Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery

Magic Mushrooms Zamnesia
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 |  [ show all ]
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5129813 -

It is a fact of Federal law that a product can not be sold as a cure for disease without being approved by the FDA

If I went to sell oranges to people with scurvy telling them it would cure it, I could go to jail for fraud. It would be illegal for me to do so in the U.S.

Vitamin C, which is in oranges, cures scurvy, and the FDA knows this.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5129840 -

let me put a little touch of "personal" in this thread.

my grandmother had breast cancer for the last 13 years of her life. The doctors chopped her breasts off, which didnt do anything but make her feel like less of a woman.
Then, she started eating macrobiotic foods only. She lived perfectly fine and relativly healthy with little to no pain for about 11 years. Finally, a few doctors conviced her to try chemotherapy. She died 8 months later, weighing about 105 lbs, pale as hospital sheets, vomiting and dry heaving, with not one hair on her head.

Now, maybe I would be on the other side of the fence, telling this story differently, about how she died wracked with pain because she refused to take anything but homeopathic remedies, and how stupid they are because it prevented her from getting chemotherapy..... but honestly, I would rather have told that story, than the one i just gave you.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: Diploid]
    #5129885 -

Diploid said:
It is a fact of Federal law that a product can not be sold as a cure for disease without being approved by the FDA

If I went to sell oranges to people with scurvy telling them it would cure it, I could go to jail for fraud. It would be illegal for me to do so in the U.S.
Vitamin C, which is in oranges, cures scurvy, and the FDA knows this.


I guess its as ridiculous of a notion as laetrile... aka apricot seeds/pits. The FDA not only disqualified the theory that they cure cancer, which is their job- what they should do, since there is no scientific evidence that it does so........ but they went a little further, and now I give you a task of attempting to purchase apricot seeds in the US.
seriously.... go try. You cannot obtain them legally.... which means they are outlawed. yes, once again, another seed which is outlawed.

apricot seeds do contain cyanide, but at very low levels. I couldnt find one person which has died from apricot seeds (maybe choking), but has gotten cyanide poisoning..... but then again.... how many things out there (like alchohol) can we die from, or get poisoning from- which are legal?

why would the FDA attempt to vehemently regulate apricot seeds?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5129898 -

Your points go incredibly far afield. Let's reign that in just a bit.

Do you believe that drugs and modalities of treatment should be unregulated and untested and that medical research is a waste of time?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: Swami]
    #5129903 -

Swami said:
Let's reign that in just a bit.


:lol:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5129910 -

Note that this thread was FOR HOMEOPATHY AFICIANADOS, but somehow that got mistranslated to THOSE THAT DESPISE MODERN MEDICINE.

I must get my computer repaired...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: Swami]
    #5129917 -

no, but I dont think that the FDA is infallible, nor is its sole agenda one of protection of the public, and more the protection of its members assets.
I think the FDA should exist, corruption is inevitable, but its power goes too far. They should only be the stamp of approval for testable, scientific drugs- not the regulators and restrictors of what we wish to put in our bodies.

Nor do I think that the FDA should be looked upon as infallible, causing anything which it deems medically unsound to be a basis for labelling it "absolutely no medical use whatsoever".

If the FDA scoffs at homeopathy, fine, you have just as much of a choice to believe in everything the FDA approves as I have a choice to not believe, and act accordingly.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5129923 -

why would the FDA attempt to vehemently regulate apricot seeds?

Are you sure the FDA regulates them? Apple seeds also contain cyanide, but to my knowledge, they're not regulated.

And it's interesting to note how people bitch when the FDA is too loose and some people get hurt (see Vioxx) then those same people bitch when the FDA regulates something potentially harmful.

Damed if you do, damed if you don't.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: Diploid]
    #5129938 -

I didn't say they didn't know about it. I said, it wasn't approved to legally be sold as a cure "drug" . 

Under section 201 (g)(1)(B) of the Act, articles intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease are drugs.

Lets hope oranges never end up a federally regulated drug. Can you imagine having to buy patent rights to buy the seeds and get government approval to grow an orange tree and to sell them in a farmers market?

The point is, there are lots of inexpensive natural remedies out there and people just don't know about them and take what the doctor ordered. The saddest cases are when, people can't afford doctors or the prescriptions or when doctors have nothing to prescribe and an inexpensive natural remedy is easily available and they just don't know about it because of the way our laws are set up.

My problem with it all is, the lobbying that goes on by the pharmaceutical companies that keep natural remedies from being sold as effective cures and treatments like the Tea Tree oil for pink eye.

You can't slap a patent on and own mother nature. There's no money to be made. My apologize if I aimed any frustration with the corruption within the FDA  at anyone. It's not your fault Diploid or swami that our government sucks. In the meantime, I don't want to see the sale of natural remedies making NOT making illegal claims banned either. I want as many easy, quick, inexpensive and effective options available for my health care that I can get and know about.


:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5129941 -

no, but I dont think that the FDA is infallible,
OK

Nor do I think that the FDA should be looked upon as infallible
You already said that.

I agree with your assessment, but that, of course, has NOTHING to do with the (in)validity of homeopathy.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5129951 -

so do almonds, and most fruit seeds.... which is so baffling.

You can purchase dried apricot seeds, but not live fresh ones. according to apricot enthusiasts, their seeds have the highest concentration of b17 - the vitamin thought by many to be a cure/deterrent to cancer.

