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 Ellis Dee
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 Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to China? 
#521782 - 01/15/02 10:45 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think it's because his campaign contributors will make big $.
Bush is just the same as Clinton on these trade issues. They're the same evil. Bush and Clinton are two peas in the same pod.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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 carbonhoots
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 Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to China? [Re: Ellis Dee]
#521792 - 01/15/02 10:57 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Capitalism. It's revolves around capital holders.
They make more money if they pay their workers a starvation wage.
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-I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me
CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES
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Ellis Dee
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to China? [Re: carbonhoots]
#521794 - 01/15/02 10:59 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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You hit the nail on the head. It's too bad you're so right....
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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dk138
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to China? *DELETED* [Re: Ellis Dee]
#521832 - 01/15/02 11:33 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by dk138
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"And the worms ate into his brains."
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Hiroller
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to China? [Re: dk138]
#522148 - 01/16/02 07:50 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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I believe capitalism is correct as well. The government has catered to the business leaders for a pretty long time, even starting wars to protect American business men's interests. And companies always head to wear they can get more production at a cheaper price. Remember, the man who dies with the most money wins.
And I doubt that American will ever arm itself and overthrow the government. We possess a sizable middle-class in our country that acts as a buffer to temper most radical thought because it allows an appearance of vertical movement in the class brackets. People almost never rebel when they are contented and if goods are cheap that means people(who still possess their jobs) can buy more for less. Always a happy thought in a country obsessed in material goods.
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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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nugsarenice
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to China? [Re: Hiroller]
#522341 - 01/16/02 11:21 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Does that mean we accepted china into the wto. I thought that we were supposed to be liberating the country from oppressed socialism. But no we just cater to the leaders over there. Buy all their heroin at wholesale and labor, and make billions off of it. It is completely ridiculous. I am a pacifist most of the time, but sometimes I think I might want to instigate a war with china, just to get all that oil, I mean what are we waiting for?
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Phred
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Hiroller]
#522507 - 01/16/02 01:54 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hiroller writes:
"The government has catered to the business leaders for a pretty long time, even starting wars to protect American business men's interests."
Which wars has the American government STARTED to protect America's business interests?
pinky
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Ellis Dee
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Phred]
#522523 - 01/16/02 02:07 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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pinky, the Gulf War comes immediatly to mind.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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PGF
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Ellis Dee]
#522708 - 01/16/02 05:26 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yup, Gulf War was all about oil, no doubts here. Panama, to a certain extent, was also about business interests.
Personally, if I see something with a made in china tag on it, I do not buy it.
China has an attrocious human rights record. Plus, I like to support our own workers as much as I can.
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***The Real Shroomery nigger
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Innvertigo
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 Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
#522791 - 01/16/02 07:19 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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what do you buy that is 100% american?
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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PGF
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
#522798 - 01/16/02 07:23 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Believe it or not, America still manufactures t-shirts, jeans, food, textiles and all kinds of other shit. I avoid Chinese goods and buy products from other countries if I can not find an American made product.
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***The Real Shroomery nigger
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Innvertigo
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
#522813 - 01/16/02 07:32 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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like?..what cars?, radio's?, computers??? what kinds of textiles and other shit?
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Ellis Dee
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
#522831 - 01/16/02 07:49 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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The US of A has a thriving textile industry being operated by prison laborers...
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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PGF
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
#522833 - 01/16/02 07:51 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Are you denying that anything is made in the US?
I'm not a fucking moron. Most electronics are not made here.
This state I live in produces massive amounts of textiles, lots of clothes,
lots of building materials................... What the fuck is wrong with you?
I told you I buy American when i can/ I avoid Chinese made shit, and i purchase other goods that are made elsewhere only when I can not find similiar items made here.
Are you gonna do this from now on just because I AM A FAN OF ABORTION?
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***The Real Shroomery nigger
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PGF
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Ellis Dee]
#522841 - 01/16/02 07:57 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Are you actually comparing our prison labor forcee to China's?
ha
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***The Real Shroomery nigger
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Ellis Dee
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
#522869 - 01/16/02 08:19 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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In reply to:
Are you actually comparing our prison labor forcee to China's?
ha
Well we both use slave labor.
