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OfflinePhred
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Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #523135 - 01/17/02 02:33 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Rail_Gun writes:

"Iraq made war on Kuwait..."

So you admit that the war was STARTED by Iraq, not by America.

"...and we kicked their ass to protect our oil interests in the region."

Just as Germany STARTED World War II and America FINISHED it.

"Kuwait has a dictatorship just as bad if not worse than Iraq's. I used to know a kuwaiti man named Afif. He told me about what happens to anyone that criticizes the kuwaiti government, they dissapear. We kicked out one dictator to reinstall our oil friendly dictator."

The fact that Afif considers the Kuwaiti government to be as repressive as the Iraqi government does not change the FACT that America (as you admitted above) did not START the Gulf War. Some believe that it would have been better to let Iraq keep Kuwait, even though objective analysts universally regarded Kuwait to be merely a staging area for an invasion of southern Saudi Arabia, just as Poland was the staging area for Hitler's invasion of the rest of Europe.

Note that I am not saying here that it was necessarily the best thing for America to enter a war already in progress. It certainly was not correct for America to enter the war in progress in Viet Nam, for example. All I am saying here is that America did not START the Gulf War. It's not a question of being brainwashed by the media, or justifying it through political correctness or anything like that. It is simply acknowledging reality -- Iraq INVADED another country. The Coalition helped that other country expel the invaders.

This is not my OPINION, or my INTERPRETATION, or some media propaganda, this is WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED!

"It was a war America started to protect oil interests."

If you believe America's motive for assisting Kuwait in repelling the Iraqi invaders was to 'protect oil interests', then you should have written, "It was a war that America became involved in to protect oil interests."

You seem to have a radically different definition of the word "start" than the rest of the English-speaking world. Would you care to supply us with YOUR definition so we can decode your future posts?

pinky





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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
    #523236 - 01/17/02 06:35 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

****Are you denying that anything is made in the US? ****

No..what's giving you that idea?

****I'm not a fucking moron. Most electronics are not made here. ****

i never said you were a moron...

****This state I live in produces massive amounts of textiles, lots of clothes, lots of building materials................... What the fuck is wrong with you? *****

Textiles is pretty broad, clothes i understand, building materials i understand..i have no idea nor do i care what city you live in. You get awfully upset when someone questions your claims. Actually i'm quite proud that you buy 100% american made products...i think your lying but the thought is good.

****I told you I buy American when i can/ I avoid Chinese made shit, and i purchase other goods that are made elsewhere only when I can not find similiar items made here.****

good for you...i'm happyfor you. If i had a choice i would only buy american..unfortunatly there isn't an automobile made that is 100% american made, however i only buy from GM..then Ford..

****Are you gonna do this from now on just because I AM A FAN OF ABORTION? ****

what!? you mean question your claims? i'll always do that :)


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisiblePGF
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Posts: 8,642
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
    #523288 - 01/17/02 07:18 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

there are a lot of 100% american made autos you can buy RG.
They just happen to be classics/antiques.
I've owned a few in my life.

I'd rather buy a German car these days than buy GM or Ford. That is the exception.

".i think your lying but the thought is good. "

Why would I lie about that? I actually seek out american made items as much as possible. I would rather see my money go to some worker in this country than to a slave baron in the phillipines. And, I always avoid Chinese shit, except paper clips, which I use but never buy......you can not buy a paperclip that is not made in China by prisoners.


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
    #523486 - 01/17/02 12:04 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Now on a related not as the topic here goes: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20020111/ts/ford_restructuring_19.html

Friday January 11 11:44 AM ET

Ford to Cut 35,000 Jobs Worldwide

By ED GARSTEN, AP Auto Writer

DEARBORN, Mich. (AP) - Ford Motor Co. said Friday it would shed 35,000 jobs, close five plants and eliminate four vehicles in a restructuring that the CEO called ``painful but necessary.''

"We strayed from what got us to the top of the mountain, and it cost us greatly,'' chief executive William Clay Ford Jr. said Friday from headquarters of the world's second largest automaker.

