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Need Advice on 5 4oz jars
    #415726 -

First of all, this being my first post, let me give a HUGE thanks to all of those on this board for their wealth of helpful information that has led my hippo to a somewhat(to this point) successful first grow attempt. My hippo wouldn't have even dreamed of growing mushies if it wasn't for this place.

Onto my hippos delima..... Instead of 1/2 pint jars he bought 4 oz jars by accident. He lost 2 to contams and 5 to impatience (TIP to Newbies: Make sure jars are completly cool before innoculation). He innoculated Sept 10 and its looking like the the jars will finish sometime later this week. He is a fairly intelligent hippo so should he try to case them or would one advise otherwise?

My Hippo just bought a pressure cooker, filter disks, and some more spore syrngies and some pint jars. He is thinking of trying somethin other then BRF, any suggestions.

It's funny looking back on the first day he came to this site.. substrate?, casing?, BRF?, TEK????

You guys (and gals) have a great one.


A wolf can not lead a flock of sheep, he must become a sheep if they are to follow.


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A wolf can not lead a flock of sheep, he must become a sheep if they are to follow.

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Re: Need Advice on 5 4oz jars [Re: Panic]
    #415790 -

I like 4oz jars. They colonize extra fast. I'm sure they wouldn't make for any spectacular results done PF style. This is due to the size of course. Case them fer sher! Find a container that fits four whole cakes fairly well. Crumble the fifth and fill the gaps. I would reccommend 50/50+ for you. A small aluminum loaf pan should work nicely.....Like ones you would make a small loaf of bread in. I like to make casings just like this. Look back at two of my Posts in mushroom pics, one is "B+ first work" and the other is "Crazy little thais". Look down the thread a little in "Crazy..." You will see that both of those are in little aluminum loaf pans...each used 5, 4oz jars cased.

For a small batch of 50/50+ :

1.5 cups peat
1.5 cups verm
0.5 cup crushed oyster shell
0.25 cup lime
1.5 cups spring water

Mix the drys first then add the water.
Lime is sold at any garden shop. Crushed oyster shell is sold as bird grit at pet stores....both are real cheap.

Looking for new substrates for your jars? Good man...
A good quality birdseed for finches and/or canaries is easy to work with a cheap to aquire. Try to get one without sunflower seeds and pre-pressed pellets in it. Read the back for the ingrediants. All these are good: Any kind of millet (red, siberian etc.), canary grass seed, milo, thistle, oat groat etc.. Perhaps start be incorporating grain with your rice jars like: Equal thirds Rye,BRF and Verm. This will ease you into using grains. It is not scary at all! Since you have a pressure cooker there should be no trouble. Soak your grains overnight before steeping to allow endospores to germinate. Cased grain jars seem to give more potency to me vs. rice alone.

For Premium prints and cultivation info check out www.thehawkseye.com

Edited by TrippinRhino on 10/06/01 11:17 PM.



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All rhinos are endangered species...save the rhinos

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Re: Need Advice on 5 4oz jars [Re: TrippinRhino]
    #416967 -

Panic, I actually looked back at those thread myself and found that those casing were made with 6, 4oz jars not 5. Sorry for the misinformation. You really gotta cram to get 6 jars in those little loaf pans. 5 works fine.

If you are interested in extending your current cakes to more substrate, you might consider making some shakable rye jars. Use a about half on one of the 4oz cakes to make 4-6 half pint shakables. Case the remaining 4 and 1/2 jars. The half that you break off will be gently crumbled very small and evenly distributed between the shakables. When they colonize, you can case the rye with 50/50+. This will allow you to get expirience with grain as well as you another 1-2 small casings out of the original 5 sucessful cakes.

If you need instructions on making some shakables ....ask

For Premium prints and cultivation info check out www.thehawkseye.com a supporter of the free spore ring...


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All rhinos are endangered species...save the rhinos

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Re: Need Advice on 5 4oz jars [Re: Panic]
    #416985 -

my neighbor's cat, Puss-de eta't, has noted that it is indeed possible to birth cakes and simply stack them on atop the other especially if they are small.


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Re: Need Advice on 5 4oz jars [Re: TrippinRhino]
    #417320 -

TrippinRhino - You have given some great advice man. My hippo was getting down about those 4oz jars, but they sound more then salvageable. If they look half as good as your B+'s he will be a happy hippo. (He's actually growing B+'s too) He went out today and got all the stuff needed for the 50/50+ and made a batch according to your directions. He didn't have acces to any bags so he threw it in 3 pint jars and pc'd for 40 min at 15 psi. I assume it is OK to steralize casing in jars?? He is going to let them sit overnight and case tommorow.

As far as the shakable jars is concered he is intriged, but is unfamiliar with this process. He also just discoverd a 6th cake that just germinated in the past couple of days(that means it took over 20 days to germinate!) He thinks he could try the shakable rye idea with that cake, but that he needs all 5 4oz cakes to completly cover the pan (??). He is a really information hungry hungry hippo so he would love to learn the shakable jar TEK. He would also like to know what your terrarium set-up is like. BTW.. nice to see a fellow chemist around.