Amendment XIII
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
"...except as a punishment for crime..."
For political crimes like filling in a low spot in your yard, possessing a feather from a road kill hawk, et cetera you can be put onto a
Federal prison "plantation" and forced to work. Then there are the States: Iowa, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Florida, Minnesota to name just a few, very few.
I'm not saying this is bad though one of the links is for an advocacy group. I'm just pointing out that a lot of what is proudly made in America is made by slave laborers (prison inmates).
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Edited by Ellis Dee (01/16/02 08:47 PM)
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PGF
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Ellis Dee]
#522887 - 01/16/02 08:52 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Te difference is our prison labor is not FORCED.
It is 100% voluntary.
Look it up.
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***The Real Shroomery nigger
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Phred
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Ellis Dee]
#522955 - 01/16/02 10:21 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Rail_Gun writes:
"pinky, the Gulf War comes immediatly to mind. "
The American government did not START the Gulf War. Iraq did by invading Kuwait, a US ally. The Kuwaitis asked for help and got it from a COALITION of forces from many UN countries. Most of the troops were American, but it was not strictly speaking AMERICA vs. Iraq, it was the UN vs Iraq. Am I the only one that remembers this? It happened just a decade ago, after all.
Besides, the relevant point here is that the reaction of the Coalition was just that, a REACTION. Iraq was the country who STARTED the war.
Hiroller claims that the American government has STARTED wars (note the use of the plural -- i.e. at least two) to protect American businessmen. I asked him to give me an example of wars that the American government INITIATED.
pinky
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Ellis Dee
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Phred]
#522971 - 01/16/02 10:42 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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>>>The American government did not START the Gulf War. Iraq did by invading Kuwait, a US ally.
Now that's bunk. Iraq made war on Kuwait and we kicked their ass to protect our oil interests in the region.
Kuwait has a dictatorship just as bad if not worse than Iraq's. I used to know a kuwaiti man named Afif. He told me about what happens to anyone that criticizes the kuwaiti government, they dissapear. We kicked out one dictator to reinstall our oil friendly dictator. It was a war America started to protect oil intersts. Any argument you make to the contrary is merely the justification for the protection of our oil interests, because it's not PC to say that we send our boys to kill and die for oil.
BTW, I remember it well myself as well. Maybe you just remember what the media told you(the politicians justifying the war with your arguments, bush saying "Iraq will not be permitted to annex kuwait," etcetera). But if you think about it and why we went there at all it's all about oil, it's pretty obvious.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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carbonhoots
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 Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Phred]
#523090 - 01/17/02 01:04 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Gotta agree with rail gun in this one.
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-I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me
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Phred
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Ellis Dee]
#523135 - 01/17/02 02:33 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Rail_Gun writes:
"Iraq made war on Kuwait..."
So you admit that the war was STARTED by Iraq, not by America.
"...and we kicked their ass to protect our oil interests in the region."
Just as Germany STARTED World War II and America FINISHED it.
"Kuwait has a dictatorship just as bad if not worse than Iraq's. I used to know a kuwaiti man named Afif. He told me about what happens to anyone that criticizes the kuwaiti government, they dissapear. We kicked out one dictator to reinstall our oil friendly dictator."
The fact that Afif considers the Kuwaiti government to be as repressive as the Iraqi government does not change the FACT that America (as you admitted above) did not START the Gulf War. Some believe that it would have been better to let Iraq keep Kuwait, even though objective analysts universally regarded Kuwait to be merely a staging area for an invasion of southern Saudi Arabia, just as Poland was the staging area for Hitler's invasion of the rest of Europe.
Note that I am not saying here that it was necessarily the best thing for America to enter a war already in progress. It certainly was not correct for America to enter the war in progress in Viet Nam, for example. All I am saying here is that America did not START the Gulf War. It's not a question of being brainwashed by the media, or justifying it through political correctness or anything like that. It is simply acknowledging reality -- Iraq INVADED another country. The Coalition helped that other country expel the invaders.
This is not my OPINION, or my INTERPRETATION, or some media propaganda, this is WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED!
"It was a war America started to protect oil interests."
If you believe America's motive for assisting Kuwait in repelling the Iraqi invaders was to 'protect oil interests', then you should have written, "It was a war that America became involved in to protect oil interests."