The job cuts, including 22,000 in North America, amount to about 10 percent of Ford's overall work force.

The plants to be closed are in Edison, N.J. and Oakville, Ontario by 2004; Brook Park, Ohio, near Cleveland in either 2003 or 2004; Hazelwood, Mo., near St. Louis by an undetermined date; and Vulcan Forge in Dearborn, Mich., as soon as possible.

``We were really surprised,'' Hazelwood Mayor T.R. Carr said. ``We were not anticipating this kind of move by Ford.'' He estimated the economic impact on the St. Louis area will be up to $400 million per year.

Vehicles to be dropped are the Ford Escort, Mercury Cougar, Mercury Villager and Lincoln Continental.

Ford said it was taking a $4.1 billion one-time charge against earnings to pay for its plan.

The move also includes suspending bonuses for company managers and eliminating 401(k) matching contributions for employees.

In morning trading on the New York Stock Exchange (news - web sites), Ford shares were up 9 cents, at $15.38.

The job cuts include 12,000 manufacturing jobs and 3,500 previously announced early retirements for white collar workers.

Ford employs about 345,000 people worldwide. It has 170,000 employees in North America and operates 47 plants there.

``This sort of loss - a $100 million payroll, the ancillary vendors and suppliers that provide services and materials to this plant,'' Edison Mayor George Spadoro said. ``There's going to be a domino effect as a result.''

Tony McKinnie, 47, an assembly worker at a plant in Wayne, Mich., said he could understand the decision, given the current economy.

``I don't want to see anybody laid off,'' he said. ``I don't want to see plants closed. I want to see plants open, but I have to look at it from the company's perspective as well.''

For Ford, the sweeping restructuring represents a complete change from its position a year ago, when it reported a $6.67 billion profit for 2000.

In the third quarter of 2001, Ford lost $692 million and when it releases its fourth quarter financial statement Jan. 17, it is expected to report its third straight losing quarter.

``For most of the last decade the Ford Motor Company was on a roll,'' William Ford said. ``The great success we enjoyed may have caused us to underestimate the strength of our competitors.''

``We realize that some of the things that must be done will be painful,'' said Ford, a great-grandson of company founder Henry Ford. ``I can't begin to describe how sorry I am about that.''

Ford said he would accept no salary.

The automaker was hit hard by a self-inflicted financial wound in 2001 when it launched a $3 billion program to replace 13 million Firestone tires that were not recalled in the original recall that began in August 2000. The move resulted in the severing of Firestone's almost century-old relationship with Ford.

In July, much of Ford's top management was shaken up, and Nick Scheele, the man known for turning around Ford's European operations, took over North American operations.

The next month Ford announced it hoped to cut 4,000 to 5,000 salaried positions by offering early retirement and buyout packages.

By October, president and CEO Jacques Nasser was forced to resign and Ford replaced him as CEO. Scheele was elevated to chief operating officer.

Both Scheele and Ford have said the future for Ford is based on ``getting back to basics,'' in product development and improvements in quality and productivity.

Ford officials also have blamed high marketing costs related to an incentive price war for its difficult financial position.

________________

I think this job cut can be blamed on the Bush/Clinton/Bush globalist poicies which are devastating the American workers and making importers/manufacturers wealthy. Notice how Ford isn't cutting 20,000 mexican jobs. They like paying the mexicans next to nothing but when it comes to the workers in their own country they couldn't give a d@mn. Buy a Honda like I did, an American (ohio) made car!


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #523580 - 01/17/02 02:47 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Rail_Gun writes:

"Notice how Ford isn't cutting 20,000 mexican jobs. They like paying the mexicans next to nothing but when it comes to the workers in their own country they couldn't give a d@mn."

Read the article. It says Ford will cut 35,000 jobs. 22,000 of those jobs are in North America. North America includes the US and Canada and Mexico. Note how one of the five plants being closed is in Canada. And it is a damn BIG plant, too... one of Ford's biggest. Bigger by far than their Hazelwood MO plant and probably bigger than the Brook Park plant as well. So, the total of "workers in their own country" who will be out of a job will probably be at most 17,000... likely even less. Call it 45% of the 35,000. And for all you know, some of the 22,000 North American job cuts may be in Mexico, making that percentage figure even lower. The article doesn't say.

