|
 Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
 TrippinRhino
addict
Registered: 03/23/01
Posts: 342
Loc: TX
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
|
 Do you want to make rye shakables? 
#421116 - 10/10/01 05:44 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I have seen many newbies lately asking about making shakable grain jars. I am certainly no expert but I hope that I can share my experience with the process so that it can be more clearly understood. My hope is that some of the more experienced members here can share their input to help out those new to the use of grain. While it has helped many-a-newbie get fruits, I believe that the departure from the PF tek will broaden your horizons in cultivation. If your sole purpose is to get some fruits you will benefit only a little from this but if you enjoy cultivation as a hobby, YOU will benefit the most by learning new methods. For the hobbyist, I?m sure that the same tek gets boring when repeated ad-nausea. Grain culture seems like the next likely step forward from rice cakes. It should not be feared! With a little experience it can become just as easy as making a rice cake.
The successful making shakable grain jars requires achieving two obstacles: 1.Obtaining the proper moisture content. -And- 2. Avoiding contamination. At the end of the day, these obstacles can be overcome with ease. Many different people have different methods of making shakable jars. Rye is the preferred grain for use in the cultivation of mushrooms. Dozens of species of edible, medicinal and of course psychoactive mushrooms are spawned with rye. It can be obtained at feed stores, health food stores and of course online at mycology supply vendors. Other grains can be substituted with ease. Wheat berries, oat groats, millet, and milo are all suitable grains. The larger grains seem to resist clumping a little better than smaller grains. People?s opinion on the moisture content will vary. The intended final use of the grain spawn will help to determine the requirements for moisture content. If it is going to be cased and used as the final substrate, it helps for the moisture content to be higher to provide the moisture necessary for the development of fruit bodies. If it is to be used as spawn in straw, compost, sawdust and the like, the moisture content need not be so high because the mycelium will draw it?s final moisture from the bulk substrate.
Now that I have rambled through all that, lets get down to making the jars. REMEMBER: This is how I recommend doing it the first time. There are a more steps than necessary to get the same results but I think this will greatly increase the chances of success. Experience will likely see the omission of some of these steps. The following will outline making 6 half-pint rye shakable jars. If you want to make more or less just follow the same ratios. Shakable jars need to have less volume so they can be shaken?hello. As a result, you want to end up with only enough volume to fill the jars about ? full?Some folks will recommend less. If you have some grain leftover, you can always fill another jar or just throw it away?.Grain is CHEAP. To reduce problems associated with moisture content, add some vermiculite to the final mixture to soak up any excess water. Figure your grain to water content at 1 to 1. Start with 2 cups of rye. Place the rye in a quart jar or in a tupperware that has a lid. Take 2 ? cups of bottled water and bring it to a light boil in the microwave. The additional ? cup is to combat evaporation. Pour the boiling water in with the rye and cover. If you are using a quart jar, place the sealing band upside down to prevent a vacuum forming as the mixture cools. The use of boiling water spots kills some of the surface bacteria and initiates the absorption of water. The rye is then allowed to soak for 24-30 hours in this water. This is where the addition of boiling water helps. It greatly reduces the initial bacterial concentration and discourages the formation of substances potentially toxic to the mycelium. At the end of the soaking time, strain the excess water (keeping the water) and place the rye into a mixing bowl. Put it 1 cup of dry vermiculite into the bowl and mix up the grain. If the grain feels dry, add water a tablespoon at a time until the rye/verm mixture feels moist to the hand. Keep in mind that the rye will absorb the additional surface water when it is pressure-cooked. Usually only a tablespoon or two is needed. Throw the little bit of excess water away.
The purpose of the soaking vs. steeping is two-fold. It allows time for endospores trapped within the grain to germinate and thus making them more vulnerable to the pressure cooking process and it allows the grain to absorb water evenly without popping.
Fill the jars. Place your clean jars in a row. It helps to get a small plastic funnel from the grocery store and cut off the bottom inch or so, such that the opening at the bottom of the funnel is just a little smaller that the opening to your jars. This way, you can hold the funnel with one hand and handle the rye with the other. You can move down the row quickly without spilling rye all over the place. Fill the jars about ? full. If you like you can fill more jars with less volume. If you are filling 6 half pints (I prefer the tall ones for this) you will have some left over. As I said before, either place the remainder into another jar or pitch it. DO NOT leave rye in your trashcan for days. It will breed contams that love grains?nobody needs any extra contams in their house.
