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OfflineTraveller
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Registered: 04/13/01
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Brave New World - geneticaly engineering humans
    #975746 - 10/20/02 12:22 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

"The power to change the shape and destiny of the human species - to design babies to order - will be within the grasp of genetic scientists in just a couple of decades, the BBC's science programme Horizon predicts."

read this news article

designer babies!

or do a google search on genetic engineering of human babies or something, and you'll find a lot of stuff to read about what's going to be happening in the very near future. this is real shit, the future of the human race...what do you think?


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Anonymous

Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering humans [Re: Traveller]
    #975772 - 10/20/02 12:38 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

The last place anyone should go to learn about science is any news service or newspaper.  It is likely that my paper boy has more accurate information.

Much ado about nothing.

Thanks for the tip though. :smile:

I ran across an old article in the newspaper a few months ago that dated from the 70's that had scientists predicting that the world would be entering a new ice age.  Gosh, they didn't 'know' about global warming then, did they?

When science and Gov'ts get together we all had better run for cover!

Cheers, 


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
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Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering humans [Re: ]
    #976066 - 10/20/02 03:23 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Global warming is the impetus to an ice age.


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Anonymous

Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering humans [Re: Traveller]
    #976081 - 10/20/02 03:28 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Yuo can pick the sex of your baby now. No shit, some place in Florida does it for you. They just take the fun out of everything these days.


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OfflineEarth_Droid
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Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering humans [Re: ]
    #976116 - 10/20/02 03:42 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

The first picture of the babies on the article would make anyone scared of genetic engineering. I am sure when they start making babies that way, they won't make the babies look like they came out of a horror movie.


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Invisiblexganon
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Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 109
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Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering humans [Re: Traveller]
    #976455 - 10/20/02 09:14 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

As soon as the technology is ready, genetic engineering must be made mandatory by fascist means for the good of not only the human race in it's entirety, but also each of it's individual members. Stupidity is a genetic disease, like hemophilia. The bulk of this species has proven incapable of making it's own decisions. They appear to be breeding more than those who are capable. Allowing inferior DNA to prevent people from reaching their fullest potential as human organisms must cease. If the government really was aimed towards the collective good of all, it would be spending the bulk of it's income on technology? Ever play Civilization (or any game of that nature)? Doesn't the culture who climbs the tech-tree the fastest win (along with all of it's members, which becomes all humanity)? Why should we allow anyone to be born into a inferior body?


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InvisibleTinMan
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Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering humans [Re: xganon]
    #976457 - 10/20/02 09:22 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

We shall become obsolete when this happens. There will be no flaws in humans anymore... we could cause the extinction of the human race if people decide the like girls more than boys or vice versa, since you can't really have a kid with two women or two men. But, when this happens, artificial conception will be possible. We shouldn't mess with evolution (or God, for those of you that believe that science can't do this...) or were gonna regret it. Picture a world where the gov't kills off any baby born with bad eyesight or freckles. Any baby with any kind of neurological disease or AIDS. We shouldn't be messing with evoultion...


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering human [Re: xganon]
    #976462 - 10/20/02 09:26 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Allowing inferior DNA to prevent people from reaching their fullest potential as human organisms must cease.

Wow... this sounds a lot like the third ryche.

Stupidity is a genetic disease

I would much rather be stupid than cruel.

Doesn't the culture who climbs the tech-tree the fastest win

No. The best score I ever got was done by using only chariots to take over the world in just a few years from the start of the game. The game is just that, a game, and shouldn't be used to infer the complex mechanics of 'reality'.

Why should we allow anyone to be born into a inferior body?

Who am I to judge? Albert Einstein didn't speak until he was five years old... obviously a "stupid" child. He flunked out of school... obviously a "stupid" child.



