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: nugsarenice]
    #527443 - 01/21/02 05:24 PM (20 years, 1 day ago)

****With all of those legalities, people who are uneducated cannot understand, and only interpret it as not being able to form a union****

That's why unions have representatives to speak for them. The reps are usually well educated in collective bargaining..if they are not then OH WELL...

****Imagine someone who could not speak english very well. ***

That's what the rep is for...in addition if you can't speak english what are you doing working in an american company? this is however a seperate subject.

****They would be lost, and certainly would not be part of any legal union, whereever those are. ****

The UAW have many that don't speak good english, but have good representation

****So in fact the goverment succeeded in destroying unions, even though it is illegal.****

Not True..the Government is pro-union..usually

***Not for lawyers like Invertigo though, I'm sure he would pass by all those loopholes, ***

ha ha..I'm not a lawyer (i still have my soul). I work in the Human Resources field and deal with unions everyday in the Auto industry.

****and be able to form a union and strike, to make sure that the workers get their fair pay. ****

Actually i can't belong to a union (I work for GM) and i'm in management..ie: the enemy..though i do come from a union background

****Anyway, what type of organizational tax status does a union quailfy as? ***

Are you talking dues or extra tax? The union has to pay dues to be in the union


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
    #527569 - 01/21/02 08:18 PM (20 years, 1 day ago)

So is it a non profit organization, and how can you start one. Can I switch one of my own non profits into a union?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: nugsarenice]
    #528017 - 01/22/02 09:53 AM (20 years, 1 day ago)

****So is it a non profit organization***

It's not that kind of organization. Non profit organizations are companies. Unions aren't. They pay taxes just like everyone else

****and how can you start one. ****

Well first you have to have a reason and enough people....if you're out to just get free shit and be lazy, it might be impossible....though i wonder at times

****Can I switch one of my own non profits into a union? ****

If it's your non-profit organization then i don't see why you'd want to?..you may want to check your tax status.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
    #528396 - 01/22/02 06:02 PM (20 years, 18 hours ago)

I see, then you could not operate a union as a non profit. It would have to be a business organization. It is more considered by the government as a group of lawyers, then a charitable organization. One of the last jobs I left, was a cook, and one thing I noticed over time is that there are health risks to the job. Most "grill workers, or broiler workers" have to deal with a high intake of grease and smoke. You can see the resin in the ducts, the same as one can see resin in a bong. I feel that those cooks should organize and strike for higher wages due to the fact that they are inflicting lung damage, worse then second hand smoke, or even smoking crack. That was definitely one of my old abandoned projects, that and the fact that the company repeatedly lied about profits, when I in fact can estimate their profits myself, I am not as easily fooled as the other workers, who had no concept of what a restaurant makes in a year. If moderately successful, between 500000 and 1000000, and if it was a mcdonald's, it would be over 2000000. And then to have the nerve to pay employees a little over minimum wage. Once I told an employee the aforementioned, and he laughed and said that that was highly unlikely. If their was an organized union, they could strike, and even debate new salaried positions for non managerial positions. So many things wrong with corporate restaurants.


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