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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Registered: 03/15/01
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Look at what we do with our lives
    #480095 - 12/04/01 11:45 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I have been having this thought recently and I wanted to share it and get some opinion. (sorry if its long)

Do you ever think about how ridiculous it is that everyone gets jobs and works in a career their whole lives? As living beings, we are obviously concerned with our well being. In the past well being meant ready access to food, shelter, and women. We probably felt a certain pleasure in hunting and gathering, etc because doing it meant satisfying your life needs. These days we arrive at this by getting jobs in order to get money to buy the things we require. We don't enjoy our jobs in the same way because the work we expend is so far removed from the reward. (I know some people actually enjoy their jobs but the fact is the vast majority don't)

As a society we spend most of our time and resources on progress. Progress toward the next technology, the next way we can make our everyday existence easier. Technology has just complicated our lives, making us slaves to our creations almost every waking minute. I doubt any of us could survive today if we didn't have even the technologies invented even in the last 100 years. Technology should serve us, not enslave us. When we first decided to take that road to material innovation, we probably envisioned our inventions freeing up our lives. For instance, if we started planting food instead of hunting it, we wouldn't have to spend all that time hunting and gathering: we could water the plants for 10 minutes and have the rest of the day to ourselves. However, it is tempting after we go down that road to keep going. One technology just leads to the next, we never sit back and enjoy the convenience each technology affords. By this stage in the game we don't even realize that we could be doing anything different. We're so caught up in this little game we've made for ourselves that it is given that each child brought into the world will grow up to contribute to humanity's store of knowledge whose sole purpose is to be a foundation for further knowledge in the future. Its like everyone in the world is always moving. We're not really going anywhere, we're all just running in a circle. Why don't we all just stop running and enjoy the fact that we're alive?

It would be nice if we lived in a world where all our daily survival needs (food, shelter, safety) are automatically met, and anything we did with our time would be for our own enjoyment, wonder, or excitement. If somebody wanted to study a science, then he would. If someone wanted to spend his life in quiet contemplation, he would. If someone wanted to party his life away, he would. If we decide, this could someday become a reality because today we are almost at the point of almost complete automation of every task that doesn't require independent thought. We could soon build farms with automated planting, harvesting, distributing networks that could feed the world with very little actual human attention. Would this world get boring? Do you think we need to be forced to do something with our lives (be it hunting our food to survive or working in an office all day to get a paycheck) in order to be happy? Do you think a society would ever work in which people did with their lives what they wanted? Or would human desire for profit, material wealth and competitiveness render this world an impossibility?

This thought is borne out of a disgust for the fact that it is getting to the point where I need to pick a career, and nothing I try really excites me the way not getting a job would.


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #480127 - 12/05/01 12:25 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Mom's gonna fix it all soon. Mom's comin' round to put it back the way it ought to be.



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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
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Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #480220 - 12/05/01 01:59 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Thats why I eagerly await the end of this "world", just like the end of the others.


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Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice


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Anonymous

Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #480265 - 12/05/01 02:44 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

The way we live with our cell phones and our cars and our busy lives is not real life.
Soon, things will be the way they were intended to be. Mother Nature will not allow this masquerade to go on much longer.

Ahh... Real life


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Invisibledisseminated5
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Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: ]
    #480275 - 12/05/01 02:55 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

To think that we, as inhabitants of this planet, think we are superior to the Earth (herself), is extremely, utterly, unbelievably narrow minded.

Try this on for size. Here in Houston, in June, for only three days, the skies opened and brought us rain. It amazes me, that rain, for only three days, brought a city of four and a half million people to an abrupt stop. There were people dying, people stranded on freeways because they were flooded on both sides, tractor trailers completely immersed in rainwater, homes destroyed, businesses closed, and on and on. In three days, we were completely overtaken by Mother Nature, and begging for mercy.


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Anonymous

Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: disseminated5]
    #480277 - 12/05/01 02:58 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Just imagine what would happen if tidal waves hit every coast in the world, every volcano active and inactive erupted, and earthquakes of extreme magnitude broke the Earth everywhere there was a plate meeting, forming new mountains and sinking some into the ocean.


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OfflineTeRzMaStA
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Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #480279 - 12/05/01 03:01 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I think it would be great if we could do what we wanted to with our time. I hate the way the world works, and I hate the government.


