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Offlineblackout
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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: Seuss]
    #4878560 - 11/01/05 07:42 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Boiling tap water is enough to sterilize it, endospores will survive boiling water, but there should be none in tap water (possibly in regions with very poor drinking water which is undrinkable).
I will repeat it and not inoculate the jar. I have millet I fractionally microwaved months ago which has not contamed yet.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: blackout]
    #4878819 - 11/01/05 10:59 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

> Boiling tap water is enough to sterilize it, endospores will survive boiling water

Sure, boiling sterile water will result in sterile water (assuming that no contamination was accidently added during the process) but it is a very bad assumption that tap water is sterile to begin with... it most certainly is not. My tap water comes from a cistern under my house which is collected from rain fall that lands on the roof. The house I grew up in got its tap water from the water well out back... I used to put the tap water under the microscope when I was kid to watch all the little microscopic organisms swim around... again, certainly not sterile.


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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: Seuss]
    #4878867 - 11/01/05 11:21 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I never said tap water was sterile to begin with, just that drinkable tap water will have no endospores that require a PC to kill. It will be full of all sorts of conaminants, easily killed by a simple boiling.


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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: blackout]
    #11353357 - 10/30/09 07:17 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Just revisiting this old idea. I have had good success with adding lots of LC to partially dry grains, even to bone dry grains which were drier than how they started.

I got 700g of wheat and boil/PC'd it for about 5mins, very low pressure. It then weighed 1130g, so this meant 430ml of water was added. This is quite a bit less than many recommend. I sterilized at up to 17-22psi for about 100mins, when coming out the grains looked reasonably wet and none had exploded. I presume the lack of moisture means they are less prone to exploding, another bonus. When cooled they did look quite dry.

I added 50ml of LC (Penis envy). This showed no growth for several days, in the past I have had 80-90% colonisation using a lot of LC in just 3 days, though in larger ratios. I had thought I would have to add more LC to get it going, but now about 1 week on the bag shows colonisation throughout the entire bag.

This is another advantage to using a lot of LC, you may not have to shake the grains at all, just add your LC, mix well and leave it colonise. I have a second tupperware container which I have fruited in before. I added normal moisture PC'd grain to this and then microwaved it driving the moisture out and sterilizing the container in the process, my plan is to add lots of LC, have it colonise quickly but it will already be in its fruiting chamber, so I only have to case it so it never experiences any shaking after myc growth has begun. I also figure this could result in a far stronger myc seeing as it is never disrupted. My LC is MS, but I would also guess a proper isolate would have far better results. This also should minimise the risk of contams in the stage where you shake grain and add to a container and then case, I expect it might rip through the casing layer.

When grains are soaked properly and cooked until dry in a microwave they remain a larger size/volume, this is like a sponge which then sucks moisture in very easily. I have read about how grains will grow in volume when roasted. I have successfully grown on burnt/roasted grains in the past too. You can read about how roasted grains increase in size here
http://www.international-agrophysics.org/artykuly/international_agrophysics/IntAgr_2002_16_2_167.pdf


There might be other benefits from roasting the grain before PC'ing
http://www.roast-a-matic.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=32

This is related to animals but I wonder if shrooms might benefit too.
Quote:

The dry heat from the roaster at a high temperature destroys the toxic enzymes in the raw soybeans which interfere with digestion and growth in all animals. Also, the soluble protein is decreased and the by-pass protein content is increased. The protein degradability is slowed down so that much of it passes through the rumen and is utilized in the small intestine known as by-pass protein. High levels of by-pass protein from roasted beans is a very important ingredient to supplement soluble protein being fed from early-cut legume haylage. Roasted beans are high in lysine, which is an important amino acid, and are very palatable to livestock.roast_on_trailer.jpg

The oil is an important material retained in a whole roasted soybean. About 20% of the bean is oil, making it a tremendous source of concentrated energy. It provides 2 1/4 times as much energy as a carbohydrate. By roasting it, it is converted to a more digestible form. It is an economical and convenient way to provide necessary energy dense rations without providing too much fermentable carbohydrates in the rumen.....

