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Offlineph30n1x
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marijuana mental illness???
    #4586503 - 08/27/05 04:21 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

ive been hearing some things about marijuana causing mental illness/problems. this kid i know said it causes schisofrania. is it true that weed causes mental illnesses of any kind? if so which illnesses? thanks


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Offlinebumper
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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: ph30n1x]
    #4586574 - 08/27/05 04:52 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

None that I know of, I will let you know if I come down with something, so far I'm on a 16 year test.
No metal illness as of yet.


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OfflineBoringNickName
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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: bumper]
    #4586614 - 08/27/05 05:12 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It can trigger a pre-existing condition, however it won't cause one.

Same with shrooms.


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Offline3six5
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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: BoringNickName]
    #4586819 - 08/27/05 09:53 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

all that thc blocking up those serotonin receptors can cause mood disorders/swings and depression.. but any real long lasting mental illness, no


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OfflineThePredator
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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: 3six5]
    #4587172 - 08/27/05 01:21 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Nothing can cause schizofrenia, its a genetical disease. In rats though they have found that it gives a schizofreniform but this has not been observed or reported in humans.


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OfflineOakbear
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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: ThePredator]
    #4587263 - 08/27/05 02:01 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ThePredator said:
Nothing can cause schizofrenia, its a genetical disease. In rats though they have found that it gives a schizofreniform but this has not been observed or reported in humans.




And what gene would that be? :wink:
Yeah of course there are likely to be strong biological factors though, and genetics i'm sure play their part.

In certain people cannabis can be a major factor in onset and outcome of schizophrenia. The main arguement goes that they may have got it anyway and cannabis just aggravates it. Obviously though there is no way of prooving this! Maybe without cannabis use it would never have manifested, who knows?

Now don't get me wrong cannabis is a great herb, a boon to this world, but watch what it does to some people with an already established psychotic disorder. It is rarely pretty.

You can also get a drug induced psychosis from serious over indulgance. This tend to be short lived (a few days), but again isn't pretty. Basically it presents as acute schizophrenia over a short period which rectifies itself quickly with absinance. I beleive this is the human variation of what Predator cites as causing schizophreniform disorder in rats. Some people seem to have high or low tolerance to this, which is one area where genetics kicks in.

Now i have some good friends that smoke tons of gear for years, with no real ill effects, and often some very positive ones. I have some friends who have smoked a ton of gear for years and have developed short term memory problems and a paranoid streak. I have some friends who can't touch the stuff because it makes them very paranoid even with light use.

I think the key facts here are;

1. Use, don't abuse substances, and cannabis is no exception.

2. There seems to be a wide variation about how cannabis use, especially heavy and/or prolonged use, effects people.

3. If you have a established psychotic disorder then i'm afraid you should avoid it like the plague. There is now clear evidence that it effect severity, durtation and outcome.


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: ThePredator]
    #4587266 - 08/27/05 02:03 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

How do you guys know that so sure?

There definitely is no good evidence for the hypothesis that marijuana can cause schizophrenia. But it is fact that there is a higher percentage of people with schizophrenia among marijuana users. Schizophrenia can be the cause of the marijuana use, but the marijuana use can also be the cause of schizophrenia. We just don't know.


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OfflineOakbear
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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: Annom]
    #4587290 - 08/27/05 02:13 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Agreed there is no good evidence that marijuana causes schizophrenia, but there is now a large and building body evidence for it's use prior to onset (especially early onset), as well as negative impact on outcome.

Marijuana use caused by schizophrenia? An interesting idea! Obviously the 'self-medicating' phenomena is well documented, but do you imply a biological link here? I just ask as the research between tobacco use and schizophrenia may point in this direction, especially in light of some dementia reseach. Did you know most people with Alzheimers spontaneously give up smoking? Also 80% of people with a diagnosis of schizophrenia are heavy smokers. There are also neurobiological links between both conditionins and nicotinic receptors.

Much of what i have said is backed up by first hand experience too. Having worked in adolescent psychiatry you can clearly see the effects of cannabis on some kids in early onset stages. Likewise in adult services, some folks go off the wall straight after a smoke. It actually took the research a while to catch up with observe experience from mental health services.

Still think it should be legal though!


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: Oakbear]
    #4587309 - 08/27/05 02:21 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

heavy marijuana use can cause panick attacks, anxiety and paranoia which can sometimes persist for long periods after cessation of usage.


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Offlineph30n1x
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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: Deviate]
    #4587349 - 08/27/05 02:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

i know this is may be impossible to determine, but ive been toking up for about a year, for the first half of the year i did it about 3 times a week and the second half once a month about. hypathetically, if i were to have schizofrania but it did not expose itself yet, as we had said earlier we dont think weed causes it, it just aggrivates it/makes it expose itself. do u think that it would be possible that the schitsofrania in me could still be inside me and not exposed even after a good year of smoking herb? lol i no its kinda confusing question, thanks much.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: ph30n1x]
    #4587404 - 08/27/05 02:58 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

i think its possible, 3 times a week isnt all that much. if you smoked 3 times a day then it would be more likely to agrivate it.