You seem to have a radically different definition of the word "start" than the rest of the English-speaking world. Would you care to supply us with YOUR definition so we can decode your future posts?
pinky
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Innvertigo
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
#523236 - 01/17/02 06:35 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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****Are you denying that anything is made in the US? ****
No..what's giving you that idea?
****I'm not a fucking moron. Most electronics are not made here. ****
i never said you were a moron...
****This state I live in produces massive amounts of textiles, lots of clothes, lots of building materials................... What the fuck is wrong with you? *****
Textiles is pretty broad, clothes i understand, building materials i understand..i have no idea nor do i care what city you live in. You get awfully upset when someone questions your claims. Actually i'm quite proud that you buy 100% american made products...i think your lying but the thought is good.
****I told you I buy American when i can/ I avoid Chinese made shit, and i purchase other goods that are made elsewhere only when I can not find similiar items made here.****
good for you...i'm happyfor you. If i had a choice i would only buy american..unfortunatly there isn't an automobile made that is 100% american made, however i only buy from GM..then Ford..
****Are you gonna do this from now on just because I AM A FAN OF ABORTION? ****
what!? you mean question your claims? i'll always do that :)
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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PGF
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
#523288 - 01/17/02 07:18 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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there are a lot of 100% american made autos you can buy RG.
They just happen to be classics/antiques.
I've owned a few in my life.
I'd rather buy a German car these days than buy GM or Ford. That is the exception.
".i think your lying but the thought is good. "
Why would I lie about that? I actually seek out american made items as much as possible. I would rather see my money go to some worker in this country than to a slave baron in the phillipines. And, I always avoid Chinese shit, except paper clips, which I use but never buy......you can not buy a paperclip that is not made in China by prisoners.
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***The Real Shroomery nigger
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Ellis Dee
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
#523486 - 01/17/02 12:04 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Now on a related not as the topic here goes: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20020111/ts/ford_restructuring_19.html
Friday January 11 11:44 AM ET
Ford to Cut 35,000 Jobs Worldwide
By ED GARSTEN, AP Auto Writer
DEARBORN, Mich. (AP) - Ford Motor Co. said Friday it would shed 35,000 jobs, close five plants and eliminate four vehicles in a restructuring that the CEO called ``painful but necessary.''
"We strayed from what got us to the top of the mountain, and it cost us greatly,'' chief executive William Clay Ford Jr. said Friday from headquarters of the world's second largest automaker.
The job cuts, including 22,000 in North America, amount to about 10 percent of Ford's overall work force.
The plants to be closed are in Edison, N.J. and Oakville, Ontario by 2004; Brook Park, Ohio, near Cleveland in either 2003 or 2004; Hazelwood, Mo., near St. Louis by an undetermined date; and Vulcan Forge in Dearborn, Mich., as soon as possible.
``We were really surprised,'' Hazelwood Mayor T.R. Carr said. ``We were not anticipating this kind of move by Ford.'' He estimated the economic impact on the St. Louis area will be up to $400 million per year.
Vehicles to be dropped are the Ford Escort, Mercury Cougar, Mercury Villager and Lincoln Continental.
Ford said it was taking a $4.1 billion one-time charge against earnings to pay for its plan.
The move also includes suspending bonuses for company managers and eliminating 401(k) matching contributions for employees.
In morning trading on the New York Stock Exchange (news - web sites), Ford shares were up 9 cents, at $15.38.
The job cuts include 12,000 manufacturing jobs and 3,500 previously announced early retirements for white collar workers.
Ford employs about 345,000 people worldwide. It has 170,000 employees in North America and operates 47 plants there.
``This sort of loss - a $100 million payroll, the ancillary vendors and suppliers that provide services and materials to this plant,'' Edison Mayor George Spadoro said. ``There's going to be a domino effect as a result.''
Tony McKinnie, 47, an assembly worker at a plant in Wayne, Mich., said he could understand the decision, given the current economy.
``I don't want to see anybody laid off,'' he said. ``I don't want to see plants closed. I want to see plants open, but I have to look at it from the company's perspective as well.''