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OfflineMushIsMyTool
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Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering humans [Re: Traveller]
    #976934 - 10/20/02 02:03 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Our differences are what make us human. If we take those away we will become just like the machines we have created. There will be specific lines created to do specific tasks. Like automobiles, we will be organized into classes that best suit the current needs of the race at that time. I imagine if this genetic engineering becomes the way of life, we will become more of a colony type species. Like ants or bees. But who is to say if that would be right or wrong. Maybe the contiuation of the species will depend on something like that. Nature selects for the best way to do things at all times. So whatever comes to be will be the right way. Sorry if I am rambeling. Just something to think about.


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering humans [Re: MushIsMyTool]
    #977186 - 10/20/02 03:43 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Nature selects for the best way to do things at all times. So whatever comes to be will be the right way

not necessarily, many thousands of species have become extince over the millions of years life has been on earth. if you were one of those species, would you think nature made the right choice?



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Invisiblexganon
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Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 109
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Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering human [Re: Seuss]
    #977200 - 10/20/02 03:55 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

>> Allowing inferior DNA to prevent people from reaching their fullest
>> potential as human organisms must cease.

> Wow... this sounds a lot like the third ryche.

Godwin's Law on the second post? Unfair.

You speak of killing people if their lives aren't 'good enough'. My scheme uses technology to make everyone's lives far better than 'good enough'. It's about improving lives, not ending them.

>> Stupidity is a genetic disease
> I would much rather be stupid than cruel.

How is improving everybody's intelligence cruel? Not improving the collective intelligence of the human race when the means are available (and even banning others from doing so) would be cruel. If we could cure AIDS and instead we threw anyone who researched the cure in jail for 'ethical problems', wouldn't we be cruel? If we weren't all stupid, we would have cured AIDS by now.
Doesn't the culture who climbs the tech-tree the fastest win

> No. The best score I ever got was done by using only chariots to take over
> the world in just a few years from the start of the game. The game is just
> that, a game, and shouldn't be used to infer the complex mechanics
> of 'reality'.

The way technological advancement makes problems 'obsolete' in the game parallels my own observations of reality. I was using the game to illustrate my views, rather than as a foundation of them.

>> Why should we allow anyone to be born into a inferior body?

> Who am I to judge? Albert Einstein didn't speak until he was five years
> old... obviously a "stupid" child. He flunked out of school... obviously
> a "stupid" child.

According to my German teacher, Germany and Austria (or some other country) had 1-6 grading scales, but in reverse order (6 is a A in one country and a F in another). He says Albert got transferred between these two schools and some historians got confused somehow. We would all have the genetic base from which to achieve and surpass Einstein's intellect if we did not have deficient genomes.

And, if we could have made Einstein immortal and let him go to school 10 hours a week like everyone else, eating Doritos out of replicators and insufflating nano-cannabinoids which change shape depending on which part of the brain they are in?


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Invisiblexganon
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Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 109
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Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering humans [Re: TinMan]
    #977215 - 10/20/02 04:03 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

> We shall become obsolete when this happens

We'll become obsolete corpses anyways.

> There will be no flaws in humans anymore...

And this is a bad thing?

> we could cause the extinction of the human race if people decide the like
> girls more than boys or vice versa,

Or we can simply grow babies in artificial wombs. You underestimate just how cool flipping all the 'intelligence' bits to 1 in everyone's heads would be.

> since you can't really have a kid with two women or two men.

Map out their DNA and have a computer interpolate the strings together, and 400 guys could have a baby.

> But, when this happens, artificial conception will be possible.

Exactly.

> We shouldn't mess with evolution (or God, for those of you that believe that
> science can't do this...) or were gonna regret it.

Why's that? Evolution does not care about us. It cares about our DNA. I don't care about my DNA very much.

> Picture a world where the gov't kills off any baby born with bad eyesight or
> freckles. Any baby with any kind of neurological disease or AIDS.

But there's no killing being done. We would get the end result of the above scenerio (which in the long run would be very good for all) without killing anybody. I may just be on a dex afterglow, but people seem to be calling me a baby-stabbing Hitler. When did I say we were going to be killing babies? Have I mentioned the subject of baby-stabbing a single time in the past?

