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InvisibleMicronMagick
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Registered: 10/17/01
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    #479000 - 12/04/01 03:02 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

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InvisibleJoshua
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Registered: 10/27/98
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Re: "Exclusive" question [Re: MicronMagick]
    #479014 - 12/04/01 03:35 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Pardon my stupidity, but what do you mean by exclusive? Is someone offering you strains that they have exclusive access to? If you offer them for sale doesn't that make them non-exclusive. How would someone have access to an exclusive strain?

I think if there were an exclusive strain, that the exclusivity of the strain should be decided by the strain holder, if the holder is willing to depart from exclusivity then by all means share the strain.

Joshua



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InvisibleMicronMagick
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: Joshua]
    #479028 - 12/04/01 03:49 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

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Invisible40oz
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Re: "Exclusive" question [Re: MicronMagick]
    #479072 - 12/04/01 05:05 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

you should take it up with the company.

remember the ralphster, workman dispute?


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InvisibleMicronMagick
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Registered: 10/17/01
Posts: 1,026
Post deleted by users_request [Re: 40oz]
    #479094 - 12/04/01 05:49 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

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Invisible40oz
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Re: "Exclusive" question [Re: MicronMagick]
    #479111 - 12/04/01 07:07 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

i wont comment on the ralphster, workman issue....

all ill say is,
i dont think its a matter of ego...i think its a matter of respect.


--------------------
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:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
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Anonymous

Re: "Exclusive" question [Re: MicronMagick]
    #479128 - 12/04/01 07:41 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

The term "exclusive" is total b.s..When I buy a new strain,the first thing I do is grow it out and make 20 or 30 prints.Those are prints that I made from my fruits.Any vendor that thinks he has any right to tell me what I can or cannot do with my spores that dropped from my fruits,is delusional,and is being "disrespectful" to the entire mushroom community.The vendor lost the right to call that strain "exclusive" the minute he sold the first print or syringe.


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Invisiblejim2
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Registered: 04/02/00
Posts: 204
Re: "Exclusive" question [Re: MicronMagick]
    #479148 - 12/04/01 08:28 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

if you buy a cow, and the cow has a calf, does the guy who sold you the cow have any rights to any milk that the calf might produce in the future? as soon as any spores were sold for profit it's not exclusive any more. sell the exclusive strain.


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OfflinepsilocyberV
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Registered: 06/09/99
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Re: "Exclusive" question [Re: MicronMagick]
    #479149 - 12/04/01 08:29 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

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Invisible40oz
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Re: [Re: jim2]
    #479169 - 12/04/01 09:19 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

i think these pop spore vendors / spore whores need to obtain their own "exclusive" strains and quit stealing other vendors "exclusive" strains that THEY BROUGHT to the market....spore whores are gonna kill it for real...
have you ever heard:
"dont bite the hand that feeds you"


--------------------
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tiny_rabid_birds said:
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Invisiblejim2
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Registered: 04/02/00
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Re: [Re: 40oz]
    #479206 - 12/04/01 10:04 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

no vender owns the rights to any strain. did they INVENT these mushrooms? did they do anything more than acquire some spore prints grow them out and sell the resulting spores? where do they get the spores for the other strains they sell? aren't the other strains somebody else's EXCLUSIVE strain? wouldn't that make them spore whores, for stealing somebody else's acquired strain? if a spore vender wants an exclusive strain he better do a little genetic work and make sure any mushrooms that a grown from HIS spore prints are sterile, as soon as a vender sells the first spores he doesn't own them anymore, he took the money and sold the rights. these venders who think they OWN these strains should realize they're not god, they didn't create the mushrooms. even if they did a little selective breeding, once they sell the spores they're not theirs anymore. if they feel they're not getting the money for the amount of work that went into them, charge more from the start. by your way of thinking, any vender that sells spores other than the ones he brought to market is a spore whore, well we sure have alot of whores around here


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Invisible40oz
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Re: [Re: jim2]
    #479269 - 12/04/01 11:41 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

technically speaking...no they dont have "ownership" rights...
but...
if the supplier of the "exclusive" strains, keeps getting assed out by spore whores, the supplier will either,
1. charge an arm or a leg....or
2. say fuck this and not sell them at all...

....either way they are still fuct...

so then what?

we are going to have a shitload of spore whores selling senesant strains (eventually)....

i think spore whores are parasitic to the vendors who actually put forth into introducing the "exclusives."
.......all for $$ & greed.

wheres the morality?
wheres the respect to what these vendors do for the community?

i think its pretty fuct up if u ask me.



--------------------
:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."


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InvisibleRyche HawkV
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Re: "Exclusive" question [Re: MicronMagick]
    #479310 - 12/04/01 12:30 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Try being original!!

I personally dont see anything wrong with one vendor buying prints from another vendor, growing them out in a controlled environment and producing prints. Its going to happen eventually regardless. Many of these new vendors dont have sources for obtaining new and original specimans so there going to get them from the general OMC anyway.

