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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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The Philosophy of Waste
    #4232775 - 05/29/05 10:32 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Those of us in the good old U.S.A. (and probably most other places in the world) have learned to be wasteful consumers. Some throw out aluminum cans they paid 5 cents deposit on rather than save them up and get their money back. We fill our 60 gallon trash roll carts every week with huge amounts of packaging, junk mail, newspapers, food gone bad, etc. etc.

Flashback to World War II. The government made a huge point of getting people to ration, to save string, to pinch pennies. And why? Because back then people had the philosophy of saving. So, they naturally rallied around the rationing effort. They honestly scrimped and saved and helped out with the team effort.

Fast forward to Iraq and today. The government knows better than to talk about rationing or saving as a way to motivate people today. They know as long as people can afford to spend $ 2.30 on a gallon of gas to fill their SUV and commute 50 miles each way to work, the people are "happy". Team effort? Sure, the Neocon team vs. the Liberal team vs. all the minority league teams. And every team wants things their way, and no one is willing to compromise or sacrifice.

The philosophy of waste and consumerism and materialism is after all a selfish lazy philosophy. But, it sells a lot of product. Cheap product from China. We had better start embracing Chinese philosophies because these people OWN us...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Philosophy of Waste [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4232830 - 05/29/05 11:07 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe true.

I myself don't relish consuming mindlessly. Because of this trait I have more than enough of everything. Especially money. I work 3 to 4 days per week, yet still could pay cash for my home, in a very expensive town. How did I save all that. I just didn't spend it on junk. For me I like a tight life. I like to think about what I am doing and why.

It's a very different mind set today as you pointed out. To each his own. Very few ask themselves why they do the things they do, especially as to how they participate in the culture. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: The Philosophy of Waste [Re: Icelander]
    #4232850 - 05/29/05 11:17 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

As I recall, we are both about the same age. I think that has a little to do with our saving mentality vs. younger people. Our parents were depression era so they had to save and taught us to save.

However, our parents had more so we had more so we spent more. And the hits keep on a coming.

I have always been a saver. I have stuff that probably should have been tossed and is a pain to move, but you just never know when you are going to need something.

I like the fact that you have the money to pay cash for the expensive house but don't waste it (I presume) on expensive cars, for example.

"As to how they participate in the culture"

Most mindlessly consume the electronics and video and buy cars and houses they really can't afford and keep making those payments. Most people can't afford the deposit for their next rental. I don't know what they do in a real emergency other than go deeper in debt or mooch off of mom.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Philosophy of Waste [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4232878 - 05/29/05 11:26 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

You're right. I drive a 1988 volvo. Cost me four grand about 7 years ago. I am not a wasteful driver either. In fact I hardly ever drive in town. I bike or walk. The benefits are threefold. Health, contemplation and scenery, saving on expensive gas. This is what I call tight living. I get the most bang for my buck, know what is real value, and never deprive myself of things I really want. And best of all I don't spend my whole life at work. Especially paying off needless debt, so some fat cat can walk all over me. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: The Philosophy of Waste [Re: Icelander]
    #4239171 - 05/31/05 09:43 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I find it interesting how in "1984" Orwell talks about how the whole point of the global war effort wasn't actually to win or lose, but instead to waste surplus. This kept productivity high and people poor. They worked hard for their gov't.

To me this is an exact parallel to consumerism in post-modern nations, especially America. The more we consume the higher our economy soars. Products are designed to fall apart and break because otherwise you would never go buy another one.

You know how they say "they don't make them like they used to"? Well this saying came about because during the 40's and 50's you could buy a vacuum or a car and it would last you for years and years. But the companies realized that they couldn't make a profit by selling stuff that lasts forever, and thanks to the miracle of plastic, cheap products were able to be produced and sold over and over again for maximum profits. I think they call it "engineered impermanence" or something like that.


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OfflineDoom
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Re: The Philosophy of Waste [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4239173 - 05/31/05 09:46 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Those of us in the good old U.S.A. (and probably most other places in the world) have learned to be wasteful consumers. Some throw out aluminum cans they paid 5 cents deposit on rather than save them up and get their money back. We fill our 60 gallon trash roll carts every week with huge amounts of packaging, junk mail, newspapers, food gone bad, etc. etc.

Flashback to World War II. The government made a huge point of getting people to ration, to save string, to pinch pennies. And why? Because back then people had the philosophy of saving. So, they naturally rallied around the rationing effort. They honestly scrimped and saved and helped out with the team effort.

Fast forward to Iraq and today. The government knows better than to talk about rationing or saving as a way to motivate people today. They know as long as people can afford to spend $ 2.30 on a gallon of gas to fill their SUV and commute 50 miles each way to work, the people are "happy". Team effort? Sure, the Neocon team vs. the Liberal team vs. all the minority league teams. And every team wants things their way, and no one is willing to compromise or sacrifice.