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Think for yourself; Question Authority


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Invisibletak
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Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: TeRzMaStA]
    #480312 - 12/05/01 03:57 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I have thought this too, i knew you were posting it before i came here. I dont know why but thats why i quit playing counter strike for hte evening and came tot he shroomery? Weird. What is the purpose of life? To live. I think ot having to do this or that would suck. We need to hunt, we need to this and that. Technology is good, untill it get excessive. If we did not need to eat, or work to eat we will say. We wouldnt need jobs, there would be no government...instead people would develop things that were nice, material objects, or service. They woul steal food maybe ? and trade. Things can get fucked up any way we go, its the law of humans...to fuck shit up. I absolutley loved the reply of "Mom's gonna fix it all soon. Mom's comin' round to put it back the way it ought to be.
" that made me smile. I hate to see the end of hte world come, because me growing up carefree, learning things, knowing this and that. This is my life, this is my world. Existance as i know it lies here. However the new beginning will be better. People nowa days are insane, maybe we were always insane, and i just picture i better past. Maybe im just insane. Maybe, maybe. who knows. I wouldnt mind wokring for my food, because then i would have to hunt, or get a job. Right now im 17 lliving at home out of shcool wihtout a job...im trying to get one but i know you can relate...laziness.... i could sleep all day wake up and do nothing. It could get a whollleee lot worse too, to the point where existance is futile :P there we go :D


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The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: tak]
    #480514 - 12/05/01 10:46 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Don't worry about getting a job, if shroomism is correct we only have 2 more years until everything is set right again, right? I don't know what post-transition life will be like, or even if it will resemble life as it is today. So enjoy life on this planet while its here and don't get caught up in the mess that is society. That's what I say.


Edited by skaMariaPastora (12/05/01 08:56 PM)


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OfflineD_Tox
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Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #480753 - 12/05/01 03:34 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

2012 is what i'm waiting for....


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D_Tox

to understand other people….to be aware
to understand animals….to be a decent person
to understand plants….. to be a refined individual
to understand the mushroom…to be enlightened


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Anonymous

Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #480757 - 12/05/01 03:37 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

To put it into a better scope, 2003 will be the beginning of the 'new world' and 2012 will be the next step.


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OfflineTimeleech
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Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #480816 - 12/05/01 04:29 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I'm actually basing my career life on the 2012 thing. Well, I Want to anyway...

But what you mention is the exact reason I stopped buying new parts for my computer every 3 months, the same reason Istopped playing games on my comp. The same reason I reduced my tv-watching to a minimun (which is exactly nil at the time, as i haven't got a tv), iv'e stopped reading the papers, just enough to know if there's anthrax in town or what my favourite celebs ar up to (just kidding).

I've also tried keeping my enthusiasm for new tech to a minimum, and made it a habit of mine to ask myself what's so great about it anyway? The key fo happiness lies not in the future, and in technology, but now, in yourself. yes yes, I know youv'e all heard that one before, but I didn't realize it untill I fully internalized it.

Yet I am still not happy with what I have done and am doing with my life. It's too hard to remember, it's too easy to forget. It also saddens me that people would rather see the world come to an end rather than a less drastic *change*. For that is what people rally want, and fear the most. Therefore it's easier if it all just ends in one giant cataclysmic something.

My theory is that sometime along the evolutionary path of humankin when our imagination was released, when the boundary of our intellect ceased to exist, the same thing happend for several negative aspects. Mostly greed, which is why "money is the root of all evil" seems so true, but money is a symbol for our greed which extends to things beyond money.

Sometimes it feels like our society is a trap.


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--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: Timeleech]
    #481171 - 12/05/01 09:11 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah I too have stopped watching TV, reading newspapers, and otherwise buying in to the dribble society force feeds us every day. I definately feel that society is a trap and once you're assimilated it is exceedingly hard to free yourself once again. I liken it to cells within an organism. Just like our body has billions of cells that each do a specific job to contribute to the well being of the organism, society contains billions of members that each do a job to contribute to the society's persistence. And in both cases the constituents (cells or individuals) depend on the existence of the superordinate entity for survival. The change away from this way of life has to be drastic, I don't think its something that could happen gradually over hundreds of years. 2012 needs to happen, and its a good thing its happening when it is before its too late.


