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ItsTime
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Registered: 12/01/13
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Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia
#19213938 - 12/01/13 05:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey guys, been lurking a few months and registered up for an important question. I know this has been talked about a bit before (I read some threads where it was talked about) but I am still unclear.
I have a great uncle on my dads side, and my mom and her mom all have schizophrenia. 3 relatives altogether.
So I am pretty predisposed, despite being in my mid 20s without ever having any symptoms.
I would like to try shrooms (and later DMT) for spiritual reasons, but I have a little paranoia that it is going to trigger some dormant gene and make me permanently schizophrenic.
I understand that with the way genetics work, I may not even carry the schizophrenic gene at all, but who knows.
Do you think its safe, especially if I haven't had any symptoms? Also my buddy wants to split an eighth, is that enough? Perfect amount?
Thanks!
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RiparianZoneJunky
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: ItsTime]
#19214009 - 12/01/13 06:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's definitely a risk, as psychedelic use can be the epigenetic trigger that sets off latent schizophrenia, so it's up to you to weigh the pros and cons. I would say if your mother plus your grandmother plus another member on your father's side all have it, your risk is pretty great. I couldn't in good conscience recommend heavy use of psychedelics in your case. You might be able to get by with a few trips, but you would be posing some risk to your sanity.
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ItsTime
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: RiparianZoneJunky]
#19214040 - 12/01/13 06:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RiparianZoneJunky said: It's definitely a risk, as psychedelic use can be the epigenetic trigger that sets off latent schizophrenia, so it's up to you to weigh the pros and cons. I would say if your mother plus your grandmother plus another member on your father's side all have it, your risk is pretty great. I couldn't in good conscience recommend heavy use of psychedelics in your case. You might be able to get by with a few trips, but you would be posing some risk to your sanity.

That has kinda been my viewpoint based on my research too . But just to add a little more details, I have smoked weed for almost 10 years (they say that can trigger schizophrenia too from what I have read) and I also survived military bootcamp and finished my service (which was insanely stressful, stress being another trigger) all with no symptoms.
I dunno...it all seems like a tough call and I appreciate the insight
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travelleler
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: RiparianZoneJunky] 1
#19214045 - 12/01/13 06:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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ever consider mystic studies or meditation instead?? Conscious study of the mysteries can take you to a similar place-- I'd say start by reading up on "Zhine" or "Reiki" consider your purpose on this journey before you take the step to consume the mushroom. There's plenty spiritual energy available to you naturally...
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4HO-DMT


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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: ItsTime]
#19214065 - 12/01/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Have you smoked cannabis before? If so, did this bring schizophrenic effects? My only advice is: there's no going back once you take the plunge. So, if this brings on schizophrenic tendencies you may be fucked for a long time. Be safe whatever you decide to do. 
Edit: never mind the first question.
Edited by 4HO-DMT (12/01/13 06:20 PM)
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ItsTime
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: travelleler]
#19214073 - 12/01/13 06:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
travelleler said: ever consider mystic studies or meditation instead?? Conscious study of the mysteries can take you to a similar place-- I'd say start by reading up on "Zhine" or "Reiki" consider your purpose on this journey before you take the step to consume the mushroom. There's plenty spiritual energy available to you naturally...
I have done a little meditation but its hard for me because I have a mind that always races. And yeah I have had some interesting experiences with lucid dreaming and astral projection (I combined the two because I experienced both while in a dream state). I am a bit familiar with Reiki...never heard of Zhine...will look into that...I just feel like this is the next step on my journey and I'd gain some insight from it all.
I really am trying to look for a reason to justify it despite my risk.
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ItsTime
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: 4HO-DMT]
#19214086 - 12/01/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
physicist said: Have you smoked cannabis before? If so, did this bring schizophrenic effects? My only advice is: there's no going back once you take the plunge. So, if this brings on schizophrenic tendencies you may be fucked for a long time. Be safe whatever you decide to do. 
Thank you! And yes I have smoked for almost 10 years.
I am passed the threshold for the onset of schizophrenia for most people (though it has been known to come in later years in some) doesn't that account for anything?
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4HO-DMT


