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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming
    #4698783 - 09/23/05 02:26 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

This is global warming, says environmental chief
As Hurricane Rita threatens devastation, scientist blames climate change
By Michael McCarthy, Environment Editor
Published: 23 September 2005
Super-powerful hurricanes now hitting the United States are the "smoking gun" of global warming, one of Britain's leading scientists believes.

The growing violence of storms such as Katrina, which wrecked New Orleans, and Rita, now threatening Texas, is very probably caused by climate change, said Sir John Lawton, chairman of the Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution. Hurricanes were getting more intense, just as computer models predicted they would, because of the rising temperature of the sea, he said. "The increased intensity of these kinds of extreme storms is very likely to be due to global warming."

In a series of outspoken comments - a thinly veiled attack on the Bush administration, Sir John hit out at neoconservatives in the US who still deny the reality of climate change.

Referring to the arrival of Hurricane Rita he said: "If this makes the climate loonies in the States realise we've got a problem, some good will come out of a truly awful situation."

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article314510.ece


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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Registered: 07/27/05
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Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: Alex213]
    #4698798 - 09/23/05 02:35 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I notice hes not a "Doctor", but a Sir. Mick Jagger is a "sir".


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: Alex213]
    #4698827 - 09/23/05 02:41 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Perhaps the answer is that the sun is burning a bit hotter than usual.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4699428 - 09/23/05 09:04 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MagicalMystery said:
I notice hes not a "Doctor", but a Sir.  Mick Jagger is a "sir".




:rolleyes:

Is that honestly the best you can come up with?

Can't fault the data, so fault the source, eh?

Just because somone is Knighted, doesn't mean they weren't a doctor in the first place...

In the case of Sir John Lawton, he received his PhD from the University of Durham in 1969. So yes, he is a doctor.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: Alex213]
    #4699452 - 09/23/05 09:24 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Even if the storms are caused by global warming, there is still no conclusive evidence that global warming is caused by mankind.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: Seuss]
    #4699479 - 09/23/05 09:33 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

True, but do you have much doubt in your mind?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: trendal]
    #4699680 - 09/23/05 10:52 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I have a very large amount of doubt that it is because of mankind. I believe it may be sped up, but certainly not caused by us. I believe that would be giving ourselves far too much credit.


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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 Arcade Champion: Airfox

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: Redstorm]
    #4699888 - 09/23/05 11:54 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Mothernature is going kick our asses, just as she's kicked the asses of every other super-successful species before us. Then when we're beaten and our unsustainable economy in shambles, we'll say, "Oh."


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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #4699901 - 09/23/05 11:59 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I think the climate loonies will still be saying it wasn't down to us tho.


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OfflineAngeloWish
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Registered: 07/13/05
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Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #4700016 - 09/23/05 12:22 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I think it is really a mater of global warming and we are just spectating the begining... didn't we know 'all of this' was going to happend?? Stay tuned and watch the modern world colapse... ok maybe im just being too apocaliptical... who knows

if you wanna check out realtime solar info:
http://www.n3kl.org/sun/noaa.html


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+'this' reality is the one i like the most+


Edited by AngeloWish (09/23/05 12:30 PM)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: trendal]
    #4700163 - 09/23/05 12:56 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

> True, but do you have much doubt in your mind?

Yes, actually I do. I honestly believe that the earth would currently be going through a period of global warming even if mankind did not exist. I suspect that mankinds actions are helping this process along, but I do not believe that mankinds actions are 100% responsible for the process. Of course, what I think is just as lame as what all the other people think... until proof is found, it is just a theory.

Here are a few a good questions for all of the "mankind caused global warming" crowd... why did the ice age end? Why did the ice age start? I assume it wasn't because of the burning fossil fuel pollution.... so what caused it?


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
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Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: Seuss]
    #4700181 - 09/23/05 01:01 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

What would you propose to do about mans effect on global warming?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: Seuss]
    #4700221 - 09/23/05 01:18 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Here are a few a good questions for all of the "mankind caused global warming" crowd... why did the ice age end? Why did the ice age start? I assume it wasn't because of the burning fossil fuel pollution.... so what caused it?

As I understand it, ice-ages run in cycles so there was no "the" ice age. I am also under the impression that, following the ice-age cycles, we should be heading into another period of glaciation for the next 11,000 years or so.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: trendal]
    #4700231 - 09/23/05 01:23 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Only 11,000 years? Wow, I'd better start stocking up on warm clothing.


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: Alex213]
    #4701924 - 09/23/05 08:14 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Earth has warmed and cooled even in the short time we have been taking data.

Global warming from 1900-1940 melted half of the Mt. Kilimanjaro ice cap. Then from 1940-1960 we actually went through a global cooling period and yes, the doomsayers were predicting the end of the world due to global cooling, look it up.

Now, due to sunspot activity, we are in a warming trend no faster than previously seen from 1900-1940. In a few years, this cycle is expected to begin dying down and we should stabilize or cool off a bit.

Of course, the mean global temp. differences from year to year are so small that the margin of error is usually larger than the difference, therefore it should be taken with a grain of salt anyways.


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Invisiblemoog
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Registered: 02/15/05
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Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: Alex213]
    #4701986 - 09/23/05 08:36 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I wouldn't worry about planetary warming until the ice age comes.

Also, shouldn't this be in the science forum?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: moog]
    #4702036 - 09/23/05 08:48 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Also, shouldn't this be in the science forum?




Yes, of course it should be in the Science Forum as should the several dozen previous global warming threads and all the many threads about "peak oil". However, if I were to move it to the Science Forum all the Lefties would throw a hissy fit that I was indulging in "biased moderating" and "censorship" and "hiding the truth" because of my "political orientation" blah blah blah, so the thread stays. As will the next several dozen threads about global warming that are started roughly every four days or so.

Get used to it.




Phred


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: trendal]
    #4702083 - 09/23/05 08:56 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Can't fault the data, so fault the source, eh?





What percentage of greenhouse gasses are produced by humans?


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: moog]
    #4702155 - 09/23/05 09:14 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

moog said:
Also, shouldn't this be in the science forum?




The article mentions Lawton's critism of the Bush administration, so it is rather political.


When it comes to the environment, it certainly is important to play it more safe than sorry. I'm not the kind of person who is over the top with environmentalism, but there is plenty of proof of the potential damage that can occur from pollution. Take acid rain, for example. Burning off too much sulfer oxides and nitrogen oxides causes a change in the pH of water, which in turn can be harmful to plant life, as well as animals. The change isn't localized either, but can be carried over large areas.

Or just look at air pollution & Los Angelos, or Kingston, NY, which is somewhat close to me. The sky around sunset is often grey, and it's clear that there is damage occuring.

So I think ultimately, whether or not global warming is occuring, people shouldn't take excessive risks with pollution. I don't have an answer as to where that line should be drawn, but I think people in environmental studies could give a better answer.


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The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
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Re: Hurricanes "smoking gun" of global warming [Re: Phred]
    #4702204 - 09/23/05 09:21 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

What percentage of the global warming phenomenon could be attributed to the hot air that gets expelled in this forum?


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