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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Is having a crutch so bad?
    #5184338 -

Many times, I've read or heard things like

- Having faith, religion, spirituality, going to church, etc - is a crutch. But, using it in a very negative context.

But, I was just thinking - what is a crutch? - In the most literal sense as in the physical object. Like, using crutches when you've broken a leg - Its a tool to help you back on the path to good health. It's there to support you in a time of need, and hopefully - lead you to a better place : Good health, a healed leg.

Personally, I am not a big fan of Church/Religion. For me, my faith does not need to be defined by four walls, a bunch of pews and a man standing behind a podium telling me what to believe. My faith has come from a lot of searching, thinking, researching, and finding it within myself.

For some people - They need their church, or their religion to help them. Is it a crutch? Yes. But not in a bad way, it's something to help lift their spirits, help keep them on a path towards healing - and hopefully a better place with their faith and spirituality. The destination all has a good intent.

Is it really *that* bad to have some sort of a crutch? If it helps lead people down a good path - I don?t see why it should be considered such a terrible thing.

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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: kaniz]
    #5184379 -

Spiritual beliefs that do not have practical value are useless. If they do not improve or enhance the here/now in a practical real way they are merely mental masturbation...nothing more. In this sense there is no true "crutch". Impractical religious beliefs would speed no healing process and would be therefore useless. A crutch in real life is quite practical and useful. A broken crutch would be useless.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: kaniz]
    #5184394 -

My thoughts exactly. There's nothing wrong with seeking support outside of oneself. You don't have to be all macho and do everything yourself. It's ok to seek help. The naysayers call religion a crutch, I call it a refuge. I take refuge in Christ. A Buddhist might seek refuge in the Buddha.

Even Karl Marx's famous quote about the "opiate of the masses" is taken out of context, and when we look at the whole quote, we see a more sympathetic sentiment:

Quote:
Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.



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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5184467 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Spiritual beliefs that do not have practical value are useless. If they do not improve or enhance the here/now in a practical real way they are merely mental masturbation...nothing more. In this sense there is no true "crutch". Impractical religious beliefs would speed no healing process and would be therefore useless. A crutch in real life is quite practical and useful. A broken crutch would be useless.


and how are they just merely mental masterbation? If they help set a person on a path of love, accpetance and in general - Trying to be a better human being. Open them up to ideas of love, understanding, openness. Helping your fellow man. And also providing them with strenght and a source of assistance in times of need. How is that not pratical?

Even the strongest man needs help now and then to help pick him back up in a time of need. To help give him the strenght and focus they need to carry forward, if they turn to a church, religion, spirituality or faith to help get them back on their feet and moving forward - how is that not pratical? why should that be seen as a flaw of character?

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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: kaniz]
    #5184524 -

Those who believe and invest faith in a blatantly nonexistent entity create danger for non-believers and themselves.


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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: kaniz]
    #5184594 -

"if they help set a person on a path of love, accpetance and in general - Trying to be a better human being. Open them up to ideas of love, understanding, openness."

That sounds like a practical end to me. I never said it was all bullshit...I said that the beliefs needed to be practical. MANY spiritual beliefs are not practical and these should be avoided.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5184600 -

"Those who believe and invest faith in a blatantly nonexistent entity"

So is belief in the divine nature in the self belief in a non-existant entity?


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5184613 -

A crutch, used temporarily, acts as a device to help aid healing.

A crutch, used permanently, suggests a disability.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5184643 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
"Those who believe and invest faith in a blatantly nonexistent entity"

So is belief in the divine nature in the self belief in a non-existant entity?


The assumption that the essence of the self is divine is purely subjective, but I was referring to those who believe that a seperate, invisible, omnipotent entity has given them the right to harm others or assume superiority over them.

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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5184672 -

itstarssaddam said:
Huehuecoyotl said:
"Those who believe and invest faith in a blatantly nonexistent entity"

So is belief in the divine nature in the self belief in a non-existant entity?


The assumption that the essence of the self is divine is purely subjective, but I was referring to those who believe that a seperate, invisible, omnipotent entity has given them the right to harm others or assume superiority over them.


Then it is the belief in such superiority which is harmful, not the belief in the entity itself.


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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5184683 -

My point was that the belief in said entity is a very strong source of encouragement for such behavior.

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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5184687 -

itstarssaddam said:
My point was that the belief in said entity is a very strong source of encouragement for such behavior.


I'd say that is entirely dependent upon one's beliefs regarding that entity's characteristics.


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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5184695 -

My statement is applicable to any religion whose doctrine and/or central figure of worship proposes a certain "path" which would be superior to any other.

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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5184709 -

itstarssaddam said:
My statement is applicable to any religion whose doctrine and/or central figure of worship proposes a certain "path" which would be superior to any other.


But the same is true of certain non-theistic beliefs. Communism, for example. Ever hear of the Red Brigade? In fact, the opposite of believing that a certain path is superior to another would be relativism, which I think is rather dangerous as well.


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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: kaniz]
    #5184710 -

Q:Why have a crutch, when you are a crutch?
A:To be ...!

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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5184889 -

Paradigm said:
But the same is true of certain non-theistic beliefs. Communism, for example.


"Belief is the death of intellegence."

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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5185573 -

Paradigm said:
itstarssaddam said:
My statement is applicable to any religion whose doctrine and/or central figure of worship proposes a certain "path" which would be superior to any other.


But the same is true of certain non-theistic beliefs. Communism, for example. Ever hear of the Red Brigade? In fact, the opposite of believing that a certain path is superior to another would be relativism, which I think is rather dangerous as well.


As silly as it may be, at least communism has some kind of foundation within reality.

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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5185687 -

itstarssaddam said:
As silly as it may be, at least communism has some kind of foundation within reality.


And yet it's inspired plenty of violence to rival that of Christianity or Islam. I fail to see how this so-called foundation in reality in any way makes up for that.


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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5185748 -

Ideologies, such as Marxism, are the secular versions of religions.

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Re: Is having a crutch so bad? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5185777 -

MushmanTheManic said:
Ideologies, such as Marxism, are the secular versions of religions.


Exactly. Fundamentalism of any kind is dangerous, with or without a supernatural entity.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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