Tchyted- Thanks for the info, but he's gonna try his luck with casing

A wolf can not lead a flock of sheep, he must become a sheep if they are to follow.


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A wolf can not lead a flock of sheep, he must become a sheep if they are to follow.

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Re: Need Advice on 5 4oz jars [Re: Panic]
    #417457 -

Sterilizing your 50/50+: Yes, the jars will be fine. A small pyrex bowl covered with foil works just fine. It is a good idea to dump the jars into a bowl and mix them up before using the casing. This will allow any lime that has been washed to the bottom through condensation to be mixed back into the casing.

Making the casing: Be sure to work extra clean and take your time, while moving quickly. Think about the process and how you will prepare your casing before you get started. Gather all the items you will need and sterilize them before getting started. It is a good idea to have an empty bowl or a tray (a cookie sheet works well) of some kind next to your work. This will give you a place to set the jars as you empty them. Additionally, you can place any trash generated in that vessel so you don't make a mess of your work space. Spray the "waste" bowl or tray down with Lysol. If it is your first time making a casing I would suggest cleaning your work area and supplies well with Lysol. Then, take a paper towel wet with rubbing alcohol and wipe any surfaces that will come into contact with your casing or substrate such as the inside of the bowl you will mix your 50/50+. This will remove the Lysol residue. Get a fresh alcohol towel and keep it waded up beside your work (to discourage evaporation). Wipe down every jar with the alcohol and loosen all the lids to your jars to the point of removal and just let them sit on top. Dump the jars of casing into the bowl. Wipe your hands with the alcohol towel and mix up the casing just prior to placing the bottom casing layer in the casing tray. Keeping one hand clean and using the other to do all the mixing might be helpful. Place a nice even layer of the casing material on the bottom of the loaf pan, 'bout 3/4". Use the clean hand to lift the lids off of the jars and dump the cakes one at a time into your hand. Do this over the "waste" tray so the the dry verm layer does not go everywhere. Place the cakes into the pan verm down in a tight fit. If they don't touch the sides of the pan that is no big deal. Try to get a nice tight grouping with the first 4 cakes. Take the fifth and start at one edge breaking small pieces off and gently stuffing them in the gaps between the cakes. The fit does not have to be air tight or anything. Place the leftovers from the 5th cake at either end of the 4 cake mass. Start the top layer of casing by "sprinkling" until you have filled in the gaps around the sides if any and covered the tops of the cakes with 1/2 to 3/4 "or so. You deffinately do not want to see any white peeking through. Cover the loaf pan tightly with foil and keep in a warmish area. 70-80 degrees. 80 would be better. after a few days uncover the casing and patch any early spots of mycelium poking through with just a little 50/50+ that has been stored in one of your pint jars. Cover it back up and at the end of a week to 10 days, the mycelium should be poppin' through all over. Time for light...Any small terrarium will do.

When it doubt, wipe your hand again with an alcohol towel. The alcohol should evaporate off of your hand quick, so don't touch any of your cake with wet alcohol hands. Give it just a second or two to evaporate. This may be a little excessive, but when learning to make a casing you cannot discount the importance of being clean. You may find that some of this is not as necessary in the future.

As far as the shakable jars, there is nothing to them really. Do you have any rye?

For Premium prints and cultivation info check out www.thehawkseye.com

Edited by TrippinRhino on 10/08/01 02:39 AM.



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All rhinos are endangered species...save the rhinos

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Re: Need Advice on 5 4oz jars [Re: TrippinRhino]
    #418136 -

Tripping Rhino - This post should be make into a beginers casing TEK! I think you have just about covered all the bases, but I still have a couple of questions.

Would it be excessive to heat the foil that will be put on top of the cased cakes or would it be enough to just wipe it down with alcohol?

From what I can tell the cased cakes will be ready to birth about a week after being cased or when the mycellium starts to poke up through the casing, correct?

Also, I know that cakes need around 95-100% Rh and cased cakes need 85-92%. Would an inverted tupperware container with the cased cakes and a sperate container w/ perilite be too much or would misting a few times a day provide enough humidity?

I have already obtained some finch seed and am going to get some dark rye flour today. I plan on using your idea about the 1/3 verm, 1/3 brf. 1/3 rye or finch seed. Is their anything special about the rye or finch seed? From what I can tell it is helpful to soak the grains a day before sterilization so they are easier to steralize. Anything else special?

Sorry for all the questions, but I want to have all of the bases covered when I get down to business.

Panic

A wolf can not lead a flock of sheep, he must become a sheep if they are to follow.


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A wolf can not lead a flock of sheep, he must become a sheep if they are to follow.

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Re: Need Advice on 5 4oz jars [Re: Panic]
    #418351 -

Heating the foil would be unnessary in my opinion. Get 91% alcohol from the drug store and use that liberally. Be sure it has evaporated before letting it come into contact with your casing.

<From what I can tell the cased cakes will be ready to birth about a week after being cased or when the mycellium starts to poke up through the casing, correct?>

Birth (a PF term) refers to dumping your cake out of the jar. You will do that when you make the casing. I believe you are referring to initiation of the fruiting cycle. This is done when you see white popping through in a bout 30-50 % of the casing layer.