For Ford, the sweeping restructuring represents a complete change from its position a year ago, when it reported a $6.67 billion profit for 2000.
In the third quarter of 2001, Ford lost $692 million and when it releases its fourth quarter financial statement Jan. 17, it is expected to report its third straight losing quarter.
``For most of the last decade the Ford Motor Company was on a roll,'' William Ford said. ``The great success we enjoyed may have caused us to underestimate the strength of our competitors.''
``We realize that some of the things that must be done will be painful,'' said Ford, a great-grandson of company founder Henry Ford. ``I can't begin to describe how sorry I am about that.''
Ford said he would accept no salary.
The automaker was hit hard by a self-inflicted financial wound in 2001 when it launched a $3 billion program to replace 13 million Firestone tires that were not recalled in the original recall that began in August 2000. The move resulted in the severing of Firestone's almost century-old relationship with Ford.
In July, much of Ford's top management was shaken up, and Nick Scheele, the man known for turning around Ford's European operations, took over North American operations.
The next month Ford announced it hoped to cut 4,000 to 5,000 salaried positions by offering early retirement and buyout packages.
By October, president and CEO Jacques Nasser was forced to resign and Ford replaced him as CEO. Scheele was elevated to chief operating officer.
Both Scheele and Ford have said the future for Ford is based on ``getting back to basics,'' in product development and improvements in quality and productivity.
Ford officials also have blamed high marketing costs related to an incentive price war for its difficult financial position.
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I think this job cut can be blamed on the Bush/Clinton/Bush globalist poicies which are devastating the American workers and making importers/manufacturers wealthy. Notice how Ford isn't cutting 20,000 mexican jobs. They like paying the mexicans next to nothing but when it comes to the workers in their own country they couldn't give a d@mn. Buy a Honda like I did, an American (ohio) made car!
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Phred
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Ellis Dee]
#523580 - 01/17/02 02:47 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Rail_Gun writes:
"Notice how Ford isn't cutting 20,000 mexican jobs. They like paying the mexicans next to nothing but when it comes to the workers in their own country they couldn't give a d@mn."
Read the article. It says Ford will cut 35,000 jobs. 22,000 of those jobs are in North America. North America includes the US and Canada and Mexico. Note how one of the five plants being closed is in Canada. And it is a damn BIG plant, too... one of Ford's biggest. Bigger by far than their Hazelwood MO plant and probably bigger than the Brook Park plant as well. So, the total of "workers in their own country" who will be out of a job will probably be at most 17,000... likely even less. Call it 45% of the 35,000. And for all you know, some of the 22,000 North American job cuts may be in Mexico, making that percentage figure even lower. The article doesn't say.
This is proportionate to the total percentage of American employees: roughly 170,000 of 345,000. Obviously the layoffs are being spread throughout the entire globe, not restricted to America.
Notice that none of the models being dropped from the lineup (all of them loser models that should have been dropped years ago) are manufactured in Mexico. That is why there is no reason to close the Mexican plants.
"Buy a Honda like I did, an American (ohio) made car! "
And the Ford models made in New Jersey, Michigan, Ohio and Montana are not American made? Ford employs a hell of a lot more American workers than Honda does.
"I think this job cut can be blamed on the Bush/Clinton/Bush globalist poicies which are devastating the American workers and making importers/manufacturers wealthy."
Ford was manufacturing outside of the US long before Bush/Clinton/Bush were elected. The Oakville Ontario plant has been open since before I was born, and Ford has been manufacturing in Europe for at least three decades that I can swear to, and probably longer than that.
As for making the manufacturers wealthy... it looks like William Clay Ford is not one who is being made particularly wealthy. Ford himself receives no salary, and company managers are receiving no bonuses.
pinky
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Ellis Dee
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Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to China? [Re: Phred]
#523605 - 01/17/02 03:25 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Fords are crummy cars anyway. It's too bad for the workers where ever they are, in Canada or the US. But if ford wants market share they're going to need to start building quality cars like they used to in their hay day.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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PGF
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Ellis Dee]
#524252 - 01/18/02 07:49 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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NAFTA was the end of rights for workers.
"Hey, these Americans want a minimum wage? FUCK 'EM, Mexicans can do the work for 1/10000000th of the cost." Large businesses do not care about people, they care about their profits.
