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Invisibleafoaf
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any electricians?
    #4474838 - 07/30/05 10:36 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I need to wire a 220v socket in my garage for my new table saw.

my father in law indicated that a 220v outlet is nothing more than
2 hot 120v wires and a single conduit.

first, is this correct?

I checked my electrical panel and all the breakers say 120/240 VAC.

this implies to me that they can handle 120 or 240.

is this correct?

if the first two questions are true...I have another...

if this is, indeed, the case, to power an appliance that requires
220v, could I simply bridge two 120v wall sockets?

for example, take two male ends of two extension cords and
plug them into a standard 120v wall socket, then bridge the
two 'hot' wires (one in each extension segment) together
into a 220v female socket?

Basically, Y two 120v outlets into a 220v socket.

any electricians?!


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: any electricians? [Re: afoaf]
    #4474861 - 07/30/05 10:43 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I was an electricians apprentice...


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Offlinelowdominion
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Re: any electricians? [Re: Shroomism]
    #4474876 - 07/30/05 10:45 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

for 220 you would need to get a 220 volt breaker on you panel that will take up 2 120 slots check to see if you have enough room then you just need to run 1 circuit to an appropriately rated outlet


Edited by lowdominion (07/30/05 10:46 PM)


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: any electricians? [Re: lowdominion]
    #4474909 - 07/30/05 10:51 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I got a new breaker.

basically what I'm driving at is whether or not
I can do this without running a new stretch of
wire to the shop along the outside of the house.

I got the shielded wiring, the breaker and
the brackets, but I'm hoping for an easy out.

...at least a low maintence one.

Shroomism, make with the info, you hippy-ass bitch.

:ooo:


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Offlinelowdominion
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Re: any electricians? [Re: afoaf]
    #4474941 - 07/30/05 10:58 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

what size wire do you have depending on how many amps you are pulling you might be able to get away by just switching out a 120 receptacle on s single circuit


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Offlinelowdominion
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Re: any electricians? [Re: lowdominion]
    #4474946 - 07/30/05 11:00 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

oh and to answer your other question no you can't put two 120 cords together and make 220 out of it


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InvisibleRipple
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Re: any electricians? [Re: afoaf]
    #4475041 - 07/30/05 11:23 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Read a book you lazy bastard :wink:


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: any electricians? [Re: lowdominion]
    #4475093 - 07/30/05 11:43 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

lowdominion said:
oh and to answer your other question no you can't put two 120 cords together and make 220 out of it




Isn't that what a 240v breaker does?

There isn't a 240v line coming into your house, in North America...just two 120v lines that you can double up to get 240v.


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: any electricians? [Re: afoaf]
    #4475105 - 07/30/05 11:46 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I would definitely run a new length of wire. A table saw could potentially pull a lot of amps, so you'll probably want to use a heavier wire than the wire usually used for 15 amp circuits (usually a 14/2, at least in Canada). Anything else could pose a fire hazard.

I would use a 12/3 cable (12 guage, 3 wire + ground). Make sure you match the amperage on the breaker to the max amps on the table saw.


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: any electricians? [Re: afoaf]
    #4475121 - 07/30/05 11:51 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

if this is, indeed, the case, to power an appliance that requires
220v, could I simply bridge two 120v wall sockets?


No this won't work. To get the 240v you need to bridge two separate lines. Most wall sockets in any given room should be on the same line.

In your fuse box there are two steel bars running along the back, which are each a 120v bus. In most boxes I have seen it is set up so that the breakers alternate which bus they are attatched to. Something like:

1212121212
2121212121

So if you have one of those 2-slot breakers, you can see that your breaker connects to BOTH bus 1 and 2. That gives it 240v.

Each bus connects on a separate line back to the utility pole or transformer.


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: any electricians? [Re: afoaf]
    #4475124 - 07/30/05 11:53 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Does the table saw have a special 4-prong plug on it, or is it the standard 3-prong?


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Offlinelowdominion
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Re: any electricians? [Re: trendal]
    #4475129 - 07/30/05 11:54 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
if this is, indeed, the case, to power an appliance that requires
220v, could I simply bridge two 120v wall sockets?


