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Microwave sterilization of grain
    #527646 -

Ok, I've been thinking about this for a little while. I was wondering if anyone thinks it'd be possible to sterilize your subtrate using a microwave?

My first idea for going about this was to steam your finch seed or grain, then put it in microwave safe jars or a spawn bag and nuke it for like 15 - 20 minutes... I'm thinking it will blow up though. But, lets say the grains do blow up but don't mess up your bag or jars... wouldn't it still contain all the nutrients and stuff and the mycelium still colonize it? Another thing I thaught of with this tek is that the microwave might dry out the substrate real bad.

My second idea just now came to me and it sounds like it might work... I had one of those eureka things when I was fixing some ramen noodles. I always put my ramen noodles in a bowl with water and nuke it instead of boiling the stuff. That made me think of putting the dry (not steamed or boiled or anything) finch seed in the microwave safe jars with water and nuking them for like 20 minutes. Just like the other way of going about making your grain jars with a pressure cooker. I was thinking that this method would help lessen the chances of drying out your substrate and it would also keep the grains from exploding and also allow you to nuke it a lot longer. Just an idea

Keep in mind that its not heat sterilization, its the radiation thats sterilizing everything. Also, radiation heats from the inside out (thats why stuff blows up) so I'm thinking that means it will work fine with getting inside grain. I'm gonna use a peanut butter jar or something later on tonight and see how well my second idea works. Assuming the grain expands and absorbs the water like I'm hoping it will, I'm going to sit the jar up and see if any contams show up... if they don't, I'll repeat the process a few more times to make sure I didn't just get lucky.

Whats everyone's thaughts on this? It'd be quicker than pressure cooking and it'd also allow people to use grain substrate without investing in a pressure cooker. Oh ya... and does anyone know if canning jars and poly-fil are microwave safe? hehe


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Vitamin C chase, kill the taste. You can tell its nasty by the look on my face.
Ralphster44 & The FSR!
All thats stated above is for humor and a lie!!

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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: DarK_SavioR]
    #527657 -

Ok... I forgot to mention this... I think the water will probably boil and I also know from experience that you can melt plastic containers full of water in the microwave and shatter glass, hehe. I'm still gonna experiment with this though.


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Vitamin C chase, kill the taste. You can tell its nasty by the look on my face.
Ralphster44 & The FSR!
All thats stated above is for humor and a lie!!

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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: DarK_SavioR]
    #527672 -

Microwaving for 20 minutes without water might cause the substrate to burn. When I microwaved substrate for 10 minutes the container started to melt after 8 minutes and a short while later the substrate started to burn because most of the water was gone.

You can microwave canning jars but the lid will have to be loose so the steam can escape, one inoculation hole will not be enough. An alternative would be to just use the ring with a filter disk and the filter disk will allow for the steam to escape. Also you will have to cover the metal with something to keep it from being exposed, otherwise you'll get arcing in the microwave. (Try the Glad "Stand & Zip" quart bags, just put them upside down over the jar - I've used this to boil a batch of mycellium/honey water).

I really doubt a microwave will do a good job on a quart jart with grain. I did a test recently with a quart jar filled with PF style substrate. I boiled it for an hour then immediately transferred it to the microwave for 5 minutes on high. As soon as it was done, I shoved a candy thermometer in the middle of the jar half way down and the temperature was under 200 degrees farenheit. This tells me that the microwaves weren't penetrating deep enough to heat the interior of the mass - but it was a lot hotter on the surface.

I have had good results (better than boiling half pint jars but still not perfect) microwaving smaller flat containers, again with the PF style substrate but never with whole grains.

Edited by evolving (01/21/02 08:57 PM)

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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: ]
    #527674 -

I think that filter patches are water tight aren't they? So that would mean the air would be able to escape the jars without losing moisture I think. I didn't think this would work with larger jars or spawn bags but I figured it would be worth a try if it did work with half pint and pint size jars. I had thaught it might burn the substrate after drying it out also... thats why I considered the ramen noodle idea a eureka moment, hehe... I'm thinking it would be a while before the grain expanded and absorbed all the water, so you'd just have to keep an eye on your jars and then pull them out once the grains have expanded.

Oh ya... I use the plastic, reusable lids on my jars with 1/4" holes stuffed with poly-fil


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Vitamin C chase, kill the taste. You can tell its nasty by the look on my face.
Ralphster44 & The FSR!
All thats stated above is for humor and a lie!!

