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Invisiblezilch
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Registered: 11/02/00
Posts: 58
PF Amazonian, Matias Romero, PF Classic...
    #519338 - 01/13/02 01:17 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

At this moment I am groing what I was told was "PF". Then a friend of mine bought Matias Romero from smartbotanics and gave me a syringe. Later I was told the "PF" was PF Amazonian from SmartBotanics also. On their site they say that PFE is the "Original from PF, called 'Amazonian'". Plenty of persons has now told me, and i've read, that the Matias Romero is the original from PF. This is crazy! What am I growng?

Thanks plenty for any help!

zilch


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InvisibleCLuB99
lost somewhere in time andspace
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Registered: 10/27/99
Posts: 1,314
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Re: PF Amazonian, Matias Romero, PF Classic... [Re: zilch]
    #519645 - 01/13/02 06:51 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

PF are the same as amazonians, matias romero is another strain.


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Anonymous

Re: PF Amazonian, Matias Romero, PF Classic... [Re: CLuB99]
    #519817 - 01/13/02 10:15 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

pf calls his strain Matias Romero, among other things. Thats old news.


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Invisiblezilch
enthusiast
Registered: 11/02/00
Posts: 58
Re: PF Amazonian, Matias Romero, PF Classic... [Re: CLuB99]
    #520131 - 01/14/02 07:30 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Well,
your actually the first to say that Matias Romero is not PF Classic. I would really be glad if this would confince me.

zilch


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InvisibleCLuB99
lost somewhere in time andspace
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Registered: 10/27/99
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Re: PF Amazonian, Matias Romero, PF Classic... [Re: zilch]
    #520374 - 01/14/02 01:09 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

you can check either una's site, wich sells matias romero and the pics he shows aren't PF fatasses, or smart botanics wich carry PF and matias romero.
Since i growed both of them i can assure you that those are 2 completely different mushrooms, one (the pf) is a fatass cubie that normally grows in singles specimens (not clustered), the matias romero is a normal shaped cubensis, with a very aerial veil and like to grow in clusters....


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Anonymous

Re: PF Amazonian, Matias Romero, PF Classic... [Re: CLuB99]
    #520862 - 01/14/02 09:45 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Thats strange, the spores I got came directly from pf and produce fat-ass clusters!


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OfflineSir Tokes-A-Lot
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 3,084
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
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Re: PF Amazonian, Matias Romero, PF Classic... [Re: ]
    #520906 - 01/14/02 10:28 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

yeah, when i got "matias romero" spores from max, they all grew in clusters. i have proof, too


--------------------


"If god liked midgets, he woulda made 'em come on stilts."- ChemicalMonkey (The Early Years)


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: PF Amazonian, Matias Romero, PF Classic... [Re: zilch]
    #520989 - 01/14/02 11:35 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

PF calls his strain PF, not Matias Romero as some would say. He acknowledges that some people may call it Matias Romero, but doesn't say that it is. In fact, he almost implies that those people are simply selling his strain (PF) and have changed the name, not that the PF strain really is or came from the Matias Romero.

A book from 1983 that I have makes reference to Matias Romero. PF started business in 1991. That means that PF has had the PF strain for at least 11 years, quite possibly longer if he worked with it before he got in business which is likely. Even IF the PF strain was developed from the Matias Romero strain, which isn't even really known, then 11+ years of growing and breeding a strain for certain characteristics and parameters is more than enough time to make a large difference between the two. That's IF the PF strain even came from the Matias Romero.

PF makes plenty references to his strain having been selected for it's performance with his tek and parameters. That's breeding and natural selection. That's strain developement and evolution. That results in different strains.

Semantics of strain names aside, of course a Matias Romero strain that never went through PF's hands (and therefore his decade plus, maybe two decades, of breeding) is going to be very different from the current (perfected as PF would say) strain sold by PF as the PF strain.

Now, what each individual vendor sells as what. You'll have to ask them. Obviously people like Max simply call them both either PF or Matias Romero interchangeably. I've stated my opinion on that elsewhere. Others clearly think there is a difference.

When in doubt, question your vendor. That is if they aren't too touchy about such detailed subjects.

My opinion is that there is obviously a difference between a Matias Romero strain and the PF strain. That is unless when you say Matias Romero, you don't really mean Matias Romero what you mean is the PF strain with a different name.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Registered: 01/19/99
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Re: PF Amazonian, Matias Romero, PF Classic... [Re: mycofile]
    #521032 - 01/15/02 12:10 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

In fact, lets clear this up even more. From TMC, chilton and Stamets, 1983:
"Amazonian: Medium to large mushrooms on rye grain; thick whitish stems; tenaciously attached to the casing

Matias Romero: Medium to large mushrooms on rye grain; early fruiter; thick whitish stems and tenaciously attached."


