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OfflineMetasyn
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Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 236
Last seen: 11 months, 17 days
psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience
    #4246156 - 06/02/05 12:08 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

sometimes i feel that psychedelics can be a dead end toward spiritual or personal growth. its really easy to feel enlightened and empowered while you're tripping, but it seems almost like a cruel joke on nature's part that this lasts only as long as the experience does. the next day (or the next week), its back to the same old thing. the same people end up bringing you down and reflecting the worst in you. it stops being easy to recognize the beauty in everything and you get caught up in life's little troubles. why does this have to happen? why is the beauty glimpsed on psychedelic drugs so ephemeral? how can one retain these lessons learned more throughout everyday life?
one problem for me is other people. we are all embedded in a dense ego-driven matrix of people who by and large don't often think or act enlightened. it would be a lot easier to 'be tripping all the time' if everyone around you was too. its far, far harder to disengage yourself from the ego matrix all alone and be ego-less.
another problem is the reliance on old patterns and habits. psychedelics are supposed to dissolve these patterns and leave you free to relearn how to live, but alas, the next day is often very much the same as it was before.

does anyone else feel this way, agree, disagree, or have any advice?


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OfflineHedgeWych
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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: Metasyn]
    #4246188 - 06/02/05 12:18 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I have felt the same way myself.

I suppose that everyone has their own way of retaining the lessons. I like to write afterwards. I also like to paint and draw during, truly bringing with you some of the beauty. Primarially, meditation is my biggest key to retention.

Try and focus on those lessons. If your interaction with others prompts you to loose some of those lessons (me wanting to scream at the perpetually stupid people), take a moment to remember. Be the duck!!! just let their crap roll off of you. cheezy, yes... effective, yes... lol

I think a very helpful thing is to never forget that the psychedelics are tools. When we think of them as toys, then we loose some respect and start to forget, and even ignore, the lessons that we learn.

I hope this was of some help.

Hotep and namaste,

HedgeWych


Edited by HedgeWych (06/02/05 12:19 AM)


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Registered: 04/07/05
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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: Metasyn]
    #4246192 - 06/02/05 12:19 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

i dunno
psychedelics can show you the path
it's up to you to walk it
the feeling doesnt last in my expereince, only the lessons you remember, and sometimes would like to forget
lots of times it takes guts to follow through with what you learn and what you learn can be hard
the visions don't care about you they are the voice of god
it is just the voice there that you are seeing
what you do with that is up to you and it can be hard to handle
you open your vision and you may not be ready for it
i am not ready for it much of the time
just had a bad trip- i'm trying to integrate, myself
good luck & god bless


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


Edited by crunchytoast (06/02/05 12:22 AM)


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OfflineDrink_Punk_Soda
Now with ExtraVaganza!?
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Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 1,677
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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: Metasyn]
    #4246201 - 06/02/05 12:21 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Metasyn said:
psychedelics are supposed to dissolve these patterns and leave you free to relearn how to live




Sorry, I missed that description on th box.  :tongue2:

Psychadelics can allow you to forget your ego-related patterns.  In this way, they can and do show you that you can live without them, or at the very least, alter them.  They don't dissolve habits or values that you've completely integrated into your ego.  Only you can do that.  Sometimes the psychadelic experience helps you to realize this, or to become "enlightened" as to how to begin to change.


--------------------

Kumbayah my lord, Kumbayah...


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/14/04
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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4246206 - 06/02/05 12:22 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Walking the path is not quite as fun as just seeing the path when your all fried out. Walking it requires effort and the progress is slow.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4246258 - 06/02/05 12:39 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

its difficult but not impossible. you have to stay mindful and not allow yourself to get sucked down by the unawareness of the people you're with. i agree it would be easier if you were around enlightened people.


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Offlinegnrm23
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ram dass: [Re: Deviate]
    #4247476 - 06/02/05 12:09 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

talked a bit about the "psychedelic yo-yo" effect in his book BE HERE NOW...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Onlinerogue_pixie
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Re: ram dass: [Re: gnrm23]
    #4247489 - 06/02/05 12:14 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

If the feeling lasted all of the time, the experience wouldn't be as enlightening or enriching, it'd just be another thing that you took for granted.


--------------------
'It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.' ~ J. Krishnamurti


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4247960 - 06/02/05 02:38 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
....and the progress is slow.




