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Offlineblackout
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sterilizing dry (or partially dry) grains and adding sterile water later
    #1272709 - 02/03/03 05:27 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

has anybody added sterile water to sterile grains. i figure i can fit about twice the amount of dry grain into a pc. i could have water boiling to sterilize it, while my pc is doing grain or rice. there should be enough moisture in dry grain to sterilize it properly, if not a small amount of water could be added. if grain is sterile and then water is added and used to fill AC bags, they should only require steaming to resterilise them and to get the water to absorb. this may be beneficial to people with small PCs. you could PC a large bag of grain and use it to fill small jars which could then be steamed in a large pot.
i asked before (with no replies) about buying presterilized grain. some hemp seed is meant to be sterile, is this the plant or is it irradiated. it should only require steaming if irradiated. anybody working in a lettuce factory could stick a sly sack of grain in the irradiator machine :wink:


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Edited by blackout (10/30/09 06:31 PM)


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InvisibleBilge
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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: blackout]
    #1272724 - 02/03/03 05:32 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

i can't answer your question, but when hemp seed (or any seed) is said to be sterile, it usually means that it will not germinate, not that it is void of microorganisms.


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InvisibleLa_Magdalene
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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: blackout]
    #1273573 - 02/03/03 10:03 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

First off...hemp seed contains too high of an oil content, mycillium would not survive.  Secondly, is much easier to just soak the seed first and allow it to retain the maximum amount of moisture it can handle. Then PC it. To add water to dry, sterilized seed, you run the risk of not getting the H2O content just so. :shocked: 


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: La_Magdalene]
    #1273612 - 02/03/03 10:12 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

A good idea, but without proper moisture in the dry grain i question the effectiveness of pressure cooking....
Dont think it would work...


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OfflineCurious_George
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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1273750 - 02/03/03 10:46 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

You can fit more dry grain in a jar, but it needs to expand in order to absorb water and will use the same space!!!

And by transfering your grain to other jars, you open them up to contams!!

no go!

sorry.

cg


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Offlineblackout
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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: Bilge]
    #1276094 - 02/04/03 01:24 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"hemp seed contains too high of an oil content, mycillium would not survive"
yeah ive heard that. i thought popcorn has a high oil count too but it seems to work. i was really just asking if it was sterile or sterilized.

"you run the risk of not getting the H2O content just so."
some would argue that you can get it more accurate. weigh your grain and measure your water, many recipies are available


"but without proper moisture in the dry grain i question the effectiveness of pressure cooking"
thats why i say you could add a little more. its about 12% moisture to begin with.

"You can fit more dry grain in a jar, but it needs to expand in order to absorb water and will use the same space!!!"
thats why you put them in a big bag and fill the jars later. i can only fit 3 jars in my PC but about 100 in a big pot(keg). i think i could fit about 2kg of dry grain in the pc which will fill a lot more than 3 jars.


"And by transfering your grain to other jars, you open them up to contams!!"
exactly why you resterilize them, but this time the should only require steaming.

more arguments please!


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: blackout]
    #1276174 - 02/04/03 02:41 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

You are sterilizing once, then steaming again.
In the time you need for sterilizing/steaming you could easily sterilize twice, and be sure that the grain is sterile.

I?d say, try what you described here, and then report on your findings and results.


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Offlineblackout
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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: Anno]
    #1276483 - 02/04/03 05:39 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

i'm not sure what you mean there Anno. i steam because contams will be introduced when loading my jars, not because i'm unsure the pc worked.
i can only fit 3 jars in my PC. say i can fit enough dry grain for 21jars. i pc for say 2 hours to be sure, then load my 21 jars and steam for 2 hours in the big pot. thats 4.5 hours including 1/2hr heat up for the pc (start heating my stock pot when pcing). to do 21 jars would take 7 uses of the pc taking at least 1.5hr each including heat up. that is 10.5hrs altogether, which actually would take longer taking into account cooldowns and loading unloading.
steaming for 2 hrs may be overkill since the grain will be hot coming from the pc and i could add boiling water to the jars so they are up to temp instantly.

anyway, i will give it a go on a small scale first


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OfflineCurious_George
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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: blackout]
    #1278805 - 02/04/03 05:00 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I'm stoned right now.. so i might not make much sense..

but i think i finally understand what you are up to... correct me if i got it wrong...


You need a PC to kill all bacteria in grains, ie: to penetrate the grain and sterilize it.... PC dry grain and transfer to clean jars with sterile water while grain is still hot and then boil/steam to kill contams you introduce while stransfering to jars as steaming aparently takes care if it!!!

I know what you mean about the small PC< my 6 Qt presto sucked, 3 pints max at a time,,, a bag with dry grain could hold enough to fill 7-8 maybe more!

