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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4255178 -

OldWoodSpecter said:
is that a german shepard?


Norwegian Elkhound. :wink:

Skorpivo created the image from a picture of Odin, my dog. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4255192 -

Funny, I had the same transformational process after my first trip on some very nice XTC. I went into some kind of a bliss state for about 6 hours. For the next 6 months, I was wide open. I found a book at the Good Will for 67cents and bought it because it's cover vaguely reminded me of that XTC love state. As I browsed it I was blown away by the method and knew instinctively that if I used it my transformation would continue on the fast track. That was 3 years ago and I was right. Oh, the book is called The Handbook to Higher Consciousness, by Ken Keyes. Later my new partner told me I was using a kind of Rational Emotive Therapy. Which is what she used for her transformational process. How convenient! Now we do it together. :heart: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: Icelander]
    #4255265 -

Yes, Keyes book was helpful, but I admit that I sort of skipped the RET aspect - 'brain as computer to be reprogrammed,' and pondered his take on chakra psychology. One thing that I rememberis a saying that 'We create as much suffering when we take offense as when we are offensive to others.'


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4255283 -

Well, it's a big world with many paths. My partner used no psychedelics to speak of before we met. She was working with some Wicca stuff and then fell into Tantra where she has found a home.

I like the psychedelic path. Still a big fan of Castanada and Taoism. I've looked at Chaos Magick and just about everything else.

My spiritual path is called Mish Mash. I have become fond of crashing around in the bush. I may not know where I am, but I like the terrain. :grin: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: Icelander]
    #4256034 -

The experiance is ephemeral because LIFE is ephemeral!

I think it is (or at least should be) understood that psychedelics don't "enlighten" you. People may have "enlightening" experiances, but then they come down and are no longer enlightened. Really, they were just INSIGHTFUL experiances. Enlightenment is being able to take that insight and make a transformation in your life.

It's not easy. Life's not easy, and tripping's not easy.

So we must learn to cultivate insightful experiances and mindsets without drugs. Otherwise we will be just as ignorant and self-righteous as everyone else, despite the fact that god showed us the secrets of the universe.

Just keep walking that path, and search for meaning in everything you do. Every moment is a spiritual one, it just doesn't seem like it at first.


--------------------

http://www.myspace.com/sarasotafnb
http://www.wcwtampa.com

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Re: a slippery analogy: [Re: Swami]
    #4256086 -

Swami said:
an lsd experience is like being in the deep woods & having to climb a tree to see the lay of the land... where the sun is, which way to the hills or the valley, & generally to get your bearings

How do colorful, interwoven geometric patterns point the way towards anything at all?  :rolleyes:

I forget. Does a pulsing blue dodecahedron mean I should take that job at Wendy's or Burger King?


Yeah, cause tripping is just pretty colors and cool shapes. That's the only thing that psychedelics make you experiance.

Swami, I like you. You've got balls and you question everything. But you too fucking antagonistic and sarcastic! I think the only constructive thing I've ever heard you say was in that raquetball thread you made a while ago.


--------------------

http://www.myspace.com/sarasotafnb
http://www.wcwtampa.com

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Re: a slippery analogy: [Re: dr0mni]
    #4256415 -

Yeah, cause tripping is just pretty colors and cool shapes. That's the only thing that psychedelics make you experiance.

Don't be silly! Sometimes there are heart-chilling panic attacks, existential angst - where everything seems meaningless and empty and major psychotic episodes, like the guy who tried to wash his sins away with broken glass, but I try not to focus on the negative.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: a slippery analogy: [Re: Swami]
    #4256496 -

Everyone gets something different from the use of psychedelics. I cannot know if someone else experiences personal transformation from there use. Sometimes I don't see the pretty colors. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: Metasyn]
    #4256539 -

Metasyn said:
sometimes i feel that psychedelics can be a dead end toward spiritual or personal growth. its really easy to feel enlightened and empowered while you're tripping, but it seems almost like a cruel joke on nature's part that this lasts only as long as the experience does. the next day (or the next week), its back to the same old thing. the same people end up bringing you down and reflecting the worst in you. it stops being easy to recognize the beauty in everything and you get caught up in life's little troubles. why does this have to happen? why is the beauty glimpsed on psychedelic drugs so ephemeral? how can one retain these lessons learned more throughout everyday life?
one problem for me is other people. we are all embedded in a dense ego-driven matrix of people who by and large don't often think or act enlightened. it would be a lot easier to 'be tripping all the time' if everyone around you was too. its far, far harder to disengage yourself from the ego matrix all alone and be ego-less.
another problem is the reliance on old patterns and habits. psychedelics are supposed to dissolve these patterns and leave you free to relearn how to live, but alas, the next day is often very much the same as it was before.

does anyone else feel this way, agree, disagree, or have any advice?


aggree disagree and have advice,
but I must say,
and you would probably see it the same now or under the influence,

balancing your energy at those really exquisite levels, and walking the "path of wonder" are a matter of synchronization and movement, this is always turning (and tuning in) to a different moment, so

you can't actually attain a permanent state of enlightenment.
(at each moment there is a different dance and a different beauty.)
although
you may rise to this occasion, with entheogen or by your own efforts,
and
each time it will be to a different centeredness that moves with everything at that time.

the constant is change.
so there is no attainment;
you can, however, begin
on this path anew daily.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4257342 -

Perfect. A constant state of departure while always arriving. The Path is perfection of the Soul through transgression brought by the psychedelic experience. You dump it out, it'll go back in, but when it does hopefully it's for the better. Every time. The path is clear, choosing the path is difficult, but walking it is your obligation. People give up before they put in the required effort.