Dependant on one's personal manner of acceleration, perhaps it is not slow at all. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: Metasyn]
    #4248163 - 06/02/05 03:26 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yep, I second the suggestion for BE HERE NOW. Good ol' Dick Alpert was tired of going up and coming down, so he wanted to understand just what the LSD Experience really was. He took his Acid to India, encountered a real live Guru (Neem Karolie Baba), gave the Guru the Acid, and the Guru had a Teacher instruct Dick in just what the Psychedelic Experience is - it is Consciousness - concentrated, simplified, clarified, purified Consciousness. Moreover, what is this purified Consciousness?.....................it is GOD.

You don't want to 'get' high, you want to 'BE' High: High-mindedness turns out to be Holiness, which turns out to be 'Wholeness' (which is why, despite the disruptions, the Psychedelic Experience is so fullfilling). The Experience elicits morality based on Compassion, and one Understands why the Heart Center on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life (the Jewish Hridayam, "Heart Cave") is called both Beauty (Tiphereth) AND Compassion (Rahamim). When one experiences this, one has been embraced by Wisdom - one has been granted Gnosis - and one must then Work to manifest this Truth in one's life. This is called the Great Work in the West, and it's a full-time occupation, but it's a labor-of-love  :heart:

---------------------
In Interiore Homine Habitat Veritas


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinebemused
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Registered: 05/31/05
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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: Metasyn]
    #4249446 - 06/02/05 08:16 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

"the same people end up bringing you down and reflecting the worst in you... one problem for me is other people. we are all embedded in a dense ego-driven matrix of people who by and large don't often think or act enlightened."

"The same people." Your post sounds lonely. If these people are ones who you interact with on a regular basis, maybe you can communicate with them and find that they're not as ego-driven as you think and are more emphatic than you assume. If you can apply what you've learned to your interaction with those who bring you down, perhaps they will no longer bring out the worst in you.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4249518 - 06/02/05 08:33 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

is that a german shepard?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineSuperLazy
As lazy as theycome

Registered: 09/17/03
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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: Metasyn]
    #4249708 - 06/02/05 09:20 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I think I know a lot of people with that problem.


--------------------
" Don't ration your compassion " - unknown


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4249745 - 06/02/05 09:29 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Walking the path is not quite as fun as just seeing the path when your all fried out. Walking it requires effort and the progress is slow.




Yes!  :thumbup: Life will decided how you will grow and the timeframe, but you have to surrender to what is happening rather than insisting on how your progress is supposed to look.

If you really want growth, life will bring it to you. If you're kidding yourself you will find plenty of reasons why it can't happen.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinegnrm23
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a slippery analogy: [Re: Metasyn]
    #4251525 - 06/03/05 09:36 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

from an old alan watts story:
an lsd experience is like being in the deep woods & having to climb a tree to see the lay of the land... where the sun is, which way to the hills or the valley, & generally to get your bearings, so that you can continue on your journey... so you have to pay attention to what's what & where you are & such, & retain this info so that when you reach the forest floor again, you can continue on your way...
but, if you try to climb every tree on your path, (or even keep climbing the same tree) --- well, you'll never get out of the forest...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4251772 - 06/03/05 11:54 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Yep, I second the suggestion for BE HERE NOW. Good ol' Dick Alpert was tired of going up and coming down, so he wanted to understand just what the LSD Experience really was. He took his Acid to India, encountered a real live Guru (Neem Karolie Baba), gave the Guru the Acid, and the Guru had a Teacher instruct Dick in just what the Psychedelic Experience is - it is Consciousness - concentrated, simplified, clarified, purified Consciousness. Moreover, what is this purified Consciousness?.....................it is GOD.

You don't want to 'get' high, you want to 'BE' High: High-mindedness turns out to be Holiness, which turns out to be 'Wholeness' (which is why, despite the disruptions, the Psychedelic Experience is so fullfilling). The Experience elicits morality based on Compassion, and one Understands why the Heart Center on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life (the Jewish Hridayam, "Heart Cave") is called both Beauty (Tiphereth) AND Compassion (Rahamim). When one experiences this, one has been embraced by Wisdom - one has been granted Gnosis - and one must then Work to manifest this Truth in one's life. This is called the Great Work in the West, and it's a full-time occupation, but it's a labor-of-love  :heart:

---------------------
In Interiore Homine Habitat Veritas




that was beautiful Mark.  :heart: :yesnod:


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #4251835 - 06/03/05 12:22 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Yep, I second the suggestion for BE HERE NOW. Good ol' Dick Alpert was tired of going up and coming down, so he wanted to understand just what the LSD Experience really was. He took his Acid to India, encountered a real live Guru (Neem Karolie Baba), gave the Guru the Acid, and the Guru had a Teacher instruct Dick in just what the Psychedelic Experience is - it is Consciousness - concentrated, simplified, clarified, purified Consciousness. Moreover, what is this purified Consciousness?.....................it is GOD.