he roasting of corn destroys mold and reduces mycotoxins to tolerable levels. Herbicide carry over microscopic mold and fungus are greatly reduced. This process enables you to feed out-of -condition grain. By sterilizing the grain, there is no harmful stress coming from the feed so that the total feed is assimilated for peak production. When corn is roasted at high temperatures, there is a 10% increase in available energy. Roasting ruptures the walls of the starch cells making the starch water-soluble. This is called gelatinization. The gelatinization of starch makes it more digestible, thereby increasing the feed efficiency. Roasted corn grinds easier which saves on grinding costs......





Further testing is obviously needed, but you the grain did appear quite wet so I think I can get away with adding a lot less water and still sterilizing it properly.


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Invisibledancefloordale
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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: blackout]
    #11404763 - 11/07/09 02:57 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I was just browsing (I am constantly researching things) and I came upon this.

I really like the idea of not disturbing the myc at all and it has crossed my mind before. I try to minimize my disturbances, one way like you discussed is shaking well after inoculation with LC. I even shake with MS to grain.

This seems like something you may well be interested in...

Grain LC's are a nice way to know when you make an LC that it is not contaminated, that's why I like 'em.  I'm guessing you are familiar. Well approximately 10cc's of solution never make it make out of the half pint jars used for this. You look at the grain and think there is no way this will not contam now. Flipping it upside down, laying it on its side, rolling it over, just move it around so the water doesn't stay pooled in one place. The myc loves this, and will really bounce back, much more vigorous than before.

I think it is something worth looking into and it may help with WBS poor moisture retention. Maybe not though.


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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: dancefloordale]
    #11499865 - 11/21/09 06:40 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I just PC'd 1.5kg of wheat, it was boiled for a few minutes and weighed 2050g and came out quite wet looking, 80mins @ ~20psi.

I am going to make a lid with a needle attached and a self healing hole. I hope to be able to inject the bag and turn the jar on its side to pour the LC into the bag,


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OfflineMr. Mushroom
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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: dancefloordale]
    #11536138 - 11/27/09 10:09 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

dancefloordale said:
I was just browsing (I am constantly researching things) and I came upon this.

I really like the idea of not disturbing the myc at all and it has crossed my mind before. I try to minimize my disturbances, one way like you discussed is shaking well after inoculation with LC. I even shake with MS to grain.

This seems like something you may well be interested in...

Grain LC's are a nice way to know when you make an LC that it is not contaminated, that's why I like 'em.  I'm guessing you are familiar. Well approximately 10cc's of solution never make it make out of the half pint jars used for this. You look at the grain and think there is no way this will not contam now. Flipping it upside down, laying it on its side, rolling it over, just move it around so the water doesn't stay pooled in one place. The myc loves this, and will really bounce back, much more vigorous than before.

I think it is something worth looking into and it may help with WBS poor moisture retention. Maybe not though.







I had a few jars that had more moisture in them then they should have, i would just keep moving them around, setting them upside one day, on the side the next, just different sides at the end, now as you can see my jars took off pretty good, and i think its due to extra moisture, but at the same time this extra moisture can be bad thing....



if you look close at the bottom of these jars youll see the moisture has cause a milky buildup on the rye your myc will have a hard time eating through this, since these jars were done over a month ago and have had little progress in the last couple weeks.


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Invisibledancefloordale
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Re: sterilizing dry grains and adding sterile water later [Re: Mr. Mushroom]
    #11537647 - 11/27/09 04:19 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I think the main difference is that the grains are already colonized when adding the extra water. Too much water before colonization is much more likely to lead to contams. I haven't looked into this anymore though, been kinda busy lately....


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Everything posted by the user dancefloordale, aside from what is written in this here clause is completely and utterly fictitious, despite any information read (or seen), above (or below) that might lead you to believe otherwise.

Hydra Tek - A detailed guide, for newest to the most skilled cultivators.

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Bulk growing made easy-discussion
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