The philosophy of waste and consumerism and materialism is after all a selfish lazy philosophy. But, it sells a lot of product. Cheap product from China. We had better start embracing Chinese philosophies because these people OWN us...




what about islam and hinduism>? not everything is produced in China.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: The Philosophy of Waste [Re: Doom]
    #4239189 - 05/31/05 09:58 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

gotta wonder how many senators, advertisers, corporations took to the concepts laid out in Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" about hypnopaedic verses and such.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: The Philosophy of Waste [Re: dr0mni]
    #4239224 - 05/31/05 10:15 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

"engineered impermenance or something like that"

Planned obsolescence?

"The whole point of the global war effort wasn't to win or lose, but to instead to waste surplus"

Agreed "win or lose" isn't the point, the point is to make some people rich whild other's suffer. That, and in the case of Iraq, to establish a permanant U.S. military presence in the middle east.

As to philosophy, I think it's sad that most people buy into the consumerism thing so fully. The buy now pay later mentality keeps people "poor" as to their savings and financial independence.

The consumerism philosophy means more dependency on others. Consumers only buy, use, and in most cases throw away. They do not know how to produce or fix most of what they buy.

In the "old days" (or parts of the world not as affected by consumerism), people had the philosophy of self sufficiency. They grew their own food, dug their own well, built their own house, etc.
Government assistance was frowned upon, debtors were put in real prisons appropriately called "debtor's prisons".

Companies and governments prefer consumers in debt who will keep working like slaves to pay off those bills and keep paying taxes. I think the plan is that once Social Security is taken away, and companies have no pension plans left, only 401K plans, that no one will ever be able afford to retire...


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: The Philosophy of Waste [Re: Doom]
    #4239230 - 05/31/05 10:18 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

"What about islam and hinduism? Not everything is produced in China."

Sure, oil and opium are of interest to the U.S. government and the people that consume it.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: The Philosophy of Waste [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4239241 - 05/31/05 10:22 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

when social security was first established the average life expectancy was something like 5 years below the age at which you can procure Social Security. It was a great tool for taxation without representation and the idea would have kept perpetuating a lot of money if that damn life expectancy didnt increase....


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Invisibleorechron
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Re: The Philosophy of Waste [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4239283 - 05/31/05 10:38 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Indonesia is a Muslim country, the largest at that...just a heads up.


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: The Philosophy of Waste [Re: orechron]
    #4239314 - 05/31/05 10:53 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Interesting thread


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: The Philosophy of Waste [Re: orechron]
    #4239377 - 05/31/05 11:20 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

My impression is that in terms of consumerism, and providing goods to the U.S., that for islamic countries, oil and opium poppies come to mind. The U.S. imports and burns huge quantities of oil from at least some of these countries.

Wasn't it interesting that opium production in Afghanastan increased 300-400% AFTER the U.S. invasion? I always wonder where all that drug money profit really goes...


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OfflineDoom
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Re: The Philosophy of Waste [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4239394 - 05/31/05 11:25 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
gotta wonder how many senators, advertisers, corporations took to the concepts laid out in Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" about hypnopaedic verses and such.




let me guess.....ZERO?


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: The Philosophy of Waste [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4239463 - 05/31/05 12:01 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

"if that damn life expectancy didnt increase"

That combined with the baby boomer generation getting closer to retirement and then living longer means social security revenues keep falling off as the benefits keep increasing.

So, what does the government propose? Putting even LESS into the system with revenues via private accounts for the younger workers. At the same time, increase the retirement age required for social security to kick in, and reduce the amount of benefit increases relative to inflation.

All of these changes are designed to keep as many baby boomers working into their 70s and 80s before they can think of full retirement.

The younger workers either don't do the private account (probably half won't) which the government is counting on. The other half will contribute to private accounts in the stock market that big money tied into government is glad to see people lose when the stock market bubbles burst like happened in 2000 and many people lost the bulk of their retirement funds. Note the massive corporate fraud that led to that collapse, yet very little enforcment by the SEC to this day.

The philosophy of the government is that they love it when people lose their savings or don't have a retirement. That keeps the people working, and paying taxes, and being able to keep consuming that expensive oil and cheap electronics...


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: The Philosophy of Waste [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4241688 - 05/31/05 10:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Planned obsolescence! That's it!

I've always been aware of the problems with consumerism, but only recently am I motivated to change my own habits. I've begun saving up junkmail and cardboard packaging to be recycled. Of course I have to haul the shit down to the recycling dumpsters instead of having such options easily available.

I don't drive a car and don't plan on getting one while I'm in college (at least another three years). I hate traffic, I hate insurance, I hate complaining about gas prices yet still buying it because I have no choice. I DO have a choice, it's called a bicycle, and it can take me anywhere I need to go around campus. I buy most of my food at Sams Club for dirt cheap. One shopping trip will stock me up for over a month!

I prefer to cook my meals instead of microwaving them, and I try to make meat a side and not the main dish.

I try a lot of things, but I'm still trapped for now. Once I finish my education I will go on to chase my dream, whatever it may be at the time...


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Amazon Shop for: Aldous Huxley

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