Edited by DarK_SavioR (01/21/02 09:16 PM)

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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: DarK_SavioR]
    #527702 -

Filter patches will allow steam to escape (at least the material I have used), liquid water has a harder time. Also you should really pre-soak the grain to activate the bacterial endospores, this makes them easier to kill. Endospores can be thought of as bacteria that have gone into hibernation to survive a dry environment, in this state they are much more resistent to high heat and other environmetal conditions which might ordinarily kill them. By pre-soaking the grain, bacteria become active again and more vulnerable to our efforts to kill them

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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: ]
    #527793 -

I'll try soaking the seeds for a little while first but not to the point that the grains begin to swell. That should help out some and still allow me to nuke it longer without the grains swelling and absorbing all the water and getting burnt or too dry. Thanks for mentioning that.


--------------------
Vitamin C chase, kill the taste. You can tell its nasty by the look on my face.
Ralphster44 & The FSR!
All thats stated above is for humor and a lie!!

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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: DarK_SavioR]
    #528003 -

what was wrong with a pressure cooker?...
the microwave has alot of other problems.. not to mention that it really does not cook very well.. ever made steak in the microwave?...


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If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.

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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: DinoMyc]
    #528319 -

Nothings wrong with a pressure cooker... the microwave would just be another alternative and save you the cost of a pressure cooker. I plan on using a pressure cooker 99.9% of the time, I just figured a microwave would be a good way of going about it for people that just grow for small personal stashes and stuff... just something to experiment with.


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Vitamin C chase, kill the taste. You can tell its nasty by the look on my face.
Ralphster44 & The FSR!
All thats stated above is for humor and a lie!!

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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: DarK_SavioR]
    #528550 -

my wookie friend sometimes sterilizes pf type jars (but with whole brown rice) in the microwave for about 5-7 minutes, you just cant allow the grain the explode, thats bad.
i think you're gonna have to use a PC to use a whole grain culture the way you want... cmon, its not that hard you lazy bastard. :wink:
good luck.

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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: felixhigh]
    #549606 -

bad ideah. very very bad...charlie babit squeazed and pulled and hurt my neck..yeah....bad ideah...definately definately a bad ideah....yeah

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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: kevman]
    #549615 -


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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: DarK_SavioR]
    #549710 -

>Keep in mind that its not heat sterilization, its the radiation
>thats sterilizing everything.

You obviouosly don?t quite know how a microwave works.
It?s the heat that emerges when the microwave radiation hits certain molecules, not radiation that sterilizes. We?re talking microwaves here, not gamma rays.

Please read how it works here:
http://rabi.phys.virginia.edu/HTW/microwave_ovens.html
http://www.howstuffworks.com/microwave.htm
hthttp://www.gallawa.com/microtech/mwfaq.html


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: Anno]
    #549789 -

not quite as high up on the spectrum ...hu...hu

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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: DarK_SavioR]
    #23953549 -

Lost my pressure cookers some time ago, I have been using the microwave ever since. It took some time but my method is solid. Grown cubes, oyster, reishi using the microwave method. I have also made sawdust spawn, grain spawn (rye grain was a problem) and spawn with wood shavings. I can share the method if you are interested.

R

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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: Radley]
    #23954747 -

I'd like to know your method. I have heard of pressure cookers which are made for microwave use before.

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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: Immutabl3]
    #23955265 -

You bumped a 14 hear old thread buddy....
The microwave things are not actually pressure cookers. They're more like as seen on TV shit



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Welcome to the Advanced Mycology Forum

Bod's Library    Article behind a paywall? I can try to get it for you

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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23955876 -

The guy above me did, which is quite impressive. I was wondering how they could be legit, certainly wouldn't have much pressure in them.

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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: Immutabl3]
    #23956331 -

Good luck with that bootleg shit :shrug:


--------------------
Welcome to the Advanced Mycology Forum

Bod's Library    Article behind a paywall? I can try to get it for you

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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23961186 -

I wouldn't worry too much about broken glass or melted plastic, most stuff out there is microwave safe.
But the grains on the other hand need constant low heat to get properly sterilized, i'm not saying it's impossible with a microwave but c'mon... a pressure cooker is worth the money and you can use it for yummy food as well.

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Re: Microwave sterilization of grain [Re: Immutabl3]
    #23962241 -

Radley said:
I can share the method if you are interested.



I'd be very interested to see your method. Most attempts/methods I have seen are bad, and so unlikely to work. I find it odd that some are convinced it could never work, yet have seemingly never tried it themselves and have possibly made their mind up after presumably reading people making poor attempts. Or maybe they did find someone attempting it in the way they would have done it themselves.

I don't think I have ever seen a failed attempt where I wondered what went wrong.

Immutabl3 said:
I have heard of pressure cookers which are made for microwave use before.


There was one in the 80s that went to 30psi, not on the market anymore. I know there is at least one out now that goes to 4psi. Many build up minimal pressure, they are just bowls with holes in them to restrict the steam coming out. A pot with a high energy heat source and tight fitting lid will build up pressure if the steam cannot escape fast enough, same with a sealed bowl with a hole in it in the microwave.

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