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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4465328 -

Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:I think that a lot of paranormal activities may well have 'constellated' around Neem Karolie, but I also think that there are numerous supernatural fabrications - many of which are in the book 'Miracle of Love.' I gave the book to my late father who said "Bubbamonsas" (Yiddish for 'old wive's tales').


---Acid led to me reading Be Here Now and plenty of other books on Eastern mysticism. At one point I went to Yogananda's place in Pac Pal, CA hoping to find my guru. (I was fifteen). Strangely, the TM center was close by. I learned TM. Did it a number of years. Still do actually. But have run through the guru thing.

It used to seem that everyone blew up their gurus as if they had the only pure gold. I know when I first started TM I used to tell all my friends it was like tripping, hoping one of them would start. So many gurus down the line now and all we are hearing is how Babaji molests kids, Muktananda had sex, Yogananda has illegitimate kids, Trungpa died driving drunk on the way to the whorehouse.

People came of age in the Guru scene over the last few years, but in Europe the same guru worship is going on. There a joker named Kalki who inspires people to write the below:


Freddie & Madeline Fairfield Friday 7/29, 7:00 PM at the Library.
Here is a snippet of Freddie's coming to Unity:
But before beginning, I must tell that I hesitated to write about
my experience, because many will probably not believe me.
I have been in a wonderful state for a very long time, I had always
a presence of love in the heart, there was a very deep peace, a
declutchment from the mind and so many miracles. This was enough
fire in my soul to keep on sharing this wonderful possibility that
Bhagavan and Amma are giving to everybody.
I felt that something new was going to happen to make me full of
fire again. So Bhagavan said I should get a special process. I
expected nothing, since I know that people who already have deep
states, and even more, have been practicing this teaching for very
long (in my case 13,5 years) will have a much more difficult process
than the newcomers.
I got quite a few dikshas, but nothing happened. . . . Then,
I saw there was nothing but an immense explosion of bliss and love.
This was life, and there had never been anything apart from this. I
merged with this eternal fountain of bliss, which people are calling
the Spirit, the Supreme Power or simply God. But it was not the
Supreme Power, for there was nothing but this Power, so how could it
be Supreme when there was nothing to compare with??? I slowly began
to explode inside this immense Bliss, and it was the power of
billions of atom bombs. How I survived, I still do not know. It must
be by Grace. I could not move because of the intensity of ecstatic
bliss
PS. Instead of tremendously strong explosions of love and bliss, it
is a 1000 times more natural thing now, more like a silent implosion
of all the joy in the universe. At the moment, I know I will never
fall back from this state, since the separation is cooooompletely
gone, the little and separate self is smashed to eternally small
pieces and become one with the stars. Also I forgot to mention that
Amma and Bhagavan are 100% alive inside me and it is them who give
all these states to me, and I love them beyond any description and
thank them immensely. DS.
for the full experience: http://www.livinginjoy.com/en/library/45


Frankly it makes me want to puke. I wouldn't care if Jesus walkeddown the street. If people wrote this above tripe about him I would puke blood.

I personally am over gurus, and their proclamed miracles, as well as their bilking people for money, and raping their souls.

Some people inspire others as if they were a drug. Life isn't like drugs. It's a good thing because sometimes one needs it to be plain or it's like having caviar on everything one eats - the saltiness will make you thirst continually and nothing will quench it.


--------------------
...or something






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Re: psychedelic dead-endedness and problems with integrating the psychedelic experience [Re: Metasyn]
    #4465581 -

Metasyn said:
sometimes i feel that psychedelics can be a dead end toward spiritual or personal growth. its really easy to feel enlightened and empowered while you're tripping, but it seems almost like a cruel joke on nature's part that this lasts only as long as the experience does. the next day (or the next week), its back to the same old thing. the same people end up bringing you down and reflecting the worst in you. it stops being easy to recognize the beauty in everything and you get caught up in life's little troubles. why does this have to happen? why is the beauty glimpsed on psychedelic drugs so ephemeral? how can one retain these lessons learned more throughout everyday life?
one problem for me is other people. we are all embedded in a dense ego-driven matrix of people who by and large don't often think or act enlightened. it would be a lot easier to 'be tripping all the time' if everyone around you was too. its far, far harder to disengage yourself from the ego matrix all alone and be ego-less.
another problem is the reliance on old patterns and habits. psychedelics are supposed to dissolve these patterns and leave you free to relearn how to live, but alas, the next day is often very much the same as it was before.

does anyone else feel this way, agree, disagree, or have any advice?


I disagree. When I'm off tripping I get a break from the humbug of everyday life in a easy attempt to learning something new about life. Alot of the time this works. Or at least my perception is different and life isn't boring. But whats so fun about the moment of being in a psychedelic state of mind is that the state of soberness is a completely different place.

I myself will sit there and find it hard to imagine that in an hour or few hours I'll be able to predict everything around me, control myself dully and look back to that interesting warp. That is so cool. Its weird like that. Sobriety is a far off place that you can't imagine being.

Its helped me see how time works and how different windows of the world exist. I appreciate psychedelics for what they have done, even if some stuff is quite powerful and a nuisance. But at least you've seen things... life isn't one plane I spose. Or at least one set of brain signals.


--------------------
"If you worried about falling off the bike, you would never get on."
Lance Armstrong


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