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Invisibleagar
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WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES
    #4532477 - 08/14/05 03:58 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES.

Some use Rye grain, WBS, wheat straw, BRF/Verm (cakes) as a "substrate" Some use combinations of those materials.

Others use "BULK" substrates, I., E, compost, h/poo, or manure/wheat straw combinations (quasi/compost).

It is generally accepted that P. Cubensis grown out on "BULK" substrates have far higher yields, and greater potency than other lesser substrates.

HERE IS WHY "BULK" SUBSTRATES ARE FAR BETTER.

Straight Grain, WBS, Wheat straw, BRF/Verm or combinations of those DO NOT contain dead cells of thermophilic microbes, various bacteria, and actinomycetes "firefang", which are the very things that deliver OPTIMAL protein, fat (lipids) & micro-nutrients components (Chitin - for instance) to the mushroom.

Bulk substrates, on the other hand, contain a very high percentage, and variety those benifical (dead) microbes.

Moreover, lesser substrates contain very little nitrogen, while Bulk substrates contain significant amounts of nitrogen.

A positive correlation of substrate nitrogen and yield has been well proven in commercial edible?s cultivation. The greater the nitrogen content (up to a certain point), the higher the yield. And, in the case of P. Cubensis (arguably) delivering far higher potency.

Furthermore, there is the matter of "digestibility". 

P. Cubensis excrete a complex array of genetically predetermined enzymes in order to digest substrate nutrients. Those enzymes degrade nutrients into simple soluble forms of sugars, amino acids, lipids & micro-nutrient components which are easily absorbed into the mycelia network, thereby producing optimal yields under good environmental conditions.

Optimal Bulk substrates (1. compost, 2. h/poo & 3. quasi-compost manure/wheat straw combinations) are highly biodegraded. Excepting the wheat straw  component in 3 above. However, the manure content of manure/wheat straw combination, impart makes up that deficiency.

Consequently, Bulk substrates have an optimal biodegraded composition, which holds moisture, and is easily digested by the mycelium network, giving it the ability to produce optimal yields, given good environmental conditions.

Conversely, lesser substrates are not generally biodegraded in any way. Which means a mycelium network has to work harder to emit more extracellular enzymes to degrade that material into digestible form. Which is most often not as nutritious as Bulk substrates - overall. 

Some will argue that, things like BRF, Rye, WBS is easily digested by mycelium.

In the cased of BRF, it is a fact that BRF type PF cake jars, colonize much slower that do seed/grain spawn. Why is that? Answer, the nutrient composition is not optimal.

Ideally prepared seed/grain spawn jars generally colonize quickly. However, that is somewhat deceptive. As, while the seed grain exterior is colonized rather rapidly, it takes much longer for the mycelium to actually penetrate to the interior of the seed grain, and digest the nutrients there.

That is why seed/grain spawn is considered to provide delayed release nutrients, to a Bulk substrate. And/or why sterilized grain additives (SpawnMate for instance) are added to a Bulk substrate (as a delayed release nutrient) at the same time colonized seed/grain spawn is.

What it all comes down to is, Rye, WBS, BRF lack significant - quickly digestible fiber & nitrogen, as well as beneficial (dead) microbial content.

Wheat Straw (uncomposted) lacks nitrogen, (dead) microbial content, is high in fiber, but because it is not biodegraded, is consequently difficult for mycelium to digest. Nor, will it hold an optimal moisture content, over any extended period.

Plainly stated, certainly various individual nutrients are effective, and will produce fruits. However, it takes a high degree of diversity, biodegraded fiber, airy texture composition, and the ability to absorb, and hold a high degree of moisture, for a substrate to be optimal.

For instance, sugar is a nutrient. However, If YOU had only sugar to eat, it would have adverse affects on you. The same goes for mushrooms.

Mycelium requires a diverse diet, high in numerous types of nutrients, with a certain texture, composition, moisture absorption & retention capacity ? to be OPTIMAL.

Anything LESS than OPTIMAL will result in adverse effects, and poor to mediocre yields.

That is why the BULK substrates referred to above are FAR BETTER than the lesser substrates mentioned.

:rolleyes: Bong hit four.  :stoned:


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OfflineNorCalKing
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES [Re: agar]
    #4532500 - 08/14/05 04:03 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Es muy verdad.

It's very true.


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Offlinekimikiri
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES [Re: NorCalKing]
    #4532510 - 08/14/05 04:06 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

:eek: Taking this all in  :eek:


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Those who would sacrifice their freedoms for securities deserve neither, and will soon lose both.

-Benjamin Franklin


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Offlinedjsage420
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES [Re: kimikiri]
    #4532894 - 08/14/05 07:04 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

thanks for the informative post man, I just started using poo in fact I just had my first harvest and the turn inky blue when as soon as I pick them, while rice grown shrooms turned blue after 10 mins.

I also have a theory about using grains
Grains dont have all the nutes a shroom wants, then you inooculate it and colonize the jar, while mycelium is colonizing jar its sucking down nutrients, so when you fruit it you are starting with even less nutrients. Poo seems to have more then enough nutrients to fruit on....