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OfflineManicDelirium
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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: Deviate]
    #4587455 - 08/27/05 03:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It's been known to increase your risk of developing schizophrenia if you have had family history of schizophrenia or have had previous forms of schizophrenia...

If you start getting paronoid everytime when you smoke...Lay off for a while and try to find the best dosage that doesn't give you these side effects...

Marijuana if used properly and the proper dosage can help with schizophrenia and paronoia...But when you use to much over a long period it can aggravate those....


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Offlineph30n1x
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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: ManicDelirium]
    #4587522 - 08/27/05 03:39 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

wen u say paranoid do u meen wile your high? like im totally relaxed and chill wen im high, but before hand sometimes im nervous about getting caught out (since i live with my parents), but thats the most nervous id ever get. but i think thats pretty normal, and no history of schitzofrania in my family.


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OfflineManicDelirium
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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: ph30n1x]
    #4587544 - 08/27/05 03:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

While high...and while not...

Paronoia's hard to recognize...If you find yourself thinking everybody is out to get you and hates you or think everybody's talking about you. Then you might have beggining stages of schizophrenia...

Being nervous is related with schizophrenia but the two are very different...


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OfflineJabbawaya

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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: ph30n1x]
    #4587551 - 08/27/05 03:50 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ph30n1x said:
ive been hearing some things about marijuana causing mental illness/problems. this kid i know said it causes schisofrania. is it true that weed causes mental illnesses of any kind? if so which illnesses? thanks




schisofrania --> schizophrenia.

Anyway, yes, marijuana has been shown to trigger mental illnesses in susceptible individuals. A recent study was conducted that demonstrates a relationship between certain genetic alleles and predisposition to marijuana-induced psychosis. I'll post the study's abstract if I can find it.

It doesn't mean that you'll go crazy if you smoke marijuana. It doesn't mean that at all. It just means that if you have latent psychological issues it may bring them to the surface sooner rather than later. It's also best never to use drugs if you have a family history of mental illness.

ph30n1x, stop worrying. I suggest you do some research on schizophrenia and mental disorders. They are far more complicated and severe than you might think. You sound very young; acute mental disorders such as schizophrenia usually manifest in early adulthood (very rarely before age 18). Seriously, man, if you were schizophrenic, you would damn well know. It would be extremely obvious to everybody around you. Stop worrying.

Quote:

Oakbear said:
Also 80% of people with a diagnosis of schizophrenia are heavy smokers. There are also neurobiological links between both conditionins and nicotinic receptors.




That's only partly true. A large portion of schizophrenics are smokers because they choose to medicate themselves with nicotine, for its calming effect. There is no link between cigarette use and onset of schizophrenia. I can cite some studies if you'd like.

Quote:

Deviate said:
i think its possible, 3 times a week isnt all that much. if you smoked 3 times a day then it would be more likely to agrivate it.




That's entirely your opinion and nothing else. Mental illnesses may occur suddenly and without warning, and not necessarily as a result of doing drugs. However, when drugs trigger mental illnesses, it can often only take one bad experience to happen. Though you're right, cumulative heavy use can be bad, but you can't put numbers on these things... saying it's "safe" so-and-so times a week is just an opinion.

Quote:

ThePredator said:
Nothing can cause schizofrenia, its a genetical disease. In rats though they have found that it gives a schizofreniform but this has not been observed or reported in humans.




That is extremely inaccurate information. See if you can cite something substantiating your claims. Schizophrenia does not exclusively manifest in individuals with a genetic predisposition. Although it is, of course, less common, otherwise healthy individuals may develop mental illnesses during their lifetime even with no apparent family history.

...

There are a number of studies that demonstrate heavy cannabis use in early adolesence as a risk factor for early onset of schizophrenia, depression, and other mental disorders. A lot of people will deny it because they don't want to believe it. Again, it doesn't mean that cannabis will make people go crazy. But it can aggravate symptoms, especially in predisposed individuals. Research in this field is limited, however many new studies are turning up new links. If you want my opinion: first, people with a family history of mental illness should not use drugs. Secondly, take everything in moderation. The herb is a beautiful thing, but not when you overuse it. Respect the herb and she will respect you.


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Edited by Jabbawaya (08/27/05 04:17 PM)


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OfflineManicDelirium
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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: Jabbawaya]
    #4587620 - 08/27/05 04:18 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

All very true Jabbawaya  :thumbup: ...