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Offlinekosmic_charlie
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Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #481223 - 12/05/01 09:46 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

In a way I feel like I'm being pulled further and further into society's trap, but at the same time I'm managing to keep my distance. I will graduate from college in about a year and a half and I feel like my whole educational experience is just preparation for some crappy 9-5 job. Every day I ask myself what the hell I'm going to do after I graduate. Money is not very important to me so why should I join the rat race? I feel like all I need to be happy is to find a nice girl to fall in love with and just live as simply as possible, maybe in some sort of communal environment. I want to spend my life doing what makes me happy. Is there anything wrong with that? If what makes me happy doesn't fit with society's mold, then I don't want any part in this society. People are so materialistic that it makes me sad. It seems as though people fill that empty void (their lack of spirituality) with material objects. I think the most important thing missing from my life is any sense of spirituality. I think society is partly to blame for this missing piece to my life.

I feel a great degree of separation from society because I watch very little TV (only The Simpsons) and only keep up on major events in the world. I, for one, welcome the events that will supposedly occur in 2003 and 2012. It's scary to think about, especially because I don't do well with change, but it's something that needs to happen.


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Goin' where the water tastes like wine.


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InvisibleIshmael
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Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #481349 - 12/05/01 11:28 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

It may or may not be odd to anyone else, but one of the major 'tennants' of your manifesto skaMaria is: "It would be nice if we lived in a world where all our daily survival needs (food, shelter, safety) are automatically met, and anything we did with our time would be for our own enjoyment, wonder, or excitement."

This 'request' of the modern world is rather ironic as it is almost an /exact/ interpretation of most strictly tribal societies - including the few that manage to survive still. Think about it: The world produces all of your food /without work/, all you have to do is have the skill to go out an 'pluck it from the vine'. In fact, hunting gathering is technically 'easier' than agriculture. Agriculturalists spend up to ten times as many calories /working/ for their food than do hunter-gatheres. This means that hunter-gatherers have /much/ more time on theirs hands - and this is exactly what you experience if you ever talk to an anthropologist about their experiences with a 'primitive tribe'. They're always laying about, and when they do get up to find food, they're so adept at finding it that the whole affair is rather leisurely. What I find ironic is that here we are subscribing to this Redfieldian mythology where we should just keep on pushing technology so that we can mechanistically try to reproduce the situation that once existed in nature! The differences though as to which is 'superior' is rather obvious - nature doesn't 'break down' like a mechanical greenhouse can and /will/. Nature doesn't need a mechanic-class to care for it. And instead of doing what we might to try to re-establish the environments that would allows us to satiate the desires you're talking about...we're destroying them...as quickly and voraciously as is humanly possible. Why? People often destroy the things that seem to 'mock' them. Even our best mechanical efforts to 'liberate' ourselves as a society from 'work' will fail miserably in comparison to the exquisite simplistic system we call: "The Natural World".

Ish


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InvisibleKid
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Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #481457 - 12/06/01 01:06 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

> Do you ever think about how ridiculous it is that everyone gets jobs and works in a career their whole lives? As living beings, we are obviously concerned with our well being.

I don't think it's ridiculous. We have our system. There are two choices: to live with it or not live with it. If you don't live with it you probably will have a tough existence (maybe not). Living in the system you will probably have a better existence (more secure). You choose to live in the system because of its stability.

Where this system came from, and why it's considered the prime example of modern life, is what I think is ridiculous.


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OfflineTimeleech
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Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: Ishmael]
    #482511 - 12/07/01 12:11 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

It has struck me too, that when you watch nature films about primates, they usually just chill out, esp. gorillas. And what about whales, they only seem to be swimming through the water with their mouths open! Big cats; they sleep most of the time, and their hunting mostly consists of sitting still followed by a short sprint.

I sometimes wonder, if youv'e ever read "The Wheel of Time" books, that time repeats itself in a way. What if some ancient race on the planet deviced a technology so powerful that they could live like the tribes you mention, what if this "technology" was nature as we experience it here on earth? Something might have happened, I don't know what, they destroyed their old civilization (voulantarily or not) and went off to live in the forest. Time passed, and they eventually forgot about their now ancient roots, they remained only in legends (which are the pictures and tales of gods (sometimes interpreted as aliens, by Erich von D?niken for example).
As our civilization nears it's doom this whole cycle might, or might not repeat itself. I find this to be an interesting theory.


--------------------
--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: Timeleech]
    #482583 - 12/07/01 01:24 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

That's a really interesting idea, I've never thought of that before. I don't think as a society we'd ever give up technology altogether though. More likely, however, is a small group of enlightened (?) individuals leaving the mainstream society to form an idealistic society of their own that reverts back to the beginning (maybe traveling to another planet). Perhaps humanity is the result of some other planet's castways.