Registered: 01/11/11
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: ItsTime]
#19214114 - 12/01/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't know enough about it to answer your question. It's kind of funny because your OP question is in the category of questions that I would turn to psychedelics with.
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travelleler
a horse-fart in a hurricane



Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 3,955
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: ItsTime] 1
#19214125 - 12/01/13 06:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
.I just feel like this is the next step on my journey and I'd gain some insight from it all.
again, defining purpose and understanding the limitations and your own expectations are important. Mushrooms can be very---- uhm---- I lack the words
sometimes they take us so far so fast that it is difficult to integrate the experience.
--------------------

"Whales have deep thoughts"
Dreams are the fuel of the soul
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DurgaDurg
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: travelleler]
#19214246 - 12/01/13 07:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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My uncle is schizophrenic, all of the males in my family who share this uncle by blood, including myself, have tried shrooms multiple times. We are all ok so far.
-------------------- When you see him look him in the eye, look him in the eye and he won’t dare to follow If you need to, hook him with your right, hook him with your right till he wiggles and wallows He sleeps atop a bag of raven’s legs, curled up rats napping by his head Takes his eye out with a ball point pen And makes nunchaku with his torn off legs You wake up with a hatchet over your head You wake up with a hatchet over your head
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RiparianZoneJunky
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: DurgaDurg]
#19214498 - 12/01/13 08:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you've made it through 10 years of smoking weed plus boot camp, meditate regularly, are very self-aware and are in your 30's or older, you could probably justify trying a low dose of mushrooms, recognizing that something could still go wrong. I would keep some risperdol or other anti-psychotic around in case you started to notice you were thinking funny and make dead sure your set and setting were stress free and productive for a spriritual/shamanistic ritual. If you do decide to trip start small and set aside a full 3 days to prepare with meditation, fasting, then resting and recovery afterward to integrate the experience. If you act responsibly you could benefit from the experience, if you fuck around and go balls deep in a shitty set and setting you could fuck yourself for life. Weigh the pros and cons and make an informed decision, it sounds like you want to do them and I can't say I blame you, psilocybin is responsibly for some of the most spiritual and profound experiences of my life. Good luck and safe travels.
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Hygrocybe
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: travelleler]
#19214527 - 12/01/13 08:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Were the lucid dreams and astral projection spontaneous, were you smoking at the time?
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ItsTime
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: Hygrocybe]
#19214625 - 12/01/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RiparianZoneJunky said: If you've made it through 10 years of smoking weed plus boot camp, meditate regularly, are very self-aware and are in your 30's or older, you could probably justify trying a low dose of mushrooms, recognizing that something could still go wrong. I would keep some risperdol or other anti-psychotic around in case you started to notice you were thinking funny and make dead sure your set and setting were stress free and productive for a spriritual/shamanistic ritual. If you do decide to trip start small and set aside a full 3 days to prepare with meditation, fasting, then resting and recovery afterward to integrate the experience. If you act responsibly you could benefit from the experience, if you fuck around and go balls deep in a shitty set and setting you could fuck yourself for life. Weigh the pros and cons and make an informed decision, it sounds like you want to do them and I can't say I blame you, psilocybin is responsibly for some of the most spiritual and profound experiences of my life. Good luck and safe travels. 
Yeah all that is the case for me except I am in my mid 20s, but that is still passed the average onset. That is some good realistic advice and it is all noted and appreciated. I have never actually tried fasting but I have researched it a bit and am interested, I am going to look into it more. And of course get back into meditating.
Quote:
Hygrocybe said: Were the lucid dreams and astral projection spontaneous, were you smoking at the time?
They were all spontaneous, for some reason pot seems to lessen the frequency of my lucid dreams, but that wont and hasn't stopped me from blazing!
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HappyHooligan
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: Hygrocybe]
#19214658 - 12/01/13 08:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I am schizophrenic and my symptoms went away for a long time & then I tried weed a few years back, and my symptoms are basically back now!! I smoke a lot now & sometimes I just want the high to be over, and other times I'm at an unexplainable peace with myself. My boyfriend tried mushrooms but I doubt I'd do it because of my paranoid tendencies, I just know I'll have a bad trip....
If you haven't already, smoke some weed for a while first, and if you have a bad feeling all the time while you're high, you surely shouldn't trip.
-------------------- Do you trust the government? You may be suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.
 