Place the lids on the jars, with the sealing edge up just as you would when pressure cooking any other jars. Place foil over the lids etc? Pressure-cook the jars for 90 minutes at 12-15 p.s.i. If your pressure cooker only goes reaches 10 p.s.i., cook the jars for 2 hours. Allow the jars to cool and remove them in a clean draft free area. Tighten the lids immediately and shake the jars to mix up the kernels of rye. The jars can be stored in a covered container to further decrease the chances of airborne contams. As soon as the jars are completely cooled to room temperature they can and should be inoculated. You can use a syringe, a crumbled cake, or colonized agar wedges to inoculate the jars. If you are using a syringe, do the jars one at a time. Unscrew the band and lift the lid just a tine bit. With the needle of your syringe flamed, squirt 1-2 ml. of spore juice into the jar. Don?t worry about distribution, just do it quickly and immediately re-tighten the lid. If you are using a cake, break off a few (3-5) small pieces into your ultra-clean hand. Again lift the lid just enough to get the goodies in and promptly re-tighten. When all your jars are done, give them a vigorous shaking and place them into covered container such as a tupperware or pan covered with foil to discourage airborne contams. I would leave the lids tight until mycelium growth begins....loosen them after a few days. If using cakes to inoculate, shake the jars again after 3-4 days (you should have seen the mycelium recover by this time and fluff up again). The jars should be done in another 4-6 days if kept between 75-80 degrees. If using a syringe, wait until spore germination is very apparent (usually after 3-6 days) and give them a shake. The jars will colonize very fast by this method. One nice thing is that you can use one of your pre-colonized cakes to make several shakable jars and thus extending your work. When the jars are complete, you can case them in small aluminum pans. Two little loaf pans with three jars cased together (bout 1.25 inch deep) works well. I would recommend 50/50+ although other casings will work just fine.
I know this is kind of a lengthy process but hopefully, this has given the newbie a plan that will provide the aforementioned goals: Proper moisture content and no contams.
As an option, you can place ? teaspoon of gypsum in the initial water.
If you are looking for a much quicker process?.go to www.mushmush.nl and read their instructions for rye preparation.
Happy growing,
T.R.
For Premium prints and cultivation info check out www.thehawkseye.comEdited by TrippinRhino on 10/10/01 06:59 PM.
--------------------
All rhinos are endangered species...save the rhinos
|
Droog
Stranger
Registered: 10/08/01
Posts: 6
Last seen: 21 years, 11 months
|
 Re: Do you want to make rye shakables? [Re: TrippinRhino]
#421167 - 10/10/01 06:14 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Wow! thanks for the totally in depth tek!!
just a couple questions though..
when you put the jars in the PC, the lids are placed on, rubber seal up, and the metal ring on loose, correct?
and when you take the jar out of the pressure cooker the metal ring is tightend, with the rubber seal still up? That doesnt really make sence to me because thats not how the lid is supposed to be closed.. and doesnt there have to be some sort of gas exchange so that the mycaelum doesnt get killed off by CO2??
also, ive read other places that say it takes between 20-30 days to 100% colonize, but you are saying this method takes only 4-6? if so, thats great!
thanks again, thats one wonderful post. i saved it to a .txt
peace
"cus it aint gonna be like you think it is - thats the one thing you can take to the bank."Edited by Droog on 10/10/01 07:17 PM.
--------------------
"cus it aint gonna be like you think it is - thats the one thing you can take to the bank."
|
TrippinRhino
addict
Registered: 03/23/01
Posts: 342
Loc: TX
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
|
 Re: Do you want to make rye shakables? [Re: Droog]
#421178 - 10/10/01 06:24 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
<when you put the jars in the PC, the lids are placed on, rubber seal up, and the metal ring on loose, correct?> YES
<and when you take the jar out of the pressure cooker the lid is sealed, with the rubber seal still up?> YES
<That doesnt really make sence to me.. and doesnt there have to be some sort of gas exchange so that the mycaelum doesnt get killed off by CO2??>
#1 There is no mycelium until several days after innoculating the jars...#2 CO2 doesn't kill mycelium....just slows it down when the concentration is too high.... #3 I said to crack the lids of the jars after a few days....
<also, ive read other places that say it takes between 20-30 days to 100% colonize, but you are saying this method takes only 4-6? if so, thats great!>
I did not say 4-6...I said 4-6 additional after the first shaking. For a total of about 10-12 days for those inoculated with cakes and 12-14 for those inoculated with syringes.
NOTE: syringe inoculated jars may require 1 additional shaking 3-4 days after the second...
so for syringe inoculated,
1st shake when inoculated
2nd shake after 3-6 days
3rd shake 3-4 days after the 2nd
allow a few more days for complete recovery of the mycelium
12-14 days....seeee?
For Premium prints and cultivation info check out www.thehawkseye.comEdited by TrippinRhino on 10/10/01 07:29 PM.
