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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Global Warming?
    #1714926 - 07/14/03 06:00 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Oh for a crystal ball to know who is right.


Climatologist Debunks 'Alarmist' Claims of Global Warming
Marc Morano, CNSNews.com
Monday, July 14, 2003
WASHINGTON ? Climatologist Patrick J. Michaels says fears of catastrophic global warming are scientifically unfounded and "alarmist." Any climate change that does occur would not affect Earth or its inhabitants in any significant way, he said.
"The science is settled in a very non-alarmist way," Michaels told CNSNews.com. He predicted that his message would not be well received by many in the climate debate.

"A non-alarmist way is politically very unpopular in Washington, D.C.," he said.

Michaels, author of the book "Satanic Gasses: Clearing the Air about Global Warming" and an environmental sciences professor at the University of Virginia, was the featured speaker at a luncheon sponsored by Cato Institute on Friday.

"Scientific data really tells us how much it is going to warm over the next 100 years, and it's going to be at the low end of the projections, and people will adapt as long as their economies are free. We have been adapting for a long time," Michaels explained.

He said he expected a negligible warm-up and pointed to the past 100 years as proof that any effects of potential increased global temperatures would be negligible.

"As the planet warmed up about 1 degree Fahrenheit in the last 100 years, the life span in the industrialized democracies went from 40 to 80 [years], and crop yields doubled. Global warming did not cause that, but it didn't stop it either," Michaels said.

Instead of being concerned about potential climate change, people should "worry about something that is really a serious problem," he said.

The whole debate over climate change is over, according to Michaels.

"You would think I would tire of shooting fish in barrels, but it's still fun, and that is what's going on here," Michaels said.

If the U.N. Says It's True, It Must Be True


Debbie Boger, an energy expert with Sierra Club, dismissed Michaels' claim that the debate is over.

"We need to remember both the National Academy of Sciences and the U.N.'s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change have both come out with reports saying global warming is a real phenomenon, caused by human-made emissions and will have real consequences," Boger told CNSNews.com.

"To say there will be not be consequences is putting our heads in the sand," she said.

Secular 'Religion'

Michaels called the persistent belief in catastrophic global warming "a religion" and said that is why he has faced so much opposition to his scientific work.

"If you say something against a religion, people yell out at you. People wonder why I drive a [low-emission] hybrid car ? they would never blow up a hybrid car," he said to laughter.

What Happened to That Recent 'Ice Age'?

Michaels outlined three periods of atmospheric change in the last 100 years of U.S. history, noting a warming in the first part of the 20th century, a cooling in the middle part of the century and a warming in the latter part of the century.

"There is the cooling of the mid-20th century that gave rise to congressional hearings in the mid-1970s about the coming ice age, and [scientists were asked], 'Could you use a couple billion dollars to study this?'" Michaels said.

The money politicized the scientific process and "consume billions of dollars of your money," he said.

"The more money you throw at [climate science], the less certainty you get. If you shut off all the money, the scientists would probably all agree," he said.

The scientific proof that man could not affect our environment with emissions of greenhouse gases in any catastrophic way already exists, Michaels believes.

"Paleo records indicate that the concentration of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide in the atmosphere was up to 14 times higher than it is today when the Earth was but 8 degrees Celsius warmer than it is today," Michaels said, referring to the climate of millions of years ago.

There is no way we can get Earth that hot again, he said, even "if we burn everything as fast as we could."

Earth was not unpleasant during the period of high CO2 concentrations and higher temperatures, according to Michaels.

"The planet was greener than a [casino] crap table. That is where all that coal came from that we are burning now," he explained.

Michaels does not expect the media to portray climate change as anything but catastrophic. "The media are either very untrained in the field or really are looking the other way," Michaels said.

"Unfortunately, they have pumped this mindset up so much that it is very clear that people are beginning to get ... apocalyptic fatigue," he said.

'Plutonian Global Warming'

Chris Horner, a senior fellow at the free-market environmental think tank Competitive Enterprise Institute, attended the luncheon and pointed to the recent scientific indications that the planet Pluto is warming despite moving away from the sun.

"Pluto's warm-up is a reminder that no matter where you are climate happens. It always has, it always will - with or without SUVs. And it should remind us to continue taking with an ever-increasing grain of salt these claims that your car acts as a weather machine," Horner said.