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ItsTime
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: HappyHooligan]
#19214731 - 12/01/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
HappyHooligan said: I am schizophrenic and my symptoms went away for a long time & then I tried weed a few years back, and my symptoms are basically back now!! I smoke a lot now & sometimes I just want the high to be over, and other times I'm at an unexplainable peace with myself. My boyfriend tried mushrooms but I doubt I'd do it because of my paranoid tendencies, I just know I'll have a bad trip....
If you haven't already, smoke some weed for a while first, and if you have a bad feeling all the time while you're high, you surely shouldn't trip.
Do you think weed brought it back? I have a suspicion that weed may have given me my mild anxiety but I cant say for sure. Nearly all the time when I am high I am just chill and relaxed.
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HappyHooligan
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: ItsTime]
#19214876 - 12/01/13 09:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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My boyfriend is always chill, I am only chill sometimes. He says I say a lot of stuff that he used to think when he was tripping off shrooms. but yeah I think weed brought it back. I'm a heavy smoker though, if that matters.
-------------------- Do you trust the government? You may be suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.
 
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Smeagol
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: HappyHooligan]
#19216359 - 12/02/13 08:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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My step dad is a paranoid schizophrenic and he handles psychedelics like most people handle weed. His onset was mid 20's. To quote him during a trip we took "I know everything is supposed to be all fucked up and I just enjoy the ride" He dosed while already having hallucinations when he was younger and ended up basically babysitting everyone else. But he rarely lets out what he sees. If you know him you can watch his eyes and his right hand. Otherwise it just seems like he is ignoring you or day dreaming. You have to do a very honest risk/benefit analysis. It can be a dark fucking road. Booze is the worst thing he ever indulges in. Herding your wife and children into the bedroom at 3am running around with a gun talking to the dog. It would also be a mess if you have a paranoid delusion during the trip.
-------------------- The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but it is not paved with clarity.” -Terence "If you're not peaking what the fuck are you doing?" Dude on facebook
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HappyHooligan
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: Smeagol]
#19217271 - 12/02/13 01:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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To be honest. When people talk about their trips... it just sounds like one of my episodes. Only time getting high gets bad is when fear sets in. Other than that, visuals and hearing stuff is pretty normal for me. I may be wrong, but I doubt trying a low dose of mushrooms will just change your whole conscious immediately, ya know? I'd say it's something that happens from either a high dose, or many trips.
-------------------- Do you trust the government? You may be suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.
 