This is proportionate to the total percentage of American employees: roughly 170,000 of 345,000. Obviously the layoffs are being spread throughout the entire globe, not restricted to America.

Notice that none of the models being dropped from the lineup (all of them loser models that should have been dropped years ago) are manufactured in Mexico. That is why there is no reason to close the Mexican plants.

"Buy a Honda like I did, an American (ohio) made car! "

And the Ford models made in New Jersey, Michigan, Ohio and Montana are not American made? Ford employs a hell of a lot more American workers than Honda does.

"I think this job cut can be blamed on the Bush/Clinton/Bush globalist poicies which are devastating the American workers and making importers/manufacturers wealthy."

Ford was manufacturing outside of the US long before Bush/Clinton/Bush were elected. The Oakville Ontario plant has been open since before I was born, and Ford has been manufacturing in Europe for at least three decades that I can swear to, and probably longer than that.

As for making the manufacturers wealthy... it looks like William Clay Ford is not one who is being made particularly wealthy. Ford himself receives no salary, and company managers are receiving no bonuses.

pinky







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OfflineEllis Dee
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Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to China? [Re: Phred]
    #523605 - 01/17/02 03:25 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Fords are crummy cars anyway. It's too bad for the workers where ever they are, in Canada or the US. But if ford wants market share they're going to need to start building quality cars like they used to in their hay day.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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InvisiblePGF
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Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #524252 - 01/18/02 07:49 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

NAFTA was the end of rights for workers.

"Hey, these Americans want a minimum wage? FUCK 'EM, Mexicans can do the work for 1/10000000th of the cost." Large businesses do not care about people, they care about their profits.


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
    #524287 - 01/18/02 08:32 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

****NAFTA was the end of rights for workers. ****

NAFTA, unfortunatly in theory was a good idea, however you are correct a mexican worker is just happy to get minimum wage and the american workers and corporations are getting royaly screwed. However i'm surprised at all the "lets make everyone equal" people that are upset at this. The Candian and mexican economies pale in comparison to the united states and it was extremely stupid for us to agree with it...


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
    #524431 - 01/18/02 10:52 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Everyone seems to think that they know about exchange rates and how they are fair. And how it is fair to pay a pakistani worker a dollar a year for full time 6 days a week, 10 hours a day, sweatshirt knitting. And i say yes that would be fair, but does'nt seem odd that we bring in our own american security guards on american wages to build forts. To design little forts with electrifyied fences and guardtowers with manned turrets. That seems a little too precautionary for a legitimate business. What type of business do you see in america that sets up similar practices?
I mean even the world bank has a combined staff of about 10 security guards without guns! So i guess the workers are not happy. I mean the exchange is something like 300 to one or worse. The average rate of third world countries is over 100 to one. So I say let them say it is fair to me. And i say i will buy commodities from businesses who do not need that extra protection. Obviosly they could pay their workers more, if they wanted to, and the workers know that. And they know that a string of owners will come and go every 4 years to make enough money to retire on an island. So if i was a worker i might want to blow up the place. But then could'nt with that kind of protection. So why don't these crazy workers just go work for something else? yOu ask? I don't know, but if i had a choice i would definitely want something different.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: nugsarenice]
    #524486 - 01/18/02 11:47 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

WOW..eh ok


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
    #524653 - 01/18/02 02:31 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

You don't like my philosophy. Their are pictures of holocaust sweatshops, and pictures of the gap's sweatshops in hondorus, they have striking similarities, except that the gap does'nt provide housing and food. Cheap bastards. Anyways I don't buy from the gap because of that. Most factories do not have electrified fences and manned outposts. Nike has the same problems with security in their korean and vietnamese factories. The workers have very weird conditions. There is like this gestapo police who assasanate anyone planning a strike, or just fire them. But still if the Foot Locker stores just did'nt have nike shoes one day, then people would definitely become suspicious. Like Coca Cola, their mexican workers went on strike, so now i don't drink soda at all. I think it is the worker's wish. Like even though the sales of the company determine their employment. They would like to draw attention to the fact of discrepencies in workers wage to the millions that ceo's make. If you have heard of any other strikes just let me know. Maybe we are of different opinion. But when i hear strike, i think i don't want to support that greedy entrepreneur behind the business. Some people think like, well how will the poor mexicans and hondorans survive without us buying the products from their employment, and i think they will just farm like the rest of the poor ass mother fuckers in third world countries.