You don't want to 'get' high, you want to 'BE' High: High-mindedness turns out to be Holiness, which turns out to be 'Wholeness' (which is why, despite the disruptions, the Psychedelic Experience is so fullfilling). The Experience elicits morality based on Compassion, and one Understands why the Heart Center on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life (the Jewish Hridayam, "Heart Cave") is called both Beauty (Tiphereth) AND Compassion (Rahamim). When one experiences this, one has been embraced by Wisdom - one has been granted Gnosis - and one must then Work to manifest this Truth in one's life. This is called the Great Work in the West, and it's a full-time occupation, but it's a labor-of-love  :heart:

---------------------
In Interiore Homine Habitat Veritas




that was beautiful Mark.  :heart: :yesnod:




I think this is cool also Mark.

I do have a problem ( and it may just be my hangup) with using stories of interactions between guru and students to illustrate points or ideas. I work with what I call a true believer, he tells me these tales he reads in the books and expects me to just believe all these miracles occur although he or I have no personal experience around any thing like this in our own lives. Then he gets bent when I tell him I don't believe any of it.

The rest of the story is, I believe, the guru says, give me the medicine, and takes a staggering dose of LSD. Nothing happens because he is so awake and aware that he is already in a more profound place.

I'm not saying it isn't true. Just that I don't believe it. My co-worker acts like he is enlightened because of his connection to this Neem guy whom he met a few times. Yet he acts like a jerk everytime anyone crosses him. I know he doesn't represent this Neem guy, but frankly, Neem has a lot of, IMO ,dufas converts in my town. They all act like robots to me.

Sorry for this rant. I do believe the conclusions you have drawn here. I just had to get it off my chest. :blush: :heart: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #4254346 - 06/04/05 01:00 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks ShroomDoom!


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: Icelander]
    #4254406 - 06/04/05 01:21 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Well, good for ya. We have this Joya woman in Florida ( I think it is the same person who runs an 'ashram') - Ram Dass wrote about her when she was in Brooklyn, NY pretending that Neem Karolie Baba was in her basement, and she contacted ram Dass, who immediately went to see (since Neem Karolie had already 'died'). He was visible only to Joya, who I believe was a complete charlatan.

I think that a lot of paranormal activities may well have 'constellated' around Neem Karolie, but I also think that there are numerous supernatural fabrications - many of which are in the book 'Miracle of Love.' I gave the book to my late father who said "Bubbamonsas" (Yiddish for 'old wive's tales'). I am willing to believe the events in BE HERE NOW, and I have been profoundly effected by that book - for the better - so the spiritual 'import' has been transforming, yet I cannot even pretend to have any kind of personal relationship with Neem Karolie. In fact, Ram Dass points out in BE HERE NOW that the transforming relationship with the Guru is NOT personal. The personal stuff was just "hanging out," what happened at the deep level may have been 'constellated' in the presence of the embodied Guru, but the what happened was of GOD. This shakes up any Jewish, Christian or Muslim who allows him/herself to be so effected by these reports.

I'll say this though, after someone handed me a BE HERE NOW in the peak of an acid trip, my whole life changed. I wanted to get 2 copies and wallpaper my home bedroom with the pages. My earnest discontent turned to exaltation just like Ram Dass after his "external hallucination" of himself in the first part of the book. I understood what religions were about and that mysticism was at the heart of all religions. I found purpose in a quest for more experience and deeper understanding which has not let up since 1973, but I am not a Guru-groupie.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: a slippery analogy: [Re: gnrm23]
    #4254455 - 06/04/05 01:37 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

an lsd experience is like being in the deep woods & having to climb a tree to see the lay of the land... where the sun is, which way to the hills or the valley, & generally to get your bearings

How do colorful, interwoven geometric patterns point the way towards anything at all?  :rolleyes:

I forget. Does a pulsing blue dodecahedron mean I should take that job at Wendy's or Burger King?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (06/04/05 01:46 AM)


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