No this won't work. To get the 240v you need to bridge two separate lines. Most wall sockets in any given room should be on the same line.

In your fuse box there are two steel bars running along the back, which are each a 120v bus. In most boxes I have seen it is set up so that the breakers alternate which bus they are attatched to. Something like:

1212121212
2121212121

So if you have one of those 2-slot breakers, you can see that your breaker connects to BOTH bus 1 and 2. That gives it 240v.

Each bus connects on a separate line back to the utility pole or transformer.




thats what i was refering to bridging two 120's not working


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: any electricians? [Re: afoaf]
    #4475135 - 07/30/05 11:57 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

My girlfriend's dad is an electrician.

That helps you 0 percent.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: any electricians? [Re: afoaf]
    #4475143 - 07/30/05 11:59 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Ya mon you gots to run a new wire see


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Offlinegoob
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Re: any electricians? [Re: trendal]
    #4475151 - 07/31/05 12:00 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Here's another one:

American appliances wont work in England because they wire 220, so all you have to do is plug into one side of the outlet + the ground, Right?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: any electricians? [Re: goob]
    #4475396 - 07/31/05 12:53 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

wikipedia has a better explanation than i can give you.

Quote:

A transformer connected to a 3-wire distribution system has a single phase input (primary) winding. The output (secondary) winding is centre-tapped with a conductor called the neutral on the centre tap, which is normally connected to earth ground. Split phase is most common in countries with a standard phase-neutral voltage of 120V (or thereabouts). In this case, the transformer is rated 120 volts on either side of the centre tap, giving 240 volts between the two ungrounded terminals. It is also feasible to have a 240V/480V split phase system and this is sometimes used in the UK for running large farms or groups of a few houses off a single transformer where only two of the 3 phase cores of the 11KV systems are availible (its a lot cheaper to run two wires than 3). However with such systems power is usually split out to single ended single phase before entering the houses.

The neutral conductor ensures that the voltages on the two legs do not get (far) out of balance. Lighting and small appliances operating at 120 V can be directly supplied, by connection between a live wire and the neutral. By distributing the load between the two live conductors, the system provides better voltage regulation and allows for the use of smaller conductors than a single-ended single phase system would allow. Large applicances, such as cooking equipment, space heating, water pumps, clothes dryers, and air conditioners are connected across the two live conductors and operate at 240 V, requiring less current and smaller conductors than they would need at 120 V. No individual conductor will be at more than 120 V potential with respect to ground (earth) possibly reducing the insulation requirements compared to a 240-volt single-ended system.





I looked a little and found some information about converting a 120v wall outlet into a 240v. Ac current utilizes (now) 2 and 3 phases, which means that there are 2 or 3 "sine waves" of 120v each 90 degrees out of phases from each other. I was told once how to do this, but couldnt grasp it completely with my limited knowledge of it, but i distinctly remember it had something to do with harnessing another phase of the ac current.


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Offlinelowdominion
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Re: any electricians? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4475442 - 07/31/05 01:03 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

the breaker takes care of combining the two phases


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Invisiblegoobler
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Re: any electricians? [Re: lowdominion]
    #4476611 - 07/31/05 09:46 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

lowdominion said:
for 220 you would need to get a 220 volt breaker on you panel that will take up 2 120 slots check to see if you have enough room then you just need to run 1 circuit to an appropriately rated outlet




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Invisiblebackupwards
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Re: any electricians? [Re: goobler]
    #4476618 - 07/31/05 09:54 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

get yourself a 40 amp breaker and some 12/3 wire and that will take care of what you need.
peace


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: any electricians? [Re: afoaf]
    #4476701 - 07/31/05 10:49 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for everyone's help.

I'm installing 2 dedicated 120v 20amp breakers in
the box and running the line to the woodshop.

The table saw only pulls about 7.5 and everyone
I've spoken to and everything I've read indicates
that a 20 amp circuit is preferrable.

Just need to remember to shut off the main before
I touch the 3rd rail!!!


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