What I hate seeing is people getting prints from random growers or trading rings and vendor X growing these out and sells them, really not knowing 100% of it is indeed the original strain.
Do you know how many stories i've read here and emails I've received of ppl forgetting which jars were which after inoculation. Or how many growers grow 2 or 3 different cubs in the same terranium which leads to spores from all different strains drifting all over each other. Yet that grower takes prints and sends them out in trades etc....
Can that vendor say with 100% assurence its is indeed strain X from Thailand etc.... when he did not grow out a print from a reputable vendor or source for this strain x?

I did not follow the drama between Workman and Ralphster so I really cant comment on that. But I will say that for years many of us online were patiently waiting for a real mexicana to show up and produce fruits that would drop spores.
Workman grew out so many different so called p. mexicana's over the years hoping to bring this to the OMC. And how many false claims did he run into ?? Many !! Personally I feel out of props and respect he deserved exclusive rights to that strain at least for a year. Of course there is no way to enforce it, its just done out of respect.
Just my opinion on this matter.

As for the ps. samuiensis there were a lot more prints brought back then just what MJ brought back from Thailand.
I have raw video footage and pictures along with many spore prints of "them" REdiscovering the samuiensis in Thailand this past summer. I've been sitting on the prints for a while now but as soon as I have the pics processed and posted and some streaming video ready, you can all see the parents of these samuiensis from Thailand this summer....and hey... MJ is in some of the video... je je je ...Although note MJ was not the one who RE discovered it this summer but he certainly brought a fair share of prints back to share with OMC.


MicronMagik, I say do what your heart tells you is right.
Hopefully you got this strain directly from a vendor and grew it out yourself.


--------------------
-Peace-

High Quality MUSHROOM SPORES and CULTURES  for microscopy at www.muShrooms.com


muShrooms.com is the new web site of
www.thehawkseye.com


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Invisiblejim2
enthusiast
Registered: 04/02/00
Posts: 204
Re: [Re: 40oz]
    #479322 - 12/04/01 12:35 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

more venders=competition
competition=lower prices=better customer service=new products
venders get new products to gain an edge over their competition, which equals more money for them. it's all about the money, every one who sells spores wants the money.

wheres the respect to what these vendors do for the community?
what do they actually do? answer questions from time to time? isn't that part of customer service? advertising?

if we get rid of the spore whores, how long before the prices of spores skyrocket? if you can't get them anywhere else, the vender can charge whatever he wants. how often do you think you'd see new strains without competition? why get new strains if they can take your money by selling you the same tired strains over and over. get rid of the competition and you'll see higher prices, less variety. with competition a vender has to work for your money, with competition ever customer becomes important. if a vender retains exclusive rights to a strain, he can charge whatever he wants for it, if ever vender has that strain also, quality, customer service, price become the selling points


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Anonymous

Re: [Re: 40oz]
    #479329 - 12/04/01 12:39 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Here at the SporeLab, we see both sides of the coin. On one hand, we carry PF's Matias Romero strain. We don't brag about it or advertise it but it is listed on our webpage. I feel that it has been around long enough to become part of the mainstream, heck, it's been around longer than any strain!

On the other hand, we also carry a couple 'exclusive' strains, so called because we brought these strains to the table and are the only ones offerering them. Obviously, through the passage of time, they too will enter the mainstream when realized as a good product by other vendors, at which time they will no longer be 'exclusive', they will be 'some other advertising hype' term.

This is to be expected and that is why we are always working to bring new 'exclusive' strains from around the world...blah..blah...blah. There's another one coming soon...

Out of respect for the vendors who introduce new strains, etc. we like to wait a year or so before contemplating picking up other vendors products. There is a certain amount of work involved in introducing these new strains, sometimes a lot of work, just ask Workman and this should be acknowledged and respected.

What I don't like to see are 'copy-cat' vendors who offer nothing new, just what they can leech off others. It's too bad we couldn't have little patents or something on the strains we bring. Or maybe we could throw all the strains and vendors names in hats and draw for 'exclusive' strains'...


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Invisiblejim2
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Registered: 04/02/00
Posts: 204
Re: [Re: ]
    #479341 - 12/04/01 12:45 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

good points max, with the very nature of mushrooms, you automatically get 2-3 months when it's exclusive. other venders have to grow them out. they can't get around that.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: "Exclusive" question [Re: MicronMagick]
    #479538 - 12/04/01 03:12 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I think it's very simple. You buy a print from Hawk for example, regardless of the strain, he has no exclusive rights to it. On the other hand, buy a culture from Fungi Perfecti and he sure as hell does. What's the difference? Buying a strain from Paul Stamets is also buying a license to use that strain for certain things, use it for other things and it's an illegal violation. Hawk on the other hand encourages people to spread the love.

So, be respectful if you want, but if you aquired the strain with no striings attached then there are no strings attached.

Vendors should make exclusive licenses for strains they want to keep exclusively.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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InvisibleRyche HawkV
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Re: [Re: jim2]
    #479602 - 12/04/01 04:22 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

All very good points. But in the 3+ years I've been in business my prices have stayed the same past the first 6 months, for the most part.
We send out quality spore clouded syringe and large thick spore prints and I'm not going to lower my price just because some other new spore whores want to make a quick buck and offer cut throat prices. I have specials going on every single week but I dont come here and advertise them.
If you want to see them, just drop by the website each week and take a look.