The inverted tupperware would proably work fine. I might suggest getting a smallish sterlite container. One with a clear bottom and a white lid. Look for the one that is about 10" x 15" and about 12" tall (roughly I forget the exact demensions). Turn it upside down. The lid should be about 2" deep. Place 1-1.5 inches of wet perlite in the bottom. Wet it with a 1:3 perxide:water mix. In the clear bottom, which now has become the top, cut 4 small holes 1/8" square in each of the 2 long sides near the ends (two along the top and two along the bottom). This will allow for some air exchange and help keep the humidity under 100%.

Place your little loaf in there when it is ready and keep under light. Although only a few hours a day are necessary,24 hour light really won't hurt anything. You should see some sweating on the walls of the container. If you do not, add some moisture to your perlite. Fanning should not be necessary (but wont hurt) until you see pinning since you have a little air exchange already. Mist the casing if it looks to be drying out. Mist only very lightly at any one time and allow the casing to soak up the water before giving it another dousing. This will reduce matting of your mycelium. Cease misting after pins form and begin fanning a few times a day. Just lift the lid up and give it a few seconds of wafting with a pice of cardboard or a folder or something.



For Premium prints and cultivation info check out www.thehawkseye.com


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All rhinos are endangered species...save the rhinos

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Re: Need Advice on 5 4oz jars [Re: TrippinRhino]
    #418519 -

TrippinRhino - Again, thanks again for the info. You have some of the most informative posts I've seen on these boards. My Rhino is going to case the jars within the hour. Look for the tile of my next post to be "Incredibly successful first grow" (keeping my fingers crossed)

Panic

A wolf can not lead a flock of sheep, he must become a sheep if they are to follow.


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A wolf can not lead a flock of sheep, he must become a sheep if they are to follow.

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Re: Need Advice on 5 4oz jars [Re: Panic]
    #418534 -

When you get ready to prepare your grain substrate, PM me I'll see if I can help.

Soaking the grain is not 100% necessary but will help for 2 reasons: 1.The grain will absorb water more evenly and will resist popping as it can when hydrated too fast. 2. Water penetrating into the grain will germinate endospores and then they will be killed when PCed. Endospores not germinated MAY live through pressure cooking and not show up for several days after PCing. It has happened to me and many others. I would recommend soaking rye for 24-30 hours. Birdseed needs less soaking. In fact you can just go ahead and steep it for 20 minutes, make your substrate and then let the jars sit overnight before PCing to get the same killing effect.

For Premium prints and cultivation info check out www.thehawkseye.com

Edited by TrippinRhino on 10/08/01 06:23 PM.



--------------------
All rhinos are endangered species...save the rhinos

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Re: Need Advice on 5 4oz jars [Re: TrippinRhino]
    #419005 -

Well.. as could be expected with a first grow a few issues came up. All of the steralization procedures were followed with the addition of rubber gloves. (Hey if you are gonna do it right might as well do it right.) However, it turns out the pan was a bit too big for the cakes so heres what went down.

My hippo put the 3/4in casing layer down, then took the cakes out. It turns out that the cakes didn't colonize the top 20% because it seems they got too dry so he scraped of the uncolonized part and realized after putting the 1st cake in the pan that the pan was too big so he ended up crubling the cakes and spreding and semi-even 1/2 in layer on top of the bottom casing.

However, when he went to cover the crumbled cakes he realzied that he only had enough casing left to cover half of the pan so he spread the remaing casing over the cakes (there wasn't enough to cover all of the mycellium), covered the pan and made another batch of casing to finish the job off tommorow. I figure if it doesn't work.. no biggie. Theres more syringes and filter disks on the way, but it would be great to get some mushies from this first grow.

A wolf can not lead a flock of sheep, he must become a sheep if they are to follow.


--------------------
A wolf can not lead a flock of sheep, he must become a sheep if they are to follow.

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Re: Need Advice on 5 4oz jars [Re: Panic]
    #419321 -

i just harvested my first flush ever and i too purchased 4 oz jars instead of 1/2 pint jars. my clonization still took about 4 weeks. i cased two of my cakes in straight verm and i must say i was more impressed with the production the casing put out! i don't think the size matters

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds."

Bob Marley



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"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds."

Bob Marley

Remember, EGOISM is the beginning, the source, and the root of EVIL!

http://www.fanaticus.com/pf-tek.htm
http://www.mycotopia.net/teks/hongus.html

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Re: Need Advice on 5 4oz jars [Re: Panic]
    #419654 -

A half inch is pretty thin but still should yield some fruits. I would have though that batch of casing should have been enough for you. Perhaps you bought bigger pans that I use but no big deal. Make a fresh batch of casing and finish. Start with about a half inch layer. Wait a few days and patch the early spots of mycelium growth. You will need to save a few oz of casing in a clean jar to do this. The mycellium will likely suck up water from the casing if it is as dry as you say. Plan to give it some misting after you patch. It still should need a week before going under light. This will allow time for the crubbled cakes to fuse.

For Premium prints and cultivation info check out www.thehawkseye.com


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All rhinos are endangered species...save the rhinos

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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