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Invisiblemoog
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Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
denying your humanity
    #4547412 - 08/17/05 06:24 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I have always been a big fan of DXM, and over the years have used it a lot (up until I had a bad trip in January... haven't touched it since). It was always my favorite drug, and here's why. For the entire duration of the trip, your interest in sex, food, and sleep tends to be completely non-existent. For me, that was bliss. It gave me a few hours to dedicate myself to non-physical spiritual endeavors, without my body's biological drives getting in the way. The interesting thing is that this effect whereby you forget about the body's needs comes so completely natural to you while under the influence that you don't notice it at all until you're faced with something that would normally spur the instinctual needs. Under a moderate dose, you don't even feel the need to expel bodily waste (DXM is infamous for causing urinary retention, which can be dangerous).

Some people think denying your biological drives is some sort of sin, and that you should embrace them. However, I don't think this is the best perspective. After all, you're a slave to your body's needs. Is it healthy for a slave to embrace and love it's master? I say no, although it's a matter of opinion of course. I suppose embracing it makes it easier for the slave (and easier for the master). I think a better perspective is to think about them from outside the human experience, to think of them from an objective third-party view of an entity studying the human species. In this way you can differentiate mind from body, and determine what your mind's needs are, as opposed to what your body's neeeds are.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: denying your humanity [Re: moog]
    #4547469 - 08/17/05 06:38 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

If you have addictive behavior around your biological drives, then it's a problem. Otherwise those needs are easily filled with time for everything else.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredtailedhawk
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Re: denying your humanity [Re: Icelander]
    #4547641 - 08/17/05 07:15 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

As is normal in the western society you may be spending too much time in your head. Try to spend some time each day focused on your feelings and body sensations. Do something enjoyable with your body like swimming, sex, etc. Think of it as a sort of meditation. This way you will get a healthy perspective, become more whole as a human being and learn that we are much more than just our brains.


--------------------

"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: denying your humanity [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #4547852 - 08/17/05 07:58 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

"you may be spending too much time in your head"

Yeah, that's the point: to focus on your consciousness rather than your body. However I didn't know this was a trend in the West. Seems the opposite to me.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: denying your humanity [Re: moog]
    #4548191 - 08/17/05 09:07 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

moog said:
I have always been a big fan of DXM, and over the years have used it a lot (up until I had a bad trip in January... haven't touched it since). It was always my favorite drug, and here's why. For the entire duration of the trip, your interest in sex, food, and sleep tends to be completely non-existent. For me, that was bliss. It gave me a few hours to dedicate myself to non-physical spiritual endeavors, without my body's biological drives getting in the way. The interesting thing is that this effect whereby you forget about the body's needs comes so completely natural to you while under the influence that you don't notice it at all until you're faced with something that would normally spur the instinctual needs. Under a moderate dose, you don't even feel the need to expel bodily waste (DXM is infamous for causing urinary retention, which can be dangerous).

Some people think denying your biological drives is some sort of sin, and that you should embrace them. However, I don't think this is the best perspective. After all, you're a slave to your body's needs. Is it healthy for a slave to embrace and love it's master? I say no, although it's a matter of opinion of course. I suppose embracing it makes it easier for the slave (and easier for the master). I think a better perspective is to think about them from outside the human experience, to think of them from an objective third-party view of an entity studying the human species. In this way you can differentiate mind from body, and determine what your mind's needs are, as opposed to what your body's neeeds are.





:lol: food and sex don't make us humans.

What does define any thing? The thing that defines it are things that make it different from the rest of the things.

All animals have sex and eat, there is nothing special, nothing human about that.

What does make a bird a bird? What does define its birdity?
feathers,wings and flight, because no onther creatures has them.
eating and sex do not define a bird, pigs have them too, and lions..

so what does make you human? sexual drive and eating make you a living being, not human, loving your mother and sucking milk makes you a mammal, not human.
So what does make you human? What do humans have that others don't have?
The ability to deny your urges at will, the ability to progress, the ability to study, your consciousness of self and the world around you, space walk, searching, investigating, knowing, believing etc. etc. Your mind in general.

You might say that not eating when you feel hungry and not having sex when you want to is what makes you human, because every other living organism does not have that ability, only humans.

A animal might not eat if there is danger, but humans can decide not to eat even thought everything is Ok, and you just decide for the heck of it.

Animals can't do anything for the heck of it


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: denying your humanity [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4548313 - 08/17/05 09:27 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

"You might say that not eating when you feel hungry and not having sex when you want to is what makes you human, because every other living organism does not have that ability, only humans."

This is true. :wink:

Looks like you caught me on a technicality. Should've titled the post 'denying your animality' then.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: denying your humanity [Re: moog]
    #4548327 - 08/17/05 09:30 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

moog said:
After all, you're a slave to your body's needs. Is it healthy for a slave to embrace and love it's master?



I believe most doctors would say that it is, in fact, quite unhealthy to ignore your body's needs.