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OfflineTimeleech
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Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #482785 - 12/07/01 09:19 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

>Perhaps humanity is the result of some other planet's castways.
That's something Iv'e heard many a time from my father. He kind of fuses some stuff from the bible (Noah's Ark), Nostradamus and Erich von D?niken. He thinks the Ark really was a suitcase (theory's been updated to a computer now...) with raw genes, the material of all living species on earth.
The idea is that the story about the fall that prevails throughout most cultures really is the story of how humankin was expelled from their home. And that we were genetically created by some alien species. There were two fractions, some wished to destroy us for we were "faulty",but someone (the Noah figure) thoght we were worthy of another chance to cure/medicate/fix ourselves.
This certainly makes what we are doing with our lives look quite, I don't know, inapropriate? Like wev'e missed the point totally (although we are beyond doubt on our way to genetic self-modification, but will it be to the better?)

>That's a really interesting idea, I've never thought of that before. I don't think as a society we'd ever give up technology altogether though. More likely, however, is a small group of enlightened (?) individuals leaving the mainstream society to form an idealistic society of their own that reverts back to the beginning (maybe traveling to another planet).

I think the ones who pursue technology will be the ones who leave. The others will stay here and help healing the wounds we all left on mother earth. Some of us will become children of the stars, some will become children of the earth. Here another loop might happen: What if after 10.000 years or so the ones who left return, maybe the earth-dwellers will have become quite "primitive" again. And yet again we will see the mythos of gods from the sky, coming to teach us things.

If I take this even further there might not be a beginning, nor end. Perhaps this has been going on forever, and will forevermore be our destiny. It would be quite apropriate, wouldn't it? In the dualistic nature of life. We are both the cause and the effect, we might be the ones teaching ourselves how to evolve. And *that*, that would definatly put our lives into another perspective. It certainly makes it alot more futile for me...

I just had to write this down, as I think the thought would've slipped away otherwise...


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Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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OfflineAxiom420
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Re: Look at what we do with our lives [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #483497 - 12/07/01 09:52 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

there are over 6,000,000,000 of us fuckers here to just keep on fucking. yeah, a hunter-gather lifestyle would be really cool. but come on now. think. how many acres of this planet, on average, would it take to sustain just one hunter-gatherer?less in a tropical rainforest than in greenland (check out my post about the "great conopy" in the atlantis found post).

so, the question is: how many hunter-gatherers can the earth support? i think that like 6000+ years ago when man started moving together into communites that the earth was not yet near carrying its compacity. that, due to the nature of man to be social. it is also reaonable to think that the last ice age, great flood, or "that event" disturbed the earth's ability to grow plants, therefore animals and humans. that would indicate that the carrying capacity of the earth was rather low. it takes many years for a wasted area of the planet to begin growing living things. the planet would then have started to be able to provide for more and more humans.

agriculture, increased the carrying capacity of the earth. we then became and are now and far in to the future will be dependant on agriculture.

with fewer natural disruptances (i.e. things like global flood, volcanos, meteors, ice age, whatever) the climate of the planet has indisputably become more mild during the recent (last 15,000+years) histroy of earth. agriculture has increased because of that. we now have more agriculturally productive land than ever before. we have more than we need at present. the u.s. government pays farmers to keep some of their fields fallow. too much extra food would disrupt the price on the market, and the market price for food affects the farmers ability to keep producing food. modern farming techniques have made things so that farmers could farm themselves out of business.

but like i said...over 6,000,000,000 fuckers fucking. do some projected math on that shit. things are just going to get more fragile, even if we stopped screwing with the health of the planet.

if christ doesn't return soon we may end up living in a world that loosing or increasing any amout of solar radiation penetrating the atmosphere could be deadly for millions of people due to the decrease in food for the animals and humans. one volcano thats too big could do it. a few massive explosions of any sort could do it. unusual sun activity could do it. the balance will get more and more fragile. but if we kill 80% of us in world war 3 really soon here then we'd have a few more centuries. at any rate you guys need to get your heads out of sci-fi land for a bit and read some fact and data that affects this stuff, 'cause we arn't going to blast off and terraform the moon or mars or any shit like that any time too soon and we sure as hell can't be hunter-gaterers anymore.

peace.


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"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
- Albert Einstein


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