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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
More fantasies about global warming
    #2054323 - 10/29/03 07:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Submarine data suggests the polar ice has thinned as much as 40 per cent since the 1960s.

Arctic to lose all summer ice by 2100



But hey...have faith...the market will lead us home. Whatever we do, we can't use democracy/government to force a collective change over today's trends. That would be unenlightened. Several universities have come to the conclusion that a small cabal of unelected profiteers chasing their own self enrichment is smarter than an objective, collective decision taken by all the stakeholders to decide a broad social direction.

So pump that oil, slam that public transit and cut the pentagon's legal requirements to obey environmental regs. The market will lead us home. The FREE market.

Global warming is just some communist plot to scare us into accepting partial birth abortions anyways.








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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: More fantasies about global warming [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2054359 - 10/29/03 07:33 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

How about this...

Sun in frenzy since 1940, Germans say
Drudgereport, Wed Oct 29 2003 10:05:09 ET

German scientists who have created a 1,000-year-record of sunspots said Wednesday they discovered the Sun has been in a frenzy since 1940 and this may be a factor in global warming.

The research, based on the quantities of the isotope beryllium 10 found in ice bores from Greenland and the Antarctic, challenges the belief that carbon dioxide from cars and coal fires and other greenhouse gases are the only cause of recent warmer climates.

The team from the Max Planck Institute for Aeronomy in Germany and Finland's Oulu University discovered a past phase of elevated sunspot activity between 1100 and 1250, though there were far fewer sunspots then than today.

The earth was very warm at that time and Vikings were recorded as farming on Greenland.

A gas cloud from one of the largest flares ever seen on the Sun reached the Earth this week causing a magnetic storm that disrupted radio and radar systems, forcing safety authorities to space out airline traffic. More flares and disruption are expected.

The findings, which are to appear in the December issue of Physical Review Letters, chart sunspots back to the year 850. Sunspots were first observed in the early 17th century after the discovery of the telescope.

Astronomers have made on-again-off-again notes ever since of the spots, where the Sun's surface appears darker because magnetic fields disrupt the outflow of energy from the star's interior. Most of the surface is 5,800 degrees celsius, but a spot is 1,500 degrees colder.

The 11-year cycle of sunspots from strong to weak to strong again is well known to anyone using shortwave radio, but the long-term fluctation was not plain.

The team said the surge of spots and gas flares since 1940 was the greatest in the entire period checked. The activity was 2.5 times the long-term average. Solar activity matched average temperatures on the Earth, they added.

Radioactive beryllium 10 used for the readings comes from cosmic rays bombarding nitrogen and oxygen in the air. The element falls to the ground with rain and snow. Layers are preserved in the ice caps.

Sunspots block cosmic rays from reaching the Earth, meaning less beryllium and increased ultraviolet radiation.

The statement Wednesday noted a much-discussed Danish hypothesis suggesting cosmic radiation helps tiny particles to form in air, increasing cloud formation. Sunspots would thus mean fewer clouds.

Sami K. Solanki, director of the German institute, said the team had discovered a new climate influence, but still believed recent climate change was mainly the result of mankind using more and more fossil fuels.

``Even after our findings, I would say the sharp increase in global temperatures since 1980 can still be mainly attributed to the greenhouse effect arising from carbon dioxide,'' professor Solanki said.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
Sober Surfer
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 11,520
Loc: North Carolina
Re: More fantasies about global warming [Re: Evolving]
    #2054477 - 10/29/03 08:15 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

interesting.

"Sami K. Solanki, director of the German institute, said the team had discovered a new climate influence, but still believed recent climate change was mainly the result of mankind using more and more fossil fuels.

``Even after our findings, I would say the sharp increase in global temperatures since 1980 can still be mainly attributed to the greenhouse effect arising from carbon dioxide,'' professor Solanki said."




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Religion is for people who are afraid of going to Hell; spirituality is for those who have been there.


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: More fantasies about global warming [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #2054926 - 10/29/03 10:34 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

And to think only 30 years ago most of the people who believe in global warming thought the world was heading to an ice age.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: More fantasies about global warming [Re: d33p]
    #2055409 - 10/30/03 12:47 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

One thing is for certain, whatever perceived 'bad' things that may happen on the planet earth, there will always be those who's first reaction is to blame it on human action. In the old days, the religious priestcraft told us that we offended the gods. In modern times the 'secular' priestcraft say we have offended nature. Both have the characteristic of certitude in their assertions, and both have the characteristic of ignoring the extent of their ignorance. Both underuse the phrase, "I don't know."


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineSquirtle
journeyman
Registered: 01/06/00
Posts: 83
Loc: Boston
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: More fantasies about global warming [Re: Evolving]
    #2055466 - 10/30/03 01:04 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

it is true that humans as a species have a tendancy to try to place the blame of natural occurances upon sources other than nature. that said, it cannot be argued that human civilization in the past 100 years has not effected the earth in more fundamental ways than a species ever has before. scientific american just published and article on globar warming that should at least cause us to stop and take notice, if not start worrying. maybe the industrialists are right; maybe the increased global temperatures are a result of natural processes. personnally, i think this is wishful thinking. as george soros sees the current actions of the U.S. as a harbinger of things to come, i think current environmental situation will only decline unless some significant actions are taken. note to W, just sign the damn kyoto treaty......