--------------------
All rhinos are endangered species...save the rhinos
|
 Freefly
mycoman
Registered: 05/30/01
Posts: 40
|
Re: Do you want to make rye shakables? [Re: TrippinRhino]
#421197 - 10/10/01 06:40 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I used this tec for the first time 5 days ago and I am seeing rapid growth compared to previous BRF jars. They will be ready to case in just 6 days after adding a crumbled BRF cake. I am using quart jars and would suggest them over 1/2pints.
FF
Freeflying...The fastest non-mechanized sport in the world.
--------------------
XxXxFreeYourMindxXxX
|
TrippinRhino
addict
Registered: 03/23/01
Posts: 342
Loc: TX
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
|
Re: Do you want to make rye shakables? [Re: Freefly]
#421310 - 10/10/01 08:31 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Pints, quarts, gallons...this method will work fine for any of them. I used half pints because that is what most newbies will have.
For Premium prints and cultivation info check out www.thehawkseye.com
--------------------
All rhinos are endangered species...save the rhinos
|
NDK
member
Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 186
|
Re: Do you want to make rye shakables? [Re: TrippinRhino]
#421733 - 10/11/01 07:43 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
That's all good stuff.
In my experience, I don't have any problems with getting rye shakeable as long as I pre-boil the rye to achieve the correct moisture content.
Draining the cooked rye well & rinsing off any starch residue with hot water before putting in the jars works every time.
|
TrippinRhino
addict
Registered: 03/23/01
Posts: 342
Loc: TX
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
|
Re: Do you want to make rye shakables? [Re: NDK]
#421761 - 10/11/01 08:58 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Again, as I said, This is to help those who have not used grain before. Those who have prolly don't need this info
Peace
For Premium prints and cultivation info check out www.thehawkseye.com
--------------------
All rhinos are endangered species...save the rhinos
|
bluhoney
Yes Im a realgirl ,geeesh
 
Registered: 05/23/99
Posts: 936
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
|
Re: Do you want to make rye shakables? [Re: TrippinRhino]
#421773 - 10/11/01 09:15 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
very nice tek:)bluhoney
 information posted is for entertainment purposes only and should not be attempted in real life
--------------------
Information listed here is for entertainment only and is neither real or proven
|
RodRoddy
newbie
Registered: 07/02/01
Posts: 36
Last seen: 22 years, 1 month
|
Re: Do you want to make rye shakables? [Re: TrippinRhino]
#421779 - 10/11/01 09:19 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I recently read a post that gave me a bad feeling about boiling water and the rye. Although I like the idea of boiling water soaking into the rye or boiling the rye in water so that it soaks up water, this post said your removing all the nutrients when boiling. All that brown water you dump down the drain is nutrient that the mycelium needs. Is there any truth in that?
|
NDK
member
Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 186
|
Re: Do you want to make rye shakables? [Re: RodRoddy]
#421924 - 10/11/01 11:47 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
There might be, ahem, a grain of truth in it but it doesn't seem to make any practical difference at all. I certainly wouldn't worry about it. The benefits of pre-boiling seem to outweigh any theorectical loss in nutrients.
Rhino: I wasn't ciriticising your post, just saying how I personally ensure shakeable rye :-)
|
humplok9
member
Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 158
Last seen: 22 years, 9 months
|
Re: Do you want to make rye shakables? [Re: NDK]
#421933 - 10/11/01 12:03 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
i hate fucking brf/verm cakes
so im going to buy a pc and do this
thanks!
|
TrippinRhino
addict
Registered: 03/23/01
Posts: 342
Loc: TX
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
|
Re: Do you want to make rye shakables? [Re: NDK]
#422040 - 10/11/01 01:56 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Indeed NDK...no offense was taken... In regard to the nutrient water: No doubt there is nutrition in the darkened grain water. As NDK said...it seems to pose little practical difference. If you are eager to make use of the nutrients in the water, it can be pressure cooked in a jar (rubber seal down this time) and stored for a little while in the fridge. It can be kept for use in jar substrates.
Initially for me, that was one of the reasons for adding the extra verm. It allowed the use of the grain water. The verm is wet with nutient water and therefore it colonizes as well. I pretty much just pour what little extra I get down the sink...
One thing that I forgot to mention earlier is that anytime you go to shake your jars you should tighten the lids, shake, and then re-loosen the lids. By doing this you reduce the swabing of airborne contams into your jars...
For Premium prints and cultivation info check out www.thehawkseye.com
--------------------
All rhinos are endangered species...save the rhinos
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Edit 
Reply 
Freefly
debianlinux
Snobrdr311
Bavet