--------------------


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: denying your humanity [Re: moog]
    #4548354 - 08/17/05 09:36 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

mammalty...

most of the behaviour that causes controversy in our society is mammal behaviour: specific way of matting, specific familly bonds and urges, specific way of lusting for power, territory, etc.
It's mostly gorilla behaviour, allthought gorillas and true to themselfs, fair and honest at all times.

People make the worst of it by mixing different worlds in a very unhealthy way. They mix human ability to lie, cheat and "think" with some of the most destructive natural instincts like violence.
We are the only ones that can actually USE violence instead of just play it out if our bodies force us to.  :smirk:


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: denying your humanity [Re: Silversoul]
    #4548362 - 08/17/05 09:38 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

moog said:
After all, you're a slave to your body's needs. Is it healthy for a slave to embrace and love it's master?



I believe most doctors would say that it is, in fact, quite unhealthy to ignore your body's needs.




growing pains


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineBoneMan
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Re: denying your humanity [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4549482 - 08/18/05 12:54 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

personally I find my body's needs to be annoying and distracting.

certain needs, that is.

food is easy to get a hold of and its very satisfying to eat a nice big meal when im hungry.

sleep is a problem sometimes, such as when i have to get up early for work or school. but still its no challenge to get enough of it.

but i cant stand the need for sex. people might say its not truly a need because you won't die from lack of sex. all i know is it sucks big hairy kong balls to crave sex (or at least intimacy and physical affection) and have no one to get some from.

i guess its just my mind's need, but my body is a necessary part of fulfilling it. repressing the need for sex can't be healthy, but im in the midst of a serious dry spell and theres not a woman in sight.

i have become used to having no sex whatsoever, but it never gets any easier to ignore the urge.

i blame women for being so damn sexy


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OfflineMyOwnReality
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Re: denying your humanity [Re: BoneMan]
    #4549615 - 08/18/05 01:32 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Why are you so focused on ignoring your bodies needs through taking drugs? There is no enlightenment in ignoring something you don't feel. Further more, I've found that on DXM I take massive shits! I can eat if I want to or not eat if I want to, I've had sex on it, but its wierd cause there is less intemacy, and less pleasurable sensations. Personally I think fasting from sex and eating is a great way for spiritual enlightenment, but how are you gonna achieve that if you don't go through the hunger pangs?

Also:
Moog said:
""you may be spending too much time in your head"

Yeah, that's the point: to focus on your consciousness rather than your body. However I didn't know this was a trend in the West. Seems the opposite to me."

You are misunderstanding eastern philosophy if you think it is about thinking. It is infact not about thinking, but wrather about feeling, experiencing, and letting your mind come to a rest. You miss out on experience when you let the mental chatter of thoughs fill your existance. One buddhist practice which is popular is called "mindfulness" which means to be aware. Aware of what is going on around you, in you, etc. etc. You clear your mind to let awareness creep in. How are you going to realize the beauty of a bird song, or hear the voices of the wind if you're too busy thing about stuff.


--------------------
www.youtube.com/morstories


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OfflineMyOwnReality
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Re: denying your humanity [Re: MyOwnReality]
    #4549670 - 08/18/05 01:47 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

This second post is on DXM itself.

I was a big fan of DXM for a long time, its availability and engrossing experience were major factors in my enjoyment of the drug. I've had all sorts of experience in all plates, and seemingly suffer no illeffects of the drug. How ever, there is a very eerie and menacing vibe with DXM, I didn't notice it at first, but as I continued taking it and my experience with other drugs such as mushrooms increased I realized that there was definitely something wrong in the picture.

My first inkling of this came one evening while tripping on mushrooms for the first time. I was having an experience in which I was communicating with what many people call the logos. Simply stated it was a group of masculine voices, that's right verbal voices that I had a discussion with about my life and what needed to be done. The last thing these voices said to me before leaving, was "Be careful with dxm, it lies to you."

That got me way weirded out, and since at the time I had a large assortment of ethnobotanicals on hand I shyed away from the elusive syrup. I'm not sure exactly what mushrooms meant, but I can say a few other things that I have discovered since. DXM is very prone to giving one profound experiences, after repeated high dose experiences I seemed to be developing beliefs about myself which could be considered ego mania. In reading literature online I've become aware that this is a common occurrence among regular users of dissociatives. I'm not sure what to think of it, because on the one hand when I was taking cough syrup once or twice a month I was leading one of the most self assured and productive lives, on the other hand, where was I going with it? Since I've experience many other drugs, but I've been fairly careful about DXM and have only used it on a few occasions. Last May I claimed I was on my last DXM trip, and so far that has been true, I'm not sure what lies ahead but be very weary about this drug.
-MOR
P.S. I'm not completely convinced that the mushrooms weren't lying to me, DXM never seemed to have much of a personality, but mushrooms do. And the mushrooms seem like they're hiding something always. It could very well be the mushrooms who were doing the lying. In either case only time will tell.


--------------------
www.youtube.com/morstories


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OfflineLittleBen
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Re: denying your humanity [Re: BoneMan]
    #4549673 - 08/18/05 01:48 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Everything that makes you you is important. Im glad sexy women influence me the way they do.