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If you put your head to the grass, you can hear it growing


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Offlineiambobby
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES [Re: djsage420]
    #4532920 - 08/14/05 07:26 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

That was an awesome read man. Thankyou. Now, hit number 5 while you take us to the next level? :laugh:


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Yesterday, the world was flat. Today, the world is a round ball. Tomorrow? The world will not be defined so easily with words...


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Invisibleagar
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES [Re: iambobby]
    #4533050 - 08/14/05 09:35 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)


Find some weathered h/poo.

Or, make some compost.

And - the fruits will take you to LEVEL 5


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InvisibleThinkPink
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES [Re: agar]
    #4533229 - 08/14/05 10:54 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Wow, great post, very informative


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I tripped and fell into a revolution


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InvisibleBoondock
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES [Re: ThinkPink]
    #4533323 - 08/14/05 11:39 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I learn something every time you post

thanks !


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Look within.
Be still.
Free from fear and attachment
know the sweet joy of the way.
Buddha



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OfflineGregHimself
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES [Re: ThinkPink]
    #4533372 - 08/14/05 11:54 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

WHen u are reffering to compost do u mean home made compost or bagged compost, cause most of the bagged compost i have ever seen usually is chalk full of wood particles that are ususally soaked in a compost tea..curious if these work. THanks
Greg


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"The key to successful cultivation is to match the skills of the cultivator with the right strain on the proper substrate under ideal environmental conditions."
Paul Stamets
Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms(Third Edition)


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Offlinecoda
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES [Re: GregHimself]
    #4533489 - 08/14/05 12:43 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

so are you techincally better off making a jar up of poo/compost and other stuff to fluff it out, or using grain for a spawn run?


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To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

-JG



Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.


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Invisibleagar
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES [Re: GregHimself]
    #4533494 - 08/14/05 12:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I am referring to a tailor made compost - specifically for P. Cubensis.

Something on the order of Compost tailored just for dung lovers: carbon / nitrogen ratio <17:1, nitrogen 2.6%, phosphorus 0.2-05%, potassium 1.5-2.5%, calcium 1.5-2.5%, available boron <2 ppm, available ammonium <10 ppm, soluble salts 3.0-5 OdS/m



Store bought bagged compost is good for the garden, not for mushrooms.


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InvisibleTippinthru
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES [Re: agar]
    #4533833 - 08/14/05 02:58 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Sumbitch! Is there no end to your knowledge? :wink:


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Perfection is attained by slow degrees; it requires the hand of time...
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Offlineiambobby
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES [Re: Tippinthru]
    #4536975 - 08/15/05 08:09 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Hahahahahh your second post is a classic\!!!


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Yesterday, the world was flat. Today, the world is a round ball. Tomorrow? The world will not be defined so easily with words...


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OfflineS33D
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES [Re: agar]
    #5614889 - 05/10/06 11:18 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Sorry just had to *bump* this, some GREAT info. Definitely adding to my cultivation folder.
Thanx Agar :smile: :thumbup:


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If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits eighty-eight miles per hour... you're gonna see some serious shit.
~Dr. Emmett Brown


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Offlinevintage_gonzo
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES [Re: S33D]
    #5614933 - 05/10/06 11:25 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

whens your myco-nitro commin out agar?


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES [Re: vintage_gonzo]
    #5614953 - 05/10/06 11:28 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

He hasn't posted in 10 days...


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HELP!!!!!!!!!


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InvisibleBrainiac
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES *DELETED* [Re: vintage_gonzo]
    #5614970 - 05/10/06 11:30 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by Brainiac

Reason for deletion: ..



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:Awesketch:

:cool: Fair is Fair :devil:


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Offlinetreeyei
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES [Re: Brainiac]
    #5900981 - 07/26/06 04:58 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

dagnabit I want more posts to this thread but having nothing to contribute to encourage this! ~ haha!


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES [Re: treeyei]
    #5901038 - 07/26/06 05:55 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Glycine and ammonium succinate are the optimal nitrogen sources for best potency. O.17% glycine N and 0.02% ammonia N performed the best as far as potency. That might not be the optimal amounts or ratio but it outperformed urea, ammonia, or nitrate alone, as far as what was tested in the experiment.

The relationship of carbon and nitrogen nutrition of Psilocybe baeocystis to the production of psilocybin and its analogs.
Lloydia. 1969 Mar;32(1):66-71.
Leung AY, Paul AG.


-FF


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It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed

"If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP)

I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid


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Offlinedstark
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Re: WHY COMPOST OR H/POO IS BETTER THAN OTHER SUBSTRATES [Re: agar]
    #8161733 - 03/18/08 12:59 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Cant say more then GRAEt info, GREAT work and that it was very useful!

Thanks


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What is a mind, if not something to be messed with? What is consciousness, if not a state to be altered?

~I Feel
:mushroom2:
at Home~


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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