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***The Real Shroomery nigger
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Innvertigo
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
#524287 - 01/18/02 08:32 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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****NAFTA was the end of rights for workers. ****
NAFTA, unfortunatly in theory was a good idea, however you are correct a mexican worker is just happy to get minimum wage and the american workers and corporations are getting royaly screwed. However i'm surprised at all the "lets make everyone equal" people that are upset at this. The Candian and mexican economies pale in comparison to the united states and it was extremely stupid for us to agree with it...
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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nugsarenice
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
#524431 - 01/18/02 10:52 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Everyone seems to think that they know about exchange rates and how they are fair. And how it is fair to pay a pakistani worker a dollar a year for full time 6 days a week, 10 hours a day, sweatshirt knitting. And i say yes that would be fair, but does'nt seem odd that we bring in our own american security guards on american wages to build forts. To design little forts with electrifyied fences and guardtowers with manned turrets. That seems a little too precautionary for a legitimate business. What type of business do you see in america that sets up similar practices?
I mean even the world bank has a combined staff of about 10 security guards without guns! So i guess the workers are not happy. I mean the exchange is something like 300 to one or worse. The average rate of third world countries is over 100 to one. So I say let them say it is fair to me. And i say i will buy commodities from businesses who do not need that extra protection. Obviosly they could pay their workers more, if they wanted to, and the workers know that. And they know that a string of owners will come and go every 4 years to make enough money to retire on an island. So if i was a worker i might want to blow up the place. But then could'nt with that kind of protection. So why don't these crazy workers just go work for something else? yOu ask? I don't know, but if i had a choice i would definitely want something different.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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 Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: nugsarenice]
#524486 - 01/18/02 11:47 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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WOW..eh ok
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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nugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
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Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
#524653 - 01/18/02 02:31 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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You don't like my philosophy. Their are pictures of holocaust sweatshops, and pictures of the gap's sweatshops in hondorus, they have striking similarities, except that the gap does'nt provide housing and food. Cheap bastards. Anyways I don't buy from the gap because of that. Most factories do not have electrified fences and manned outposts. Nike has the same problems with security in their korean and vietnamese factories. The workers have very weird conditions. There is like this gestapo police who assasanate anyone planning a strike, or just fire them. But still if the Foot Locker stores just did'nt have nike shoes one day, then people would definitely become suspicious. Like Coca Cola, their mexican workers went on strike, so now i don't drink soda at all. I think it is the worker's wish. Like even though the sales of the company determine their employment. They would like to draw attention to the fact of discrepencies in workers wage to the millions that ceo's make. If you have heard of any other strikes just let me know. Maybe we are of different opinion. But when i hear strike, i think i don't want to support that greedy entrepreneur behind the business. Some people think like, well how will the poor mexicans and hondorans survive without us buying the products from their employment, and i think they will just farm like the rest of the poor ass mother fuckers in third world countries.
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PGF
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Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
#524723 - 01/18/02 03:45 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Innvertigo, do mexicans (in Mexico) even have a minimum wage?!!!
These other third world countries have the equivilent of slave labor.
I mean, I understand that the US had to start somewhere and go through
an evolutionary process before worker's rights were won and implemented.
But, the conditions of some of these sweat shops make The Jungle look like a fairy tale.
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***The Real Shroomery nigger
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nugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,442
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
#524746 - 01/18/02 04:10 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mexico has it pretty well, compared to to the above mentioned i mentioned. They are getting a good 10 cents an hour compared to the gap's wage of 7 cents. when your only making cents a cent is good. I mean in percentages that is a 30 percent increase in wage or something like that. How would you like a 30 percent increase in wage. All due to Nafta too. What a beautiful agreement.
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PGF
square
Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: nugsarenice]
#524755 - 01/18/02 04:17 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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yeah corporations are greedy.
Hormel workers went on strike in North Dakota at a SPAM plant to get a dollars raise and Hormel and the company forced them out. 98% of strikers lost their jobs permanately.
So, don't eat SPAM.
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***The Real Shroomery nigger
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nugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
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Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
#524765 - 01/18/02 04:24 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Who really eats spam? I mean those little corned beef and pickled sausage cans are the most disgusting things produced. I guess if you are a meat lover then it would be appealing. But still they charge ridiculous amounts of money for it.
