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OfflineTrainwreck
No. Really.

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 3,563
Loc: Southern California
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Schizophrenia Backround
    #3568622 - 01/01/05 07:12 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Ok so here's the deal...

I have a half-brother, we have different fathers but the same mother. Now hes quite older then me (about 8 years) so he wasn't living at home through most of my teen years and until recently didn't know that I was into psychedelics. We still visit each other alot and our relationship is pretty good. I've told him just about everything I know about mushrooms and their effects. Now hes interested in trying them with me. I thought that was a great idea and we're trying to set up a good time and place to do it. Mentally, hes a strong guy and doesn't have any psychological problems. Now here's the thing. His father is schizophrenic. He wasn't like that his entire life, but became schizophrenic while he was married to our mother. Our mom divorced him (for obvious reasons) and went on to marry my father. Last we heard my brothers dad was in a mental institution somewhere in Oregon.

So, my brother having schizophrenia in his side of the family, he would have those same genes in him right? He doesn't have any problems as of right now, but I've heard of mushrooms bringing psychological problems to surface, or kind of "awakening" certain things that were dormant before. Would this back round play a factor in his trip? Would he come out of it possibly schizophrenic? Or maybe with some other psychological problem? Any feed back from those who know more about this then me please help. I'm afraid that 1 little trip that was supposed to be enjoyable and enlightening could turn into a complete disaster.


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Offlinesideshowbob
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Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 36
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: Schizophrenia Backround [Re: Trainwreck]
    #3568694 - 01/01/05 07:43 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

he may or may not have these so-called sz 'genes' of which you speak. but even if he did, there would still be no way to know if tripping would effect him negatively or positively. I knew this girl who wanted to trip, and i could tell that she might have encountered some problems. she wanted to go from getting totally fucked up off 1 j to tripping. so i had her gradually work her way up. but anything can fuck up someone with a predisposition to sz, the only way not to would be to stay in your house your whole life and avoid all situations which could be stressfull. maybe somewhere in the middle would be best for him, and i don't think tripping is in the middle.


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Schizophrenia Backround [Re: sideshowbob]
    #3568727 - 01/01/05 08:00 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, there really is no way to know for certain.

My advice would be to either not do it entirely, or start off at a low dose.

From a genetic perspective, since he developed it later in life, it's probable that it was a dormant gene...without knowing family history it's impossible to gauge whether it's dominant or recessive. So that means that it could be a similar situation with your half brother (where some type of event or stress...ie some psychedelic, could trigger it), or, if it is a recessive gene, then it's unlikely he would experience any schizo.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflinekronnyQ
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Registered: 07/23/04
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Re: Schizophrenia Backround [Re: dblaney]
    #3569787 - 01/02/05 03:06 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

This dood I used to know was already kinda on his rocker (but not to my knowledge) and I gave him some mush.

I guess the next day he ditched his car while driving thru the national forest and started running barefoot thru the woods, thinking the government was hunting him down.

It is possible to see signs schizophrenia....I was told the guy that went nuts was always talking about government consipiracies like waaaay to much, to the point where it gets annoying.

Another person i have known to go schizophrenic always talked about crazy shit and annoyed the hell out of people. Just look for it@!

If your friend has any sort of anxiety or depression I definitely wouldn't recommend talking any at all.


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Invisiblehellbender

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 64
Re: Schizophrenia Backround [Re: sideshowbob]
    #3569928 - 01/02/05 03:52 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

"Schizophrenia Gene"?

Um... no.


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OfflinekronnyQ
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Re: Schizophrenia Backround [Re: hellbender]
    #3570038 - 01/02/05 04:38 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)



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Offlinestefan
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Registered: 04/11/01
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Re: Schizophrenia Backround [Re: Trainwreck]
    #3570198 - 01/02/05 07:37 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

if shizophrenia is more common on his side of the family than it would be a bad idea to give him psychedelics. If his father had schizophrenia the chance that he might develop it also in some stage of his life is there (small chance but stil...) so I don't think it's a good idea for him to try psychedelics.


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OfflineBal0n
Shroomer

Registered: 09/23/04
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Loc: the Netherlands
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Re: Schizophrenia Backround [Re: stefan]
    #3570273 - 01/02/05 08:38 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

In my opinion it's just plain stupid to give someone psychedelics with schizophrenic relatives..