> We shouldn't be messing with evoultion...

What'll it do, call the Karma Police on us?


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OfflineMetasyn
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Registered: 09/02/02
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Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering human [Re: xganon]
    #977222 - 10/20/02 04:04 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with you xganon. Genetic engineering isn't about heartlessly killing off society's weak members, its about making sure new births have everything they can to achieve their potential. These human bodies are a pretty shitty way to house our consciousness. They always have these little flaws that cause them to keep breaking down and not working properly. If we could be given, at birth, all the best organic machinery we can create, there is no telling what we could do or where our imagination could take us.


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OfflineTraveller
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Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering human [Re: Metasyn]
    #977750 - 10/20/02 08:47 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

one of the big problems is that, like any new technology, this stuff will be expensive. too expensive for your average indian peasant or stereotypical starving african.

if there are genes responsible for stupidity and aggression then couldn't we move on to a more peaceful, wiser future through genetic engineering?

recently i've been to some festivals, music and camping and stuff, near a nuclear power plant which is apparently built on a major fault line and destined for disaster in the near future. many people were talking about how "we don't need nuclear power" or even "this is power that humans are not supposed to use" etc. as with this genetic engineering business, people are scared by new technology they don't understand....and scared by the very real dangers this new technology (which not even the government or the people researching fully understand either) poses.

but we can't now forget the secrets of nuclear fission and fusion and we would be foolish to stop studying, dismantle all our power plants and somehow return to the good-old-days...and similarly we can't hide from the recent developements in our understanding of genetics. the potential benefits of both nuclear power and genetic engineering are so immense that it would be naive to think that this knowledge would be left unused....


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Invisiblexganon
polydrug abuser
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 109
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Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering human [Re: Traveller]
    #977881 - 10/20/02 09:44 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

> one of the big problems is that, like any new technology, this stuff will be
> expensive. too expensive for your average indian peasant or stereotypical
> starving african.

You mean like antibiotics?

We would have every reason to subsidize this technology in developing nations. What would be better for a economy than Supermen?

> but we can't now forget the secrets of nuclear fission and fusion and we
> would be foolish to stop studying, dismantle all our power plants and somehow
> return to the good-old-days...

Coal?


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OfflineTraveller
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Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering human [Re: xganon]
    #978154 - 10/20/02 11:06 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

We would have every reason to subsidize this technology in developing nations. What would be better for a economy than Supermen?

are you kidding? do you really think we want THEM to be as smart as US?

i wonder if there's an honesty gene? or a greed gene...


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Offlinejayson
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Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering humans [Re: xganon]
    #978377 - 10/21/02 12:44 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

It sounds good everyone being born perfect. But if we are all the same there is no biodiversity. Survival of a species depends on biodiversity.

  :cool:  "You don't know what you've got till its gone."  :cool: 


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OfflineMushIsMyTool
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Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering humans [Re: chodamunky]
    #979350 - 10/21/02 10:14 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

not necessarily, many thousands of species have become extince over the millions of years life has been on earth. if you were one of those species, would you think nature made the right choice? e?

yes. In fact I presently think my species is not fit and should go extinct but I realize that I don't have to foresight to make that kind of judgment.


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OfflineCosmic_Monkey
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Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering humans [Re: jayson]
    #979365 - 10/21/02 10:24 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Who decides which traits we keep? That thought alone scares me..
Will they perfect us the in the same way plastic surgons have perfected Micheal Jacksons face?


Edited by Cosmic_Monkey (10/21/02 11:30 AM)


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OfflineMetasyn
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Re: Brave New World - geneticaly engineering humans [Re: Cosmic_Monkey]
    #979606 - 10/21/02 12:46 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I'm thinking more along the lines of correcting flaws rather than engineering perfection. Fixing things like congenital deficits, chronic heart problems, cancer susceptibility, etc. I think there would be few people that would object to a future generation that didn't have to worry about cancer.


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