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Ellis Dee
Archangel
Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: nugsarenice]
#524809 - 01/18/02 05:13 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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I eat SPAM when I go camping. I don't really eat it other than that. It's good to fry it and make sandwiches out of it hot though.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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PGF
square
Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Ellis Dee]
#524860 - 01/18/02 06:06 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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SPAM is parts.
I have not had spam since I was 5. I think it tasted OK, but once I realized what it was, I was repulsed. What's with the stalker thread in otd? Everyone's attacking you like you rape babies or something. Where'd you see/meet this woman? I used to have to track people down for a living. Have you used a reverse phne nuber look-up?
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***The Real Shroomery nigger
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Ellis Dee
Archangel
Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
#524879 - 01/18/02 06:30 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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PGF, I noticed that that thread got a pretty crummy reception. I don't know whats wrong with people to criticize me like that. She's an old frind I want to get in touch with and I need her last name to track her down through her college, Baldwin Wallace. It's no biggie but I really don't want to talk to her family.
PS Yes I tried the reverse phone number look up, but to no avail.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Edited by Ellis Dee (01/18/02 07:04 PM)
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PGF
square
Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Ellis Dee]
#525122 - 01/18/02 10:45 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sometimes when one person criticizes it can cause a chain reaction and everyone else who posts in the thread just goes along mindlessly. It's a mob mentality that is only fun when you use it to your advantage.
Someone should call and say they are with the phone company...
"ma'am is this 555-5555?"
"why yes, it is"
"this is the Jackson's residents?"
"No, it is the ****** residents"
--------------------------
that could work.
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***The Real Shroomery nigger
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
#525248 - 01/19/02 01:11 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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as a matter of fact mexico does have a minimum wage.....it's "assumed" that employers will pay it. The mexicans in the UAW have unions, however are willing to settle for far less then that of the american worker which in a way totally defeats the whole perpose of a union (you can thank NAFTA for that). Unfortunatly a union in one country is not that similar to that in another. Back in the 70's and 80's the UAW of Canada where paid different from that of their brothers in the US. This makes it difficult for bargaining in the US when countries like Canada and Mexico are willing to settle. Mexico is not as third world as you my think and if you don't believe me just wait a few years your job might be there.
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
#525250 - 01/19/02 01:14 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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North Dakota isn't a right-to-work state and the strikers should have known that it is legal for the employer to do that. In a right-to-work state the emploter would have been forced to bargain or be slapped with an unfair labor practice.
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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nugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
#525297 - 01/19/02 02:50 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Which state has a rightful state to organize? I know that some companies persuade employers not to join unions, and that there is no need, and if you were to form a union you would be fired, all in the pretense of the state law. Where if which you would not even qualify for unemployment pay. That is kind of scary. Like why would they put preemtive measures like that in place, for no reason. Whichever company does things like that, take for example K-Mart, with their 70's strikes, after which they changed their name from Kale Market to K-Market for short. And moved their whole clothes division to from the east shore to small coastal islands where the change really did take effect after 20 years or so. Then noone would know of the strikes from the west and global market, and the company would survive. Things like that are completely normal, and in no way based on the fact that the u.s. government can provide cheaper labor outside of the country because of any unequal tax brackets.
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PGF
square
Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: nugsarenice]
#525383 - 01/19/02 07:08 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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North Carolina is a right to hire, right to fire state.
Join a union and get fired. Just ask anyone who worked at Food Lion during the early 90's what happens when they try to organize.....they get canned. Cheap labor? Mexico or the south.
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***The Real Shroomery nigger
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
#525424 - 01/19/02 09:09 AM (23 years, 3 months ago) |
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****North Carolina is a right to hire, right to fire state. Join a union and get fired. Just ask anyone who worked at Food Lion during the early 90's ****
NC is a right to work state. Right to work states are not generally states of high industrial businesses. A Right to Work law secures the right of employees to decide for themselves whether or not to join or financially support a union. However, employees who work in the railway or airline industries or on a federal enclave may not be protected by a Right to Work law. It's harder to organize in these states because either a. they can't afford unions or b. the corporations are professional as in texas and the computer industry. Food lion wasn't fired because they wanted to organize because under the Wagner Act a person has the right to choose whether or not to join a union.