--------------------
"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the 'Universe' - a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something seperated from the rest - a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
- Albert Einstein


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OfflineHawkeye2
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Registered: 04/05/04
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Re: Schizophrenia Backround [Re: Bal0n]
    #3572597 - 01/02/05 08:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I frankly don't see the big deal. The only way a trip would result in schizophrenia would be if he ate a shitload before he was ready, had a terrible trip, and uncovered some disturbing shit that uncovered a pre-existing but dormant mental disorder. If that *** happens, and he does get schizophrenia, it probably would have come out eventu***y.

You take a risk every time you dose shrooms, but there are ways to tip the odds in your favor.


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OfflineTrainwreck
No. Really.

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 3,563
Loc: Southern California
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Schizophrenia Backround [Re: Bal0n]
    #3572602 - 01/02/05 08:46 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for the feed back guys. The negative remarks were totally uncalled for though. I was asking becuase I didnt really know much about it. Let me write my letter of apology for thinking there was a sz gene. Oh but what da ya know! There is such a gene.

Thanks for everyone that actually had something logical to say. I dont think I'll be letting my bro try anything psychedelic.


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OfflineHawkeye2
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Re: Schizophrenia Backround [Re: Hawkeye2]
    #3572605 - 01/02/05 08:46 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Why is *** a l l censored?


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Invisiblehellbender

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 64
Re: Schizophrenia Backround [Re: Trainwreck]
    #3573432 - 01/03/05 12:29 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Well, first I'm sorry if I came across the wrong way. My frustration was not with you, but with the general misinformation and misunderstanding surrounding the subject. I applaud you for having the sense to realize dosing your brother might be a very bad idea. Then again it might not be, but is that a chance you are willing to take? I certainly wouldn't want that responsibility.

As for the inherited sz, that's another story altogether. This has been a hotly debated topic for many years. In the the BBC article posted above, you see the headline in which there's no ambiguity. "First sz gene identified". But if you read the article through, you may get the feeling it's not quite so cut and dry.

Quote:

But Professor Lesch said it was important to note that they were talking about the gene that could be responsible for just one specific type of schizophrenia and that there was much more work to be done.




Quote:

These discoveries, if proven, will probably not have a noticeable effect on people's quality of life for many years."




Quote:

Majorie Wallace, chief executive of mental health charity Sane, which founded the Prince of Wales' International Research Centre in Oxford to carry out studies of schizophrenia, said that because the German study traced only one family that the findings might be difficult to replicate.




Here's a newer article that paints a somewhat different picture:

Another blank on schizophrenia gene
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/health/HealthRepublish_541281.htm

Quote:

It can't be explained by either a single altered gene or a single environmental cause. There are clearly genetic components, but they are likely to be varied and to interact in many ways with non-genetic factors.




Quote:

We need to stop hoping to luck upon a single genetic magic bullet and start thinking about what makes people susceptible."




Quote:

One limitation had been that diagnosing schizophrenia is based on self-assessed symptoms. There's no lab test for hallucinations, you just rely on the patient saying they are having them.




And therein lies one of the biggest problems, the diagnosis. One doctor might diagnose a patient as schizophrenic, another might say schizo effective and yet another might conclude some combination of illnesses and not include sz at all. I've seen it happen more than once, so I tend to be skeptical. Is it possible that some forms of "mental illness" may be passed on genetically? Yes. Is there an inherited gene that's been proven to "cause" a specific condition which we all agree is called "schizophrenia"? Not that I'm aware of.

But I don't want to hijack the thread for that issue. The main thing is whether it's a good idea to give psychedelics to anyone who may have a family history of any type of "mental illness". I don't feel qualified to answer that, so I'd have err on the side of caution and say no.


Edited by hellbender (01/03/05 01:56 AM)


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OfflineTrainwreck
No. Really.

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 3,563
Loc: Southern California
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Schizophrenia Backround [Re: hellbender]
    #3573742 - 01/03/05 01:56 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Its cool hellbender, I was actually pretty pissed off at something totally different when I went to check the forums and just saw your post as something sarcastic and unnecessary. I see what you meant by it though and I'm glad you pointed out what you did about the article and the illness. I still dont want to chance anything so I'm gonna tell him its not a good idea. Definitely not a risk worth taking.


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