Horner predicted that it would not be long before environmentalists came up with a theory on why Pluto was warming.

"There will be inevitably and likely imminent claims that mankind is also causing Plutonian global warming," he said.

Copyright CNSNews.com


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
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Re: Global Warming? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1716400 - 07/14/03 11:53 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

the global warming debate is fucked up, every side has their own scientist proving that they are right.

the world needs more independant scientists.

The thing is, even it does warm just a little, that will cause massive death, the old and young are allready dying in many areas during heat waves (people start dying at around 45 celcius), you crank that up 8 degrees, and its gonna be mayhem. Imagine tokyo hitting 56 celcius.....i doubt many industries would be able to function, because the more air conditioning you use....the hotter it gets.


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: Global Warming? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1716410 - 07/14/03 11:54 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

"As the planet warmed up about 1 degree Fahrenheit in the last 100 years, the life span in the industrialized democracies went from 40 to 80 [years], and crop yields doubled. Global warming did not cause that, but it didn't stop it either,"

Earth was not unpleasant during the period of high CO2 concentrations and higher temperatures, according to Michaels.

"The planet was greener than a [casino] crap table. That is where all that coal came from that we are burning now," he explained.


Two very good points made in a good article. Thanks luvdem.


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If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
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Re: Global Warming? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1716800 - 07/15/03 01:22 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Global warming could trigger mass extinction

Press Association
Thursday June 19, 2003

Rising global temperatures over the next century could trigger a catastrophe to rival the worst mass extinction in the history of the planet, leading British scientists warned today.
Researchers at Bristol University say their studies show that six degrees of global warming was enough to wipe out up to 95% of the species which were alive on earth at the end of the Permian period, 250 million years ago.

Up to six degrees of warming is now predicted for the next 100 years by United Nations scientists from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), if nothing is done about emissions of greenhouse gases, principally carbon dioxide, the chief cause of global warming.

This compares with a 0.6C rise over the last century, according to the IPCC.

The Permian mass extinction is thought to have been caused by gigantic volcanic eruptions that triggered a runaway greenhouse effect and nearly put an end to life on Earth.

Conditions in what geologists have termed this "post-apocalyptic greenhouse" were so severe that only one large land animal species was left alive and it took 100 million years for species diversity to return to former levels.

This dramatic new finding is revealed in a book by Bristol University's head of earth sciences, Professor Michael Benton. When Life Nearly Died chronicles the geological efforts leading up to the discovery and its potential implications.

Prof Benton, who was scientific advisor to the blockbuster BBC series Walking With Dinosaurs, said: "The end-Permian crisis nearly marked the end of life. It's estimated that fewer than one in 10 species survived.

"Geologists are only now coming to appreciate the severity of this global catastrophe and to understand how and why so many species died out so quickly."

Other climate experts say they are concerned that a disaster of such magnitude could be repeated within this century because of human activities.

Global warming author Mark Lynas, who recently travelled around the world witnessing the current impacts of climate change, said the findings must be a wake up call for politicians and citizens alike.

He said: "This is a global emergency. We are heading for disaster and yet the world is on fossil fuel autopilot. There needs to be an immediate phase-out of coal, oil and gas and a phase in of clean energy sources. People can no longer ignore this looming catastrophe."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,980560,00.html


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: Global Warming? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1717094 - 07/15/03 03:40 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

So, okay, lets just keep being wasteful and drive our big ass SUV's until it really causes a problem.

Respect the environment ... err


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global Warming? [Re: angryshroom]
    #1717474 - 07/15/03 06:58 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

That reminds me, i have to get my SUV washed. Thanks.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Global Warming? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1717728 - 07/15/03 10:34 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

yeah... so this is a lesson is sloppy thinking. even if carbon dioxide is good for plants, and even if it only kills some old people, and even if warming isn't even happening-- we're kill living in polluted air, with increasingly polluted water, with all kinds of gross creep crawlies in our beef and mercury in our fish, etc., etc. not to mention nuclear waste. so what I'm getting at is that fighting tooth and nail to let american greed off the proverbial hook of global warming is a half assed and poorly thought out goal, as it doesn't make for grounds for a rebuttal to environmentalists. no, you neo con bastards aren't sheding some grown up reason (as you'd fancy) on the situation, you're just squirming on the hook of gluttony.
.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global Warming? [Re: Malachi]
    #1717842 - 07/15/03 12:19 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

WTF are you talking about?