Genetics do take part in mental illness but there are many cases where this isn't the case...Such as PTSD, depression, and OCD all can cause different forms of schizophrenia to form without genetic predisposition..


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OfflineThePredator
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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: Jabbawaya]
    #4587634 - 08/27/05 04:23 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

"Genetic and environmental influences

While the reliability of the schizophrenia diagnosis introduces difficulties in measuring the relative effect of genes and environment (for example, symptoms overlap to some extent with severe bipolar disorder or major depression), there is evidence to suggest that a combination of genetic vulnerability and environmental stressors can act in combination to cause schizophrenia.

The extent to which these factors influence the likelihood of being diagnosed with schizophrenia is debated widely, and currently, controversial. Schizophrenia is likely to be a disorder of complex inheritance (analogous to diabetes or high blood pressure). Thus, it is likely that several genes interact to generate risk for schizophrenia. This, combined with disagreements over which research methods are best, or how data from genetic research should be interpreted, has led to differing estimates over genetic contribution.

Some researchers estimate schizophrenia to be highly heritable (some estimates are as high as 70%). However, genetic evidence for the role of the environment comes from the observation that identical twins do not universally develop schizophrenia. A recent review of the genetic evidence has suggested a 28% chance of one identical twin developing schizophrenia if the other already has it7 (see twin study).

However, the estimates of heritability of schizophrenia from twin studies varies a great deal, with some notable studies37 40 showing rates as low as 11.0%?13.8% among monozygotic twins, and 1.8%?4.1% among dizygotic twins.

A recent review of linkage studies, listed seven genes as likely to be involved in the inheritance of schizophrenia or the risk of developing schizophrenia26. Evidence comes from research suggesting multiple chromosomal regions are transmitted to people who are later diagnosed as having schizophrenia. Some genetic association studies have demonstrated a relationship to a gene known as COMT that is involved in encoding the dopamine catabolic enzyme catechol-O-methyl transferase27. This is particularly interesting because of the known link between dopamine function, psychosis, and schizophrenia.

There is also considerable evidence indicating that stress may trigger episodes of schizophrenia. For example, emotionally turbulent families8 and stressful life events9 have been shown to be risk factors for relapses or triggers for episodes of schizophrenia. In common with other forms of mental illness, abuse as a child and early traumatic experience have also been shown to be a risk factor for developing schizophrenia later in life46 49 50.

Other factors such as poverty and discrimination may also be involved. This may explain why minority communities have much higher rates of schizophrenia than when members of the same ethnic groups are resident in their home country.

One particularly stable and replicable finding has been the association between living in an urban environment and risk of developing schizophrenia, even after factors such as drug use, ethnic group and size of social group have been controlled for29. A recent study of 4.4 million men and women in Sweden found a 68%?77% increased risk of psychosis for people living in the most urbanized environments, a significant proportion of which is likely to be accounted for by schizophrenia30.

One curious finding is that people diagnosed with schizophrenia are more likely to have been born in winter or spring32 (at least in the northern hemisphere). However, the effect is not large and it is still not clear why this may occur."

If its non-genetical than its schizophreniform which can be induced by drug use without any genetical dispositions. Although I did neglect to say that people with mental trauma and mental distress who are likly to have a schizophreniform can be pushed to it through cannabis use, but a mentally healthy person has a very minute chance (with cannabis of course, with psycadelics there is a much greater chance)

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic3350.htm


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OfflineJabbawaya

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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: ThePredator]
    #4587650 - 08/27/05 04:27 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

My personal opinion is simply this: if you're a fucked up individual, don't do drugs. If you have a history of mental illness, don't do drugs. I mean, if you still want to, go ahead--you may end up totally fine--but the difference is that you are more likely to have problems. If you're otherwise healthy, do it if you like, just take everything in moderation.

Drugs (especially entheogens) can do wonderful things for a person and dramatically improve someone's life and perspectives, but only if you treat them with respect.


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Offlineph30n1x
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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: Jabbawaya]
    #4587707 - 08/27/05 04:44 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

im not worried about having schiztofrania but im just interested in the topic of weed actually causing a mental illness. from what ive read in ur post, weed doesnt cause schitzfrania, if someone already has it (and it just hasnt exposed itself yet) weed can trigger its exposure. but if someone doesnt already have it, weed cannot create it inside that person? is this correct?


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OfflineManicDelirium
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Re: marijuana mental illness??? [Re: ph30n1x]
    #4587734 - 08/27/05 04:54 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

True... weed doesn't create schizophrenia...It just opens it up in schizophrenia's early stages to prolong and create a much more progressed form of schizophrenia...

Just remember to control your own mind...Meditation helps with this...Don't let your mind take control of yourself to the point where there's no way to fight it off...


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"Buy the ticket, take the ride" --long live the great Gonzo


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