--------------------
Gaia, as you awaken, I heal myself. As I awaken, you are healed.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: denying your humanity [Re: moog]
    #4549803 - 08/18/05 02:22 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

" Some people think denying your biological drives is some sort of sin, and that you should embrace them. However, I don't think this is the best perspective. After all, you're a slave to your body's needs."

yes your body has needs, but it doesn't really make you a slave.  how you go about fulfilling your body's needs I think determines if you are a slave or not.

as someone said before (i think it was Doctor J), being able to have "conscious will," to think above yourself and your needs is an aspect of humanity. 

thinking about your mind's needs is almost redundant in my view. what your mind needs is thinking, to be active, to always be "in use"  we can label it as ego or whatever, but in the end, what doe sthe mind need?

good subject moog!  :thumbup: I've never done DXM but from what I read from your post it sounds a lot like nitrous hehehehe

a little off topic, do you think that you are your mind, body, both, neither?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: denying your humanity [Re: MyOwnReality]
    #4550293 - 08/18/05 04:25 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

"Why are you so focused on ignoring your bodies needs through taking drugs? There is no enlightenment in ignoring something you don't feel."

Well here's the conundrum. I'm not intentionally ignoring my body, except by intending to take a drug that will produce those results. And since the feelings aren't there once I'm under the influence, I can't ignore them because they're not there to ignore.

I've never intentionally ignored my biological drives while sober... i've never fasted before in my life and can't go more than a couple days without relieving some sexual tension. It's just that, i'm amazed that there's this drug that could make a person completely forget -- not intentionally -- but just completely not care about eating or sex. It seems the very antithesis of survival. In terms of body/mind it puts the very word "dissociative" in perspective. You really are dissociated from your body. It was my DXM experiences that first caused me to believe that consciousness is separate from the body. I was unable to reconcile how consciousness could be a product of the body when they could be so disconnected.

"You are misunderstanding eastern philosophy..."

Just to be clear, i wasn't referring to eastern philosophy or any philosophy. However i've found that "living in the mind" most closely resembles Fourth Way school philosophy, where you constantly observe yourself from a detached perspective in order to determine which aspects of your behavior are mechanical responses and which are spontaneous.

"How ever, there is a very eerie and menacing vibe with DXM, I didn't notice it at first, but as I continued taking it and my experience with other drugs such as mushrooms increased I realized that there was definitely something wrong in the picture."

Concerning DXM... i've noticed this too. If i could describe it with one word i would say that DXM makes you feel isolated. It makes you feel detached from what's going on around you, so you care a lot less about everything. This creates a unique kind of euphoria but also allows an atmosphere where you replace the consensus meanings behind things with your own meanings, causing delusions and egomania.

kaiowas:
"as someone said before (i think it was Doctor J), being able to have "conscious will," to think above yourself and your needs is an aspect of humanity."

Well, see, like i said above i've never intentionally chosen to ignore my biological drives while sober. What i liked about DXM is that it *forced* me to forget about them, so i was simply subject to the effects of the drug and it wasn't of my own will (even though it was my will to use it with this intention in the first place). A temporary new nature resulted from the drug, where i didn't have these drives. I didn't fight against this new nature and force myself to eat or have sex or whatever. I think that's the best way to explain it. While on DXM i didn't have the needs that i had while sober, so it wasn't that i was ignoring my bodily needs but rather that the needs didn't exist anymore. So it would've been unnatural to force myself to eat while on DXM as much as it would be unnatural to *not* eat (fast) while not under that unfluence.

"a little off topic, do you think that you are your mind, body, both, neither?"

I'm not sure, but i do believe conscious awareness can exist separate from physical matter. It's the "i" i'm not sure about. Is it a product of non-physical awareness or of consciousness interacting with the body or of only the body, i really have no idea.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: denying your humanity [Re: BoneMan]
    #4550734 - 08/18/05 09:36 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BoneMan said:
personally I find my body's needs to be annoying and distracting.

certain needs, that is.

food is easy to get a hold of and its very satisfying to eat a nice big meal when im hungry.

sleep is a problem sometimes, such as when i have to get up early for work or school. but still its no challenge to get enough of it.

but i cant stand the need for sex. people might say its not truly a need because you won't die from lack of sex. all i know is it sucks big hairy kong balls to crave sex (or at least intimacy and physical affection) and have no one to get some from.

i guess its just my mind's need, but my body is a necessary part of fulfilling it. repressing the need for sex can't be healthy, but im in the midst of a serious dry spell and theres not a woman in sight.

i have become used to having no sex whatsoever, but it never gets any easier to ignore the urge.

i blame women for being so damn sexy




If it bothers you so much, avoid situations where you come in contact with women.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineBoneMan
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Re: denying your humanity [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4553946 - 08/19/05 01:16 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

never!!


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: denying your humanity [Re: BoneMan]
    #4554004 - 08/19/05 01:31 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I am mostly Yeti.


--------------------
PsyPost - Psychedelic Research


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