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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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what makes us human?
    #4244820 - 06/01/05 05:51 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

People say a lot of answers to this question.
Things like sexual instints, emotions, errors etc etc.

But let's see what really makes us human

If any of you had logic classes in school or wherever, you know the definition of definition.

Defining something has two parts:
1. putting it in the right logical category
2. specifying all characteristics that differ it from other things in that same category

So, starting from the ultimate category (something) and going down, you get to category primate.
So then, "human is a primate that..."
and there comes the second part

What makes him different from other primates?

It is not emotions because all mammals have emotions,
it is not sex, because all life reproduces, and almost all mammals reproduce in the same way.
It is not imprefection and making errors because all primates make errors in their process of learning

etc.

so I chalenge you to specify things that do make us human, and we will test them using the definition of definition


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisibleorechron
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4244846 - 06/01/05 05:56 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

The ability to use symbols.


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Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: orechron]
    #4244891 - 06/01/05 06:07 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

a monkey can recognize symbols and their meaning (you know those tests with pressing buttons)


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4244913 - 06/01/05 06:12 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Sarcasm is what separates us from the other animals.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: Swami]
    #4244925 - 06/01/05 06:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

yea, that passes the test

ok, let's go on, let's make a list


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisibleorechron
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: Swami]
    #4244930 - 06/01/05 06:16 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Peabody (my JRT) is about as sarcastic as a dog can be.

"Wanna play frisbee?" (holding his disc)
[peabody jumps around happily, follows me outside, lays down for a nap]


--------------------
Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: Swami]
    #4244940 - 06/01/05 06:17 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Sarcasm is what separates us from the other animals.




:rotfl: Of course!


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4244967 - 06/01/05 06:25 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Our unique genetic code is what makes us human. We have to ability to reproduce sexually with others with almost a completely identical genetic code to ours (ignoring the XX vs. XY differences which are necessary for sexual reproduction), while if you tried to fuck another animal all you'd get is pleasure.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: Ravus]
    #4245001 - 06/01/05 06:32 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Frogs have a unique genetic code to, everyone does.

your definition is a cricular one:

you would define human as:

"a primate who is different from other primates (has unique genetic code)"

that tells you nothing about humans


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4245037 - 06/01/05 06:40 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

It's not the act of having a unique genetic code, it's the genetic code itself. That's the only difference between a human and everybody else, as the genetic code is what creates the distinct human. Any other concepts we put on a human, whether it's sarcasm, language or wars, are just speculation for the most part, but the human genetics we know are unique to humans.

We're not different from other primates because we have a genetic code, but our genetic code is what makes us human. If you copied your genetic code in a hypothetical blank cell and let it grow, that would be completely human, making human genetics the defining human trait.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4245078 - 06/01/05 06:52 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

what makes us human?

The 0.5-1% of DNA which we do not share with our chimp cousins in the Ape kingdom :wink:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4245092 - 06/01/05 06:56 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

"Man is the only animal that blushes...or needs to." - Mark Twain


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: Ravus]
    #4245161 - 06/01/05 07:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
It's not the act of having a unique genetic code, it's the genetic code itself. That's the only difference between a human and everybody else, as the genetic code is what creates the distinct human. Any other concepts we put on a human, whether it's sarcasm, language or wars, are just speculation for the most part, but the human genetics we know are unique to humans.

We're not different from other primates because we have a genetic code, but our genetic code is what makes us human. If you copied your genetic code in a hypothetical blank cell and let it grow, that would be completely human, making human genetics the defining human trait.




I understand what you are saying, but you are not saying anything really if you look at it as a definition..

What you are saying is: the thing that differentiates this object from all other objects is that which makes it different wrong other objects

The questions is, what is inside this genetical difference? What specifically makes us human?

What makes a bird a bird is feathers and wings

and what makes a human human exept sarcasm?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: trendal]
    #4245163 - 06/01/05 07:16 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
what makes us human?

The 0.5-1% of DNA which we do not share with our chimp cousins in the Ape kingdom :wink:




again, this is not a valid definition..

like Ravus, you are saying: what makes this chair different from other chairs is its properties that other chairs don't have

this not a definition because it applies to EVERYTHING.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4245186 - 06/01/05 07:23 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

But that's same with any answer you give.

Say we accept sarcasm. What makes us human? We're made human because our sarcasm makes us different from other animals. But what makes humans sarcastic? Our genetic potential makes humans sarcastic. But what makes the human genetic potential? ...

Then you'll delve into the realm beyond humanity, into evolution and life as a whole.

Though I don't agree that sarcasm is a purely human trait, after living with my dog for years I can tell when he has a very sarcastic attitude.

Perhaps you could give an example of what you're looking for so as to clarify the discussion and avoid any reductio ad absurdum circumstances.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: Ravus]
    #4245201 - 06/01/05 07:26 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

What I am looking for is a logical definition, and am expecting posters to follow rules of defining.

I don't understand your point, you say you'd have to ask then what makes human sarcastic? Why would you ask that?
It's like having two boxes, one red and one green, then defining the red one as a "hox that is red", then you say, yea but "why is it red?"
who cares, the process of defining stops with indentifying unique qualities. Process of defining does not ask for you to explain qualities


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4245224 - 06/01/05 07:32 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
What I am looking for is a logical definition, and am expecting posters to follow rules of defining.



Ok, can you give us a logical definition of a chimpanzee?


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4245232 - 06/01/05 07:35 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I seemed to be following the same logic as you. For example, you said:

Quote:

like Ravus, you are saying: what makes this chair different from other chairs is its properties that other chairs don't have

this not a definition because it applies to EVERYTHING.




Yet what makes that chair different from other chairs IS the properties that other chairs don't have. That's the exact definition of being different. If you don't accept the definition of what makes you different from other animals, our human genetic code, then why would you accept anything else?

It's not a universally known trait of humans either, as we didn't know until relatively recently that humans even contained DNA, yet this DNA is what was acted upon by natural selection to create humans.

Quote:

who cares, the process of defining stops with indentifying unique qualities. Process of defining does not ask for you to explain qualities




So if someone copied the unique genetic sequences that make up homo sapiens, as that is their unique qualities compared to other life, then isn't that enough? You don't have to explain the genetics, that is simply the scientific trait which separates humans from other organisms.

I seem to be missing your definition that the genetic sequences unique to humans don't count because that's what humans are, but aren't all characteristics that define humans make humans what they are? All identifying traits would be just like the unique genetic code in that they are a built-in characteristic of homo sapiens that separates it from all other organisms. Saying our unique genetic code is what separates us isn't saying X = X, because the genetic code is simply the blueprints and in the end a small part of humanity, yet it is the human genes which separate humans from other organisms.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineTiCal
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: trendal]
    #4245244 - 06/01/05 07:37 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

A mammal with a conscience.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: what makes us human? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4245250 - 06/01/05 07:38 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
What I am looking for is a logical definition, and am expecting posters to follow rules of defining.



Ok, can you give us a logical definition of a chimpanzee?




No because I know very little about them. It would take a wast amount of biological knowledge to define a chimp


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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