This alone tells us that the Matias Romero and Amazonian strains are different. Unless somebody is gonna tell me that Stamets and Chilton are idiots and they made a mistake, but don't bet on it. This also means that all three names can't be interchangeable.

Now, what PF says about his strain in related areas:

"7. SIZE TENDANCIES (overall size of the mushroom at maturity)
Small to about as big as they get. 2. STEM (length - girth - flesh - colors)
It can be short and fat or long and hefty. It depends on the air and humidity. The PF race responds to this seriously. with lots of air and humidity, the PF stem is long, slender, thick fleshed and white. The flesh of the PF race is unique amongst all the races. It is very much like soft moist BREAD. But sometimes there can be a bit of fibrousness here and there.

5. TENACIOUSNES (Strength of attachment of the stem base to the cake)
The PF is the champ at this. Usually the PF shroom as a large base (big foot). In fact, "BIG FOOT" should be the sur name of the PF race. This makes the PF race the most tenacious to the substrate of them all. When harvested, it is common to pull off large chunks of cake in the process.

6. SHAPE SHIFTING (shapes and changes of flush to flush - strain to strain)
The PF race is the champ in this also. It goes from ugly little abhorts and convoluted dwarfs, to tall robust white thick stemed specimens with large deep reddish colored caps that go to plane and then wildly upturn at full maturity. "


So, does this tell us if the PF strain came from either the MR or the Amazon or neither? I don't think so. The similarities in the descriptions are obvious, but don't rule out but half of all cube strains. Also, don't you think that Stamets and Chilton would have noted some of the AMAZING and UNIQUE characteristics of the PF strain? LIke it's moist bread consistency? Or it's EXTREME tanacity? Or the fact that it sometimes makes small shrooms, not the medium to large that stamets uses to describe the other two? Or the mutants that the PF strain shows? Do you really think that the master of mycology would overlook "ugly aborts, convoluted dwarfs, and wildly upturned caps"?

Sorry, but if any of those traits of the PF strain had been present in the Amazonian or Matias Romero strain, you better bet that at least one of them would have been mentioned.

Going back to my previous post, it's still obvious that the current day PF strain is different from either of the two described by stamets in 1983, whether they share ancestry or not.

Now if people want to mislead people into buying Stamets strain and getting the PF strain, then I guess they can use either Amazonian or Matias Romero freely. But if the point of a strain name is to let the consumer have any idea of what they are growing, I think the prudent thing to do would be to not use these names interchangeably.

But then again, PF did say
"It is also called "Matias Romero" at other spore sellers sites or Amazonian. It lately has picked up the name "PF CLASSIC"."
So that gives us permission to call it whatever we want and claim that it's correct. I mean people can't be expected to know what strain they really have, it's too complicated. Let the growers and future vendors figure it out. I mean, they're just gonna call em whatever they want as well. Right?


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Anonymous

Re: PF Amazonian, Matias Romero, PF Classic... [Re: mycofile]
    #521473 - 01/15/02 07:09 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I'll just quickly expalin again that you are wrong. pf DID claim it as Matias Romero and weather it really was or not doesn't make any difference anymore. It has been referred to long enough that it is known as that.

And as I recall, the 'pf classic' was supposidly an isolated, lets say 'superstrain' of his regular strain. Which he called MR and which picked up the nickname amazonian because of its large size. Not to be confused with anything that actually may have come from the amazon.

And that is the last I have to say on that. I will not be drawn into petty arguments. Go argue with pf about it. He said it, not me.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: PF Amazonian, Matias Romero, PF Classic... [Re: ]
    #521772 - 01/16/02 12:35 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I suppose that he said that to you while you, Stamets, Chilton, and John Walker were all having a friendly litte teleconferance, right? And I bet you recorded it, and I shall start to hear it before I finish typing this sentence?

PF classic came about to differentiate itself from the other PF strains that had never previously existed. Before he got multiple strains, PF didn't even really have strain issue. He had one. Phuckit, that's all he needed. But once you start filling the barn up with turkeys, you need to differentiate the garden fork from everything else in the crowded ass turkey barn. So, it becomes the classic garden fork. Cuz it was there before the turkies.

PF, PF classic, no big difference there. PF, MR, big fucking difference there.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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