Quote:
The pharmaceuticals companies together with the medical establishment pushed the FDA into making it illegal to sell "raw" apricot seeds or vitamin B17 with information about its effects on cancer. Even to this day, you can't get raw apricot seeds in your health food store, only the sun dried ones which have all the important enzymes killed off.

Pharmaceutical companies only conduct studies on patented chemicals they invent so that at the end of their study, if the drug gets approved, they have sole rights on its sale. (They make back tons more than the mere 250 million that they invested) They never do studies on foods that can't be patented and that can be sold by any supermarket.


it just doesnt make any sense why apricot seeds would be so harshly attacked.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: Swami]
    #5129962 -

Swami said:
no, but I dont think that the FDA is infallible,
OK

Nor do I think that the FDA should be looked upon as infallible
You already said that.

I agree with your assessment, but that, of course, has NOTHING to do with the (in)validity of homeopathy.


the question that I was answering, was posed by you, which didnt say anything about homeopathy.
and while those little snippets you took from my post may not address homeopathy within relevance to this thread, my post (whole) did.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: Swami]
    #5129965 -

For the record swami- I don't hate modern medicine. I hate pharms lobbying the FDA and the FDA being able to be legally bribed.

For the record diploid, I don't bitch when an FDA approved drug, laters shows to be harmful. I put the same burden of responsibility onto the buyer as i would an alternative treatment.

If people think doctors are God and never fuck up and put blind trust in them then.........

When I get prescribed a drug- I ask a shit load of questions from the doctor, then the pharmacist and before I take it, I do a web search on it. if I don't like what I hear or read, I keep asking for something else until I feel okay with any possible risk.

What good is being able to sue for mal practice if you are permanently damaged or die from a crappy script that got rushed through to market?

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5129966 -

My problem with it all is, the lobbying that goes on by the pharmaceutical companies that keep natural remedies from being sold as effective cures and treatments like the Tea Tree oil for pink eye.

I too have a big problem with any agency suppressing effective treatments, be they alternative or mainstream. BUT, any treatment that has not been showed to be effective should not be labeled as an effective treatment.

This applies to all homeopathic remedies tested so far. See the comprehensive Lancet study recently (August, 2005) published which I transcribed here.

This study is the most comprehensive done to date and the summary result is that homeopathy is a placebo (but a hell of a lot more expensive).


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: Diploid]
    #5129980 -

i dont think anyone here is suggesting that homeopathy be officially labelled an effective treatment.
the label or the official-ness of it doesnt negate all the people "cured" by it, even if it is nothing more than an expensive glass of water.
Havent you ever paid to go see a magician?

and if it is merely placebo, then your campaigns which attempt to "reveal the truth" are actually hindering someones chances for placebonic (word?) recovery.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5129988 -

i dont think anyone here is suggesting that homeopathy be officially labelled an effective treatment.

Maybe no one here is, but there's an entire industry out there that wants to and does label homeopathy efficacious. That's the main point of conflict.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: Diploid]
    #5130008 -

but I also dont think it should be officially labelled an ineffective treatment.

I think the main motivation for both opposing groups is money. One group needs the officially effective label to boost sales, while the other needs the officially ineffective label to stop or slow the syphoning off of profits.

I think when a person is sick, and is looking for a proper cure, officiality has no bearing... because, eventually, they will try whatever "cure" until dead or healed.
labelling homeopathy as a hoax will only deter popular usage, not desperate people looking for any possible remedy online.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: Diploid]
    #5130016 -

:yawn:



:popcorn:



:lurker:







:whacker:


--------------------

http://www.myspace.com/sarasotafnb
http://www.wcwtampa.com

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5130023 -

but I also dont think it should be officially labelled an ineffective treatment.

It should be labeled "Bottle Of Water".

When you start with 8 molecules of a substance, halve that to 4, then again to 2, then again to 1, then again to less than one, then again 10,000 more times, you end up with zero molecules of the substance; hence, a bottle of water.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados [Re: Diploid]
    #5130044 -

so.... shouldn't ritalin and all the ADHD drugs be labelled "amphetamine"?

what about those other bottles of water with "electrolytes".... they dont even have to label it "bottle of water", because it isnt merely a bottle of water.
When the Pope waves his hand over some water, and mumbles, it ceases to be regular water, and becomes "holy water" and can be marketed as such.

in fact, that would be interesting to look for on ebay.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 |  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* The total nonsense of Homeopathy
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )		 Swami 8,456 119 04/10/09 10:32 PM
by spyder
* Homeopathy/psych meds: revisited
( 1 2 3 all )		 SneezingPenis 2,951 42 01/22/06 06:03 PM
by Icelander
* Homeopathy
( 1 2 3 4 all )		 Swami 4,282 62 04/27/05 07:13 PM
by badchad
* alchemy and homeopathy whythewho 1,203 6 03/16/07 10:39 PM
by MarkostheGnostic
* More Homeopathy Irony OrgoneConclusion 968 6 05/15/07 09:22 PM
by Diploid
* Im doin my english final tomorrow.. Legoulash 705 4 01/17/03 05:19 AM
by Anonymous
* Meditation question
( 1 2 3 all )		 superpimp 6,849 57 12/23/11 09:00 AM
by Icelander
* THE QUESTIONS. Elvish 838 13 07/29/03 06:54 PM
by Elvish

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
6,007 topic views. 1 members, 81 guests and 12 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.024 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 16 queries.