Not bad. there is just the water content factor you will need to find!

good luck!

cg


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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: blackout]
    #1279143 - 02/04/03 06:17 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Unpopped corn has a fat content of 3%.
It only has a high oil content because lardasses pour melted butter all over it  :grin:


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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: zeta]
    #1294788 - 02/09/03 11:00 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

i pc'd a kilo of ryegrass seed yesterday in a bag for 90 mins in an a/c bag. i then pc'd some water straight away. let it get to 15psi and turned the cooker off. i opened 30 mins later poured in to make the bag up to 2 kilos and sealed it. i microwaved it on "2" for 30 mins.
BTW i had too much water in at the start and some got in the bag. the bag weighed about 1.2kg when it came out so about 200ml of water got in during pcing.

i'll innoc with mex a soon


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OfflineWaldarbeiter
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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: blackout]
    #1295186 - 02/10/03 05:16 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

well I think sterilizing dry grain won't do much harm to contaminants.
Some endospores can easily survive a heat of 130?C, which your PC may have.
The real "killer" is the high-velocity water molecules; you know... the hotter matter gets, the faster it moves.
So the water molecules may act as sort of ammunition, destroying the bad spore's cells...
:grin:
P:S: what I wrote above may be bullshit, but to me it sounds OK. 


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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: blackout]
    #1336271 - 02/25/03 11:41 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

this is just an update- i got no contams after almost 2 1/2 weeks incubated at 27C. i have since opened the bag (it wasnt inoced) to transfer it to a gallon jar and stuck it in the microwave. i have a few gallon jars being fractionally sterilised in the microwave and i think i may be able to keep the moisture levels right too.


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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: blackout]
    #4810475 - 10/16/05 12:42 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Resurrecting this old thread. I cannot remember what happened to those jars.
I have pc'd 1kg of barley for 70 mins. It was dry with no water added at all. I will add water and microwave a small amount for 1 hour.

If this works it may be a good way of sterilizing in large batches. I buy things in a particular store, use them and return them within 16 days for a cash refund. Hippiechick does the same thing and gave me the idea of buying a very large AA pc. You could keep it for as long as the store allows, dry sterilize a huge amount of grain and return it. Then you have dry sterile grain that you can keep for years, that only requires steaming.


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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: blackout]
    #4811171 - 10/16/05 04:11 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I would think that the ideal method would be to sterilize grains when they are wet, then desiccate them and vacuum store them.


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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4822174 - 10/18/05 09:04 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

if you boil or steep your grain before pressure cooking them, they'll absorb plenty of water... I boil my seed for almost an hour and then drain it using a pillow case and mix a little whole wheat flour with it. The idea is to get the grain to absorb the water it needs before pressure cooking it when I do that. Dunno if that'd help you out any, if you seal the grain in a bag before pressure cooking it, should be straight I'd imagine. But it seams like overcomplicating it if you're just gonna be putting that grain into jars and then sterilizing it again... I'd rather sit on my ass and wait another hour on the pressure cooker.


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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: BubbleBoi]
    #4823753 - 10/19/05 04:20 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

You guys are missing the point. How many 1/2pint jars could you fit in your PC? now how much grain you could fit? probably 2kg in a small PC.
So if you do 2kg in 90mins, this is enough for 10 quart jars, 20 pint jars or 40 1/2 pint jars. If you load the jars up straight after the grain is pc'd you can add boiling water and steam for 90mins on the other cooker ring in a large stock pot, while pcing even more dry grain.


Or like I said get a loan or return a massive PC after processing a few years worth of dry grain. This would be useful for those with no pc or small pcs. Or vendors could do it, many sell grains, some sell wet grain, but the postage is more.
Some people may want to try grains but do not wish to buy a pc (yet), they could buy some steamable grain from a vendor to try out.

Note to myself: jar=252g grain=121g aim for 464-494g wet. start at 550g
microwaved for 90mins. to 462g. added pin from invitro texan jar 20-10-05


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Edited by blackout (10/21/05 04:36 AM)


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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: blackout]
    #4840671 - 10/23/05 10:03 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

This is the texan pin that I added


It is starting to colonise some grains now. Early days yet.


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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: blackout]
    #4878453 - 11/01/05 04:37 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Damn, lost it to wet spot. Took a while for it to start though. I was not very clean when I transferred the pin to the jar. Could wet spot be from contams in the air? or is it usually from within the grains?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: blackout]
    #4878523 - 11/01/05 06:32 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

> i could have water boiling to sterilize it

You mean pasteurized, not sterilized. There are plenty of organisms that can survive boiling water at STP.

Wet spot could have come from either the grain or from contams in the air. Repeat your experiement, but create some controls. In this case, transfer to one jar and leave the other jar sealed. If both jars contaminate, then you know the transfer was not the cause (or at least not the only cause).


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Hemp, Pressure Cooker, Scales

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

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