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: nugsarenice]
#525425 - 01/19/02 09:14 AM (23 years, 3 months ago) |
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****Which state has a rightful state to organize? ****
Every state has the right to organize if they see fit..except federal employees. It's illegal for federal employees to strike..see PATCO to see an example (air traffic controllers)
****I know that some companies persuade employers not to join unions, and that there is no need, and if you were to form a union you would be fired,****
There are some companies that speak against unions which is perfectly legal, however it is illegal to say that you will fire if a union is form in any state
****Where if which you would not even qualify for unemployment pay.****
That's not true
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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nugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
#525500 - 01/19/02 11:21 AM (23 years, 3 months ago) |
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Maybe not true. But i was sure under the impression that you could be fired for joining a union. Because like that emplyers say, most unions are only trying to rip you off on money, they are just con-artists, so if you were to organize a strike from one of these non-justified unions, then maybe you could be fired. Right?
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: nugsarenice]
#525549 - 01/19/02 12:14 PM (23 years, 3 months ago) |
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****Maybe not true. But i was sure under the impression that you could be fired for joining a union.****
The National Labor Relations Act (Wagner Act) gives private sector employees the right to organize without the fear of termination..it's the law
**Because like that emplyers say, most unions are only trying to rip you off on money**
A lot of employers say that and a lot of them are correct...but it's legal to say it
****so if you were to organize a strike from one of these non-justified unions, then maybe you could be fired. Right? ****
keep in mind that just because you say "we're unionizing" it's not a done deal. A proper union with representatives and bargaining has to take place. A strike by employees before a union is formed is grounds for termination and perfectly legal. Believe it or not a majority maybe upwards of 90% of bargaining is done without strikes.
can ya tell i do this for a living yet?
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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PGF
square
Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
#525745 - 01/19/02 06:09 PM (23 years, 3 months ago) |
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innvertigo, trust me. I worked for FL's attorneys and we effectively destroyed the union for food lion employees. Trust me on this one.
"
NC is a right to work state. Right to work states are not generally states of high industrial businesses."
We are the textiles industry in the US.
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***The Real Shroomery nigger
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
#526175 - 01/20/02 12:56 AM (23 years, 3 months ago) |
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****innvertigo, trust me. I worked for FL's attorneys and we effectively destroyed the union for food lion employees.****
Then you should know about the NLRA. If not you should if you're going into law. The Food lion union was NOT dispelled for forming a union. That my friend is against the law...ask your attorny friends.
****We are the textiles industry in the US. ***
NC isn't primarily a industrial state. Sure they have industries present but unlike states like Michigan, Ohio, New York, Illinois..etc. their primary focus is not industrial
go to this link: http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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PGF
square
Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
#526318 - 01/20/02 03:55 AM (23 years, 3 months ago) |
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Everyone does not always follow the letter of the law.
Food Lion employees who were found handing out pro-union
leaflets were harassed and fired under different pretense.
The union backed some attorneys who started a class action lawsuit
to investigate employees who were made to work off the clock.
The class actions were split into multi-district litigation. Only a handful
(maybe 12 individuals out of 1000) made it to trial.
The allegations were 100% correct, but the plaintiff's lost in the long haul.
This crap took up 4 years of my life. I bet I could get in trouble somehow for talking about it.
Anyway, our attorneys told FL corporate that we could keep the union out of their store. Period.
I was there. And, we did it.
Fl effectively forced out at least one union chain in the south because of it's ability to undercut their prices. Personally, I stay away from FL.
FL is fiercly anti-union. When the union first started their capaign in the stores, FL countered by counseling each and every staff member. They pitted pro-union staff against regular staff. ......... they did lots of things to keep the union out. ....... sure, it wasn't Matewan, but it was a company fight against the unions.
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***The Real Shroomery nigger
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: PGF]
#527149 - 01/21/02 06:38 AM (23 years, 3 months ago) |
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****Food Lion employees who were found handing out pro-union leaflets were harassed and fired under different pretense.****
Well handing out pro-union leaflets during work hours or on the premises of the business is grounds for dismmisal in most businesses. Especialy in a right to work state where it is harder to unionize and lacks the idustrial base.