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ItsTime
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: HappyHooligan]
#19218472 - 12/02/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
HappyHooligan said: To be honest. When people talk about their trips... it just sounds like one of my episodes. Only time getting high gets bad is when fear sets in. Other than that, visuals and hearing stuff is pretty normal for me. I may be wrong, but I doubt trying a low dose of mushrooms will just change your whole conscious immediately, ya know? I'd say it's something that happens from either a high dose, or many trips.
I guess the idea is the experience can be mentally stressful to the mind and trigger some dormant gene that would cause a predisposed person, someone with the schizophrenic gene in their genetics, to become active.
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Hygrocybe
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: ItsTime]
#19219562 - 12/02/13 09:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Do you often get hypnagogia, or a mix of dreaming and wakefulness, when falling asleep or waking up? THC may interfere with REM sleep, which could be why your dreams are less vivid when smoking. I'd be more concerned with regular use of weed than a trip.
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VE3HPC
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: Hygrocybe]
#19229173 - 12/04/13 10:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey man, I don't know many people personally who are schizophrenic or who have a predisposition to it so this may be a little off topic but I do know many people who smoke pot, have tripped on shrooms, acid, LSA, DXM, party on extacy, and to the lesser degree certain rx type drugs. Myself, my wife, family members on all sides, very close friends, each to their own level of sanity (including myself) it seems most people I hang out with or even know for that matter, view doing certain substances with a very similar set of personal conditions and values before getting, quote "phucked up". Before the event of such a phuck, we ALWAYS make sure we have each other's backs by knowing that if we end up passing out, going crazy, having a bad fucking trip, etc, we started in a very familiar place and we know that it is as safe of an environment as possible for us to be completely inebriated. Now, in my own personal experience with psychedelics amongst my circle of friends and family, if it's mushrooms your concerned about doing, honestly smoking a blunt of good chronic does way more to put me in a crazy head funk than say 3 to 4 grams of mushrooms would to me or any of my friends. I seem to be able to control the trip on mushrooms better than with any other substance! It's why it is my favorite substance! It's just nothing you can imagine, you can only get there by getting there. Just my 2 cents! Closing point, just make sure you are around people and places you trust before trying anything new. It makes all the difference in the world!
-------------------- -"It's all been done before. You're just another brain going through another depression. Accept it, treat it, move on."
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OnePerEyeM8
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: VE3HPC]
#19230003 - 12/05/13 04:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just proceed as carefully as you can. No one knows your mind anywhere near as well as you do. If it were me, I would probably start with a low dose, a gram or 1.5 at most, then see how it went and pay attention to my mental state as best I could for a week or two after.
Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen any actual support for the claim that psychedelics can trigger underlying schizophrenia. Can anyone link any legit articles or anything?
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RiparianZoneJunky
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: OnePerEyeM8]
#19230371 - 12/05/13 08:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
OnePerEyeM8 said: Just proceed as carefully as you can. No one knows your mind anywhere near as well as you do. If it were me, I would probably start with a low dose, a gram or 1.5 at most, then see how it went and pay attention to my mental state as best I could for a week or two after.
Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen any actual support for the claim that psychedelics can trigger underlying schizophrenia. Can anyone link any legit articles or anything?
I don't think there's any study and it would probably be hard to prove that those who took drugs then had a first break wouldn't have eventually had an episode without the drugs. That said, my best friends sister in high school did a bunch of acid and got into meth and she developed severe schizophrenia and is now living on the street whacked out of her mind. Could she have been a functional human being if she hadn't gotten into drugs so young? Maybe, maybe not. It's worth being careful when your mental health is at stake.
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Vaipen
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: HappyHooligan]
#19230449 - 12/05/13 09:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
HappyHooligan said: My boyfriend is always chill, I am only chill sometimes. He says I say a lot of stuff that he used to think when he was tripping off shrooms. but yeah I think weed brought it back. I'm a heavy smoker though, if that matters.
Can you give examples of what you are saying?
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HappyHooligan
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Re: Shrooms and genetic predisposition to schizophrenia [Re: Vaipen]
#19230771 - 12/05/13 11:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Vaipen said:
Quote:
HappyHooligan said: My boyfriend is always chill, I am only chill sometimes. He says I say a lot of stuff that he used to think when he was tripping off shrooms. but yeah I think weed brought it back. I'm a heavy smoker though, if that matters.
Can you give examples of what you are saying?
Visuals like I everything was breathing, and nothing was completely still, it was like I could see the very slow movements of the atoms in every object.
I often become aware of my bodily actions. I could feel all my blood circulating with every heartbeat, feel my hair & nails growing, feel electrical currents slowed down in my brain... and that's when I always feel like time itself slows down, or maybe I'm so fast, nothing can catch me. I start to get really arrogant, like I'm the ONLY one who is not bound by the illusion of time. I felt like I could be in that moment forever if I wanted to. One time I was strongly convinced that I had already died, and this was all some type of purgatory. Like I can TRY to think about that now, but when I was high, there was no arguing with me. I KNEW it was real. I could really hear members of my church singing in the background of my life... it was like I knew my body was somewhere in a coffin, and this life was the place for my soul after leaving my body. I tried not to panic at that time, because then I became really upset that I was actually dead.
-------------------- Do you trust the government? You may be suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.
 
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