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: More fantasies about global warming [Re: Squirtle]
    #2055577 - 10/30/03 01:32 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Squirtle said:
... it cannot be argued that human civilization in the past 100 years has not effected the earth in more fundamental ways than a species ever has before.



Why not? Do you have accurate and complete information of the 5 billion or so odd years of the history of the planet?

Quote:

scientific american just published and article on globar warming that should at least cause us to stop and take notice, if not start worrying.



We should always take notice. We should also be aware that wherever we direct our attention, it is always selective and our perception is limited.

Quote:

i think current environmental situation will only decline unless some significant actions are taken.



Some things have significantly improved in the last half century. Not all developments are negative. 'We' have already taken significant action and more will be done. The sky is not falling and it would appear from all the evidence that the earth has always been in a state of flux. Be careful of pissing in the wind, it may be less troublesome and more rational to pick the proper place before pulling out your tallywhacker and making a mess of things.

Quote:

... note to W, just sign the damn kyoto treaty......



Note to Squirtle, treaties must be ratified by the congress. Also, try to make yourself aware of unintended consequences and the foolishness of acting out from a position of ignorance.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: More fantasies about global warming [Re: Evolving]
    #2055775 - 10/30/03 02:36 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Evolving:
Why not? Do you have accurate and complete information of the 5 billion or so odd years of the history of the planet?

Come on, Evolving. Besides a semantic game of whether it "cannot be argued"--do you have any examples of species that might offer us some competition?


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/13/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: More fantasies about global warming [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2056143 - 10/30/03 04:33 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Did you see the amazing auroras from the x17 flare that hit? You could see them in Texas and even Florida.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2003-10/30/content_1151101.htm

Pretty wacky stuff indeed.


--------------------


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: More fantasies about global warming [Re: hongomon]
    #2057522 - 10/30/03 04:37 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hongomon said:
Evolving:
Why not? Do you have accurate and complete information of the 5 billion or so odd years of the history of the planet?

Come on, Evolving. Besides a semantic game of whether it "cannot be argued"--do you have any examples of species that might offer us some competition?




Well how you do you think an ice age occurs. Humans have never caused one yet there have been some in the history of the earth. Nature changes rapidly and drastically without human influence.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: More fantasies about global warming [Re: d33p]
    #2057783 - 10/30/03 05:58 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Tell me how an ice age occurs. I'm sure if this planet had no humans, it would still be a very dynamic system, changing rapidly and drastically. Humans have, however, caused rapid and drastic changes. Squirtle is saying that our species has had a greater effect on the planet in the last hundred years than any other species ever has. I think it's a safe assumption, but I'm open to examples that suggest otherwise.


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: More fantasies about global warming [Re: hongomon]
    #2058054 - 10/30/03 07:14 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

From what some scientists have been after to prove about the weather history of our planet the data shows that the temperature and other conditions have changed dramatically.

And i would disagree about the human species causing the greatest change. When life began to form in the great oceans alge formed. They converted the predominatly carbon dioxide rich air into oxygen. This allowed for further human life. Without this occur little would have been possible.

You should read some of Bear's essay on this sublect, he makes some good points.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/13/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: More fantasies about global warming [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2058129 - 10/30/03 07:34 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

http://msnbc.com/news/986933.asp?0cv=CB10

Yer my hero.. Yer my Nero... Mr. President. *salute*

Senate rejects global warming cap

Bill challenged President Bush; sponsors vow to continue


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Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: More fantasies about global warming [Re: d33p]
    #2059254 - 10/31/03 01:21 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, I thought about the primeval soup days, back when there were only a handful of species. Converting CO2 to O2 and starting up the whole carbon cycle was definitely significant. Who's Bear?


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: More fantasies about global warming [Re: hongomon]
    #2059630 - 10/31/03 03:34 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

And to think only 30 years ago most of the people who believe in global warming thought the world was heading to an ice age.




i am sorry this does not fit in with your conservative viewpoint d33p, but you clearly are not well read on this matter. the issue is climate change, not global warming.

why doesn't everyone go read up on the ipcc website (google it) which accounts for 99% of all climatologists on earth's findings?

and as for whether humans have had the greatest impact, how many other single species have single handedly been responsible for one of the six mass extinctions in earth's history?


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 22,840
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 4 months, 23 days
Re: More fantasies about global warming [Re: Tao]
    #2059636 - 10/31/03 03:36 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

0


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: More fantasies about global warming [Re: Tao]
    #2060796 - 10/31/03 03:55 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Aw hell, you've convinced me. Lets give all the oil companies medals.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: More fantasies about global warming [Re: Tao]
    #2062897 - 11/01/03 04:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


i am sorry this does not fit in with your conservative viewpoint d33p, but you clearly are not well read on this matter. the issue is climate change, not global warming.




Look at the topic of thread and tell me what the issue is, dick. And did i ever say my view on this was conservative. If you can just infer that then you must be a fucking genius. And tha fact still remains many of the alarmists who cry global warming said the planet was headed to an ice age 30 years ago.

Quote:


and as for whether humans have had the greatest impact, how many other single species have single handedly been responsible for one of the six mass extinctions in earth's history?




If alge had not converted the co2 rich air in o2 no land aerobic species would have ever formed. I think that is more significant that the death of 6 species which occurs by itself naturally. Or what about lichen without that no plant life would have ever formed on land


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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