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Global Warming? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1717870 - 07/15/03 12:35 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

What exactly do you want everyone to do inny? Just go "Oh, it's all nonsense, forget about it, let the corporations pollute to their hearts content" and then in 100 years have your kids going "Fuck me, the planets completly fucked"?

Don't you think it might be best to err on the side of extreme caution on this matter?


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global Warming? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1717876 - 07/15/03 12:40 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

What exactly do you want everyone to do inny? Just go "Oh, it's all nonsense, forget about it, let the corporations pollute to their hearts content" et al




no you got me wrong, i'm confused as to WTF he is talking about. Sounds just like random rambling.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: Global Warming? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1717878 - 07/15/03 12:42 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

The Sun could be to blame for Global Warming

Actually this topic will be on the Discovery Channel Fri at 9 pm EST


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Global Warming? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1717886 - 07/15/03 12:50 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I'm always a bit skittish of these "global warming doesn't exist" articles. You can imagine the corporations pumping an awful lot of money into the pockets of anyone who says that.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Global Warming? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1717893 - 07/15/03 12:55 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I can understand you being skittish.

That's how many also feel when we see all those "the sky is falling" type articles warning of doom and gloom if we don't change our ways instantly.

The truth is no-one can be certain.

So while we shouldn't go out of our way to pollute, neither should we give up our cars and air conditioners until there is a MAJOR consensus.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global Warming? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1717897 - 07/15/03 01:00 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

That's how many also feel when we see all those "the sky is falling" type articles warning of doom and gloom if we don't change our ways instantly.




You took the words right out of my mouth.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Global Warming? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1718284 - 07/15/03 03:27 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
Quote:

That's how many also feel when we see all those "the sky is falling" type articles warning of doom and gloom if we don't change our ways instantly.




You took the words right out of my mouth. 




How about an article that claims: "THE SKY MIGHT BE FALLING!" warning of the possibility of doom and gloom and all sorts of great and terrible potentialities if we don't change our ways gradually but steadily?

:grin: 


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global Warming? [Re: hongomon]
    #1718298 - 07/15/03 03:30 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

The point was that there might be other reasons beyond our control.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Global Warming? [Re: hongomon]
    #1718301 - 07/15/03 03:30 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

No sorry, that won't help.

A consensus of scientists will. That isn't there yet.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Global Warming? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1718414 - 07/15/03 04:03 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I didn't see that point made specifically, though I know that's a common reason to be skeptical of OUR contribution to the problem, not to mention of if there is one. All the more reason for a nice, flaccid article like I suggested.

Are you prepared to maybe suffer an allegedly terrible global catastrophe???

There are a lot of even-handed articles out there, that don't wind up all flimsy like the one I'm (jokingly) suggesting. One good one I read, can't remember where, explored the two ways the problem is being addressed--prevention AND mitigation. Most of the resistence I see is to the issue of prevention. For one thing, prevention generally requires local sacrifices with any results, if there are to be any, seen at a global level. For example, if you were to trade in your SUV for a scooter (I know you've been thinking about it), the emissions reductions would factor into the big picture.

But mitigation is different. Local actions promise local results. People like that. And, it leaves the blame game aside and focuses on the less-controversial area of climate change--whether it's happening. (Notice I said "less" controversial. Less scientists doubt that there are long-term changes than that humans are the cause.)

But mitigation only looks at what can be done to lessen the effects of changes once they happen. Like, making sure everyone in lowlying areas knows how to swim. Plus, it's not as fun to argue about.


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Global Warming? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1718425 - 07/15/03 04:06 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, a consensus of scientists on any issue would help resolve that issue. How often does that happen?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: Global Warming? [Re: hongomon]
    #1718451 - 07/15/03 04:17 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Are you prepared to maybe suffer an allegedly terrible global catastrophe???




if you're asking me to live in fear i'm going to have to pass, i don't fall for the "we're all gonna die" arguments many on this site regergitate.

the same can be said for the belief in God "Are you prepared to maybe suffer an allegedly terrible fate in hell?" :smirk:



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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