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InvisiblePGF
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Registered: 07/20/00
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Loc: Malaysia
Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
    #524723 - 01/18/02 03:45 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Innvertigo, do mexicans (in Mexico) even have a minimum wage?!!!
These other third world countries have the equivilent of slave labor.
I mean, I understand that the US had to start somewhere and go through
an evolutionary process before worker's rights were won and implemented.
But, the conditions of some of these sweat shops make The Jungle look like a fairy tale.


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
    #524746 - 01/18/02 04:10 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Mexico has it pretty well, compared to to the above mentioned i mentioned. They are getting a good 10 cents an hour compared to the gap's wage of 7 cents. when your only making cents a cent is good. I mean in percentages that is a 30 percent increase in wage or something like that. How would you like a 30 percent increase in wage. All due to Nafta too. What a beautiful agreement.

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InvisiblePGF
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: nugsarenice]
    #524755 - 01/18/02 04:17 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

yeah corporations are greedy.

Hormel workers went on strike in North Dakota at a SPAM plant to get a dollars raise and Hormel and the company forced them out. 98% of strikers lost their jobs permanately.

So, don't eat SPAM.


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
    #524765 - 01/18/02 04:24 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Who really eats spam? I mean those little corned beef and pickled sausage cans are the most disgusting things produced. I guess if you are a meat lover then it would be appealing. But still they charge ridiculous amounts of money for it.

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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: nugsarenice]
    #524809 - 01/18/02 05:13 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

I eat SPAM when I go camping. I don't really eat it other than that. It's good to fry it and make sandwiches out of it hot though.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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InvisiblePGF
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Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #524860 - 01/18/02 06:06 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

SPAM is parts.

I have not had spam since I was 5. I think it tasted OK, but once I realized what it was, I was repulsed. What's with the stalker thread in otd? Everyone's attacking you like you rape babies or something. Where'd you see/meet this woman? I used to have to track people down for a living. Have you used a reverse phne nuber look-up?


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
    #524879 - 01/18/02 06:30 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

PGF, I noticed that that thread got a pretty crummy reception. I don't know whats wrong with people to criticize me like that. She's an old frind I want to get in touch with and I need her last name to track her down through her college, Baldwin Wallace. It's no biggie but I really don't want to talk to her family.

PS Yes I tried the reverse phone number look up, but to no avail.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Edited by Ellis Dee (01/18/02 07:04 PM)

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InvisiblePGF
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Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #525122 - 01/18/02 10:45 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Sometimes when one person criticizes it can cause a chain reaction and everyone else who posts in the thread just goes along mindlessly. It's a mob mentality that is only fun when you use it to your advantage.

Someone should call and say they are with the phone company...
"ma'am is this 555-5555?"
"why yes, it is"
"this is the Jackson's residents?"
"No, it is the ****** residents"
--------------------------
that could work.


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
    #525248 - 01/19/02 01:11 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

as a matter of fact mexico does have a minimum wage.....it's "assumed" that employers will pay it. The mexicans in the UAW have unions, however are willing to settle for far less then that of the american worker which in a way totally defeats the whole perpose of a union (you can thank NAFTA for that). Unfortunatly a union in one country is not that similar to that in another. Back in the 70's and 80's the UAW of Canada where paid different from that of their brothers in the US. This makes it difficult for bargaining in the US when countries like Canada and Mexico are willing to settle. Mexico is not as third world as you my think and if you don't believe me just wait a few years your job might be there.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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