How many times have I seen some random growers show up and make a bunch of quick syringes and to make a fast buck and disappear. I remember about a year ago a member of the shroomery some ppl thought were cool and wanted to be a spore vendor offered a bunch of syringes at $5 each.
He suckered hundereds of ppl into this offer and took off with there money. What a joke.

Of course competition is good. But there comes a point when  low prices is to low. Running a successful spore busienss is a lot of hard work and time. Our prices will always stay fair, certainly not dirt cheap, and certainly not expensive, just fair. I dont care how low other vendors make there prices to get your busienss, ours will always stay fair.
If ppl stop ordering from us because some other vendor is sending out lower quality spore syringes and prints for a much cheaper price then so be it, we'll lag on business for a while until they run out of spores.... je je je

We take on the philosophy, you get what you pay for.

Some ppl are going to go for the cheap price no matter what. Instead of paying the few extra $$ for quality to begin with they will follow the cheapest prices even if they know very little about the vendor. Which does not make any sense to me sinse its your root stock of spores that can play a huge factor in how good your crops are to begin with.
This thread might explain a little more on that to begin with.
clear vs spore clouded thread

Mycofile, that really is a damn good point about Stamets. That is one of the things he concentrates on, is developing the highest possible quality strains for commercial production and research. People are paying good money for those strains and many buy the license to use his "private stock" strains of various species for their research and commercial farms.

In a sense its something we do as well is spend a lot of time developing a strain before releasing them. This is something
-Clyde- brought to the table for The Hawks Eye.
He does most of the growing these days and he wont release anything until after its been run through the mill a few times and proves itself to be a winner. We could offer a multitude of just average strains that we have grown out but we wont.
We tried that with the Guadalajara, Colombians & Malaysia cubensis. Sure enough hardly anybody was getting decent enough flushes to write home about and lack of customer interest we dropped them. We only keep the ones that produce beautiful crops time and time again.

He even tried a few "exlusive" cubs from other vendors that turned out to be less then average producers.
Talk to Workman, he probably has 100+ species or strains but you dont see him offering them all either.

The most recent one that has surpassed our expectations is the pink buffalo and Lamai Beach from Thailand. I have so many new pictures from all the strains, including some new ones that I really need to get busy updating the site with ...:)

Tthere really is no way to patent or a vendor to keep his new strains exclusive, especially with an illegal mushroom to begin with :sad:. And like was mentioned, it takes many months to develop a new strain.

How many of these new wanna be vendors grow them out once and sell you the spore before the strain is developed? I did that once with the Cambodians back when they were first introduced and that mistake cost me dearly. That strain was very unstable in the 2nd generation and all the spores died off after only being in syringes for about 2 months. I had something like 300 syringes to replace, plus I sent extras for the troubles...and oh what a 3 month mess that was to fix. A lesson learned the hard way :smile:

There really is no way for have exclusive rights to a strain of psilocybe. Its just done out of respect really. Its up to the customer to decide which vendor he thinks is offering the best selection of spores from a strain.

Ok...that was my 2 cents... well that was very long... more like 8 cents.

Like I said MicronMagik, go with what your heart feels is right and hopefull you have spent some time developing this strain and are not offering it just because someone offered you a cheap deal on bunch of prints.


--------------------
-Peace-

High Quality MUSHROOM SPORES and CULTURES  for microscopy at www.muShrooms.com


muShrooms.com is the new web site of
www.thehawkseye.com


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Invisiblejim2
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Registered: 04/02/00
Posts: 204
Re: [Re: Ryche Hawk]
    #479667 - 12/04/01 05:18 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

when i talk about a spore vender, i don't mean some kid that grows a crop on some PF cakes and decides to sell spores, i mean the people that are serious about the business. if somebody is dedicated to the work, it doesn't matter if they just started selling spores. afterall all the established venders were new at one time. right now, i think there's a good healthy competition with the venders. people offering new strains all the time, uncontaminated spore syringes, and a stable price range. the only real difference now is the syringes being cloudy or not. i myself prefer cloudy, but i haven't bought a syringe since i first started and got them from PF. they worked great, but i would have liked to see a few more spores in there. that's the difference now, who's making one or two syringes from a print, and who's making five or six. i look at that as a quality issue. you do get what you pay for. as for the exclusive strains, you can't really have them. what you can have are strains that you gaurantee, by that i mean, if you buy a strain, that's what you get. buy from somebody unestablished with no reputation , how do you know your getting what you paid for? it's a crap shoot! you need sort of a certification of authenticity.unless your getting the spores from the origanal vender, or somebody you REALLY trust, it's buyer beware


Edited by jim (12/04/01 05:22 PM)


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OfflineNITRIC
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Registered: 02/24/01
Posts: 61
Loc: the buckeye
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: [Re: jim2]
    #479674 - 12/04/01 05:31 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

i just want to know what the exclusive spores are?


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