****Anyway, our attorneys told FL corporate that we could keep the union out of their store. Period. I was there. And, we did it. ***
which is perfectly legal. A business can discorage unionization as long as they don't use that as a determination for hire/fire
****They pitted pro-union staff against regular staff. ......... they did lots of things to keep the union out****
this is legal.
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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nugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
#527357 - 01/21/02 01:03 PM (23 years, 3 months ago) |
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With all of those legalities, people who are uneducated cannot understand, and only interpret it as not being able to form a union. Imagine someone who could not speak english very well. They would be lost, and certainly would not be part of any legal union, whereever those are. So in fact the goverment succeeded in destroying unions, even though it is illegal. Not for lawyers like Invertigo though, I'm sure he would pass by all those loopholes, and be able to form a union and strike, to make sure that the workers get their fair pay. Anyway, what type of organizational tax status does a union quailfy as?
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: nugsarenice]
#527443 - 01/21/02 03:24 PM (23 years, 3 months ago) |
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****With all of those legalities, people who are uneducated cannot understand, and only interpret it as not being able to form a union****
That's why unions have representatives to speak for them. The reps are usually well educated in collective bargaining..if they are not then OH WELL...
****Imagine someone who could not speak english very well. ***
That's what the rep is for...in addition if you can't speak english what are you doing working in an american company? this is however a seperate subject.
****They would be lost, and certainly would not be part of any legal union, whereever those are. ****
The UAW have many that don't speak good english, but have good representation
****So in fact the goverment succeeded in destroying unions, even though it is illegal.****
Not True..the Government is pro-union..usually
***Not for lawyers like Invertigo though, I'm sure he would pass by all those loopholes, ***
ha ha..I'm not a lawyer (i still have my soul). I work in the Human Resources field and deal with unions everyday in the Auto industry.
****and be able to form a union and strike, to make sure that the workers get their fair pay. ****
Actually i can't belong to a union (I work for GM) and i'm in management..ie: the enemy..though i do come from a union background
****Anyway, what type of organizational tax status does a union quailfy as? ***
Are you talking dues or extra tax? The union has to pay dues to be in the union
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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nugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,442
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
#527569 - 01/21/02 06:18 PM (23 years, 3 months ago) |
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So is it a non profit organization, and how can you start one. Can I switch one of my own non profits into a union?
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: nugsarenice]
#528017 - 01/22/02 07:53 AM (23 years, 3 months ago) |
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****So is it a non profit organization***
It's not that kind of organization. Non profit organizations are companies. Unions aren't. They pay taxes just like everyone else
****and how can you start one. ****
Well first you have to have a reason and enough people....if you're out to just get free shit and be lazy, it might be impossible....though i wonder at times
****Can I switch one of my own non profits into a union? ****
If it's your non-profit organization then i don't see why you'd want to?..you may want to check your tax status.
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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nugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
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Re: Why does G.W. Bush want to send your job to Ch [Re: Innvertigo]
#528396 - 01/22/02 04:02 PM (23 years, 3 months ago) |
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I see, then you could not operate a union as a non profit. It would have to be a business organization. It is more considered by the government as a group of lawyers, then a charitable organization. One of the last jobs I left, was a cook, and one thing I noticed over time is that there are health risks to the job. Most "grill workers, or broiler workers" have to deal with a high intake of grease and smoke. You can see the resin in the ducts, the same as one can see resin in a bong. I feel that those cooks should organize and strike for higher wages due to the fact that they are inflicting lung damage, worse then second hand smoke, or even smoking crack. That was definitely one of my old abandoned projects, that and the fact that the company repeatedly lied about profits, when I in fact can estimate their profits myself, I am not as easily fooled as the other workers, who had no concept of what a restaurant makes in a year. If moderately successful, between 500000 and 1000000, and if it was a mcdonald's, it would be over 2000000. And then to have the nerve to pay employees a little over minimum wage. Once I told an employee the aforementioned, and he laughed and said that that was highly unlikely. If their was an organized union, they could strike, and even debate new salaried positions for non managerial positions. So many things wrong with corporate restaurants.
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