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Re: A Request [Re: Moxemerald]
    #4159654 -

Carlos Castaneda himself was fiction...the character never existed except in those books. The man who wrote those books did not bear that name. You cannot be more fictional...when the author himself is an invention. This dovetails nicely with the theme of the book. Think about this: The whole point is based in those books being fiction. Seeing was a term used to describe the world as being energy and one's realization of that practical fact.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: A Request [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4159662 -

Err Carlos Castaneda isnt fiction dude

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Re: A Request [Re: Moxemerald]
    #4159701 -

Do some research. Castaneda was NOT that persons name. That IS fact...dude. Ceasar Arana was his name. It is now often now appended to his fictional name, but his birth name was Ceasar Arana and he is from Peru...not Brazil as he said in his books. Everything he said about himself in his books was fictional. Why would he disclose his personal history? Much of what is written about him was taken on his word....he lied. Several writers have tried tio do Biographies of him and could find almost no correct information to publish. All those who knew him will not discuss it.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: A Request [Re: Moxemerald]
    #4159734 -

Here is a link you might enjoy.
http://www.sustainedaction.org/Explorations/a_night_with_the_real_don_Juan.htm


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: A Request [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4159750 -

Quote:
Many philosophies such a the Hindu religion tell us to be content with our lot in life...in other words shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down.


Please provide scripture references to this supposed truth. Seems the spirituality of India is all about liberation from the world, not remaining in it. But prove me wrong with your actual sources if you are so correct.

Quote:
One would do well to remember that the countries of origin for many varieties of Buddhism were class conscious countries where religion was used to keep the poor people poor and the rich people on top.


So what? What societies are classless? How exactly did the Buddhists keep people poor and the wealthy living in opulence? Please provide historical examples.

Quote:
There is much good to say about Buddhism, but it has been used to negatively manipulate people as much as any other religion.


Can you provide any historical examples of Buddhist monks manipulating and harming others on par with, say, the Crusades or the Inquisition?

Quote:
To follow any philosophy and hail it as wisdom blindly is folly and an abdication of personal freedom.


Agreed. But who is doing this?

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Re: A Request [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4159756 -

Quote:
Enlightenment is an ideal...not a reality.


I'd say it is a fleeting state of consciousness.

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Re: A Request [Re: Vvellum]
    #4159762 -

Look at the untouchables in medieval Japan and even present day India. Buddhism was (and is) the vehicle used to enforce this monsterosity. Fact. I don't need to search scriptures for it is history.

"Agreed. But who is doing this?"
You apparently.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: A Request [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4159809 -

Quote:
Look at the untouchables in medieval Japan and even present day India.


What exactly does this have to do with the actual religion of Buddhism and not the culture of these said nations?

Quote:
Buddhism was (and is) the vehicle used to enforce this monsterosity.


Examples?

Quote:
Fact. I don't need to search scriptures for it is history.


You said: Many philosophies such a the Hindu religion tell us to be content with our lot in life...in other words shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down.

Well, let's see where it is expressed in the writings and scriptures of the Indian religions/philosophies or in the key figures of these movements- you said it man, I'm just looking for your source. Back your words up at least.

Quote:
"Agreed. But who is doing this?"
You apparently.


How so? By questioning your statements?

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Re: A Request [Re: Moxemerald]
    #4159815 -

Moxemerald said:
I dont think it was ever proven that they are fiction. 

I know it doesn't deal with enlightenment in the buddhist sense but it deals with 'see'ing and much of the ideals of enlightenment


First off you can't say one way or the other if they are fiction. So why bother talking about it.

The other thing is I don't know how you got the idea I don't believe in enlightenment. I will say this again in the hopes you will hear me this time. Your and my ideas of enlightenment are most likely not the same thing. :rolleyes:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: A Request [Re: Icelander]
    #4161090 -

exactly icelander and egghead, you religous types are mere proponents of a ancient slave mentality.

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Re: A Request [Re: Doom]
    #4161125 -

why?

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Re: A Request [Re: Icelander]
    #4161232 -

Icelander said:
If you are balanced, then you can easily cope with working a shitty job, helping the capatalists get rich, its really not a problem, you have your balance and peace, serving others is ok.

_____________________________________________________________________

Is doing this serving others? It seems more to me like enabling evil. :mushroom2:


Well, im just pointing out that one does not need to become a political activist to serve others. A capatalist who loves money is still a human being after all, so in doing your job, he is paying for your food, shelter and other things and in return you are giving him what he wants. I like to see work as a bribe for doing something you don't like. If there is an oppertunity for changing to doing something you do like, and you want to do that, then why not? But if you have to work a shitty job, then its best to work with the situationn as best you can, i see no use in complaining (unbless you are being unfairly treated), as someone has to do the job, why not you?

Doom, If you see this as some kind of slavery, get over yourself, everyone has to work to feed themselves, cloth themselves, and generally live life. If you want to live outseide the system and become a beggar, then go for it, do what you feel you have to do. But seriously if you want to live in this world, then chances are, unless your self employed, you are going to be working underneath someone on the employment ladder. Thats just a fact of life, capatlist arent evil as such, they have just forgotten why they are earnning money for, they forgot that we as human beings have to work to live, not live to work, there comes a point when you have to say "i have enough money now", the capatalists never understand this lesson, and so there craving is pretty much out of control to the extent where they would even harm others to get more cash for the further accumiliation of more cash. Myself, i am happy and content in my job, i earn enough to live and thats all i need. Its your actions, mind and intentions which serve to help others, whatever job you work, how you are and how you relate to other people in this world is much more important.  :heart:


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All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!

Edited by egghead1 (05/11/05 09:32 AM)

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Re: A Request [Re: egghead1]
    #4161356 -

Well I can see your point, but I don't really agree with it for myself.

Capitalism is hell bent to destroy the earth in its greed for power money and control. I may work in the system but I don't tell myself it's good. Almost any job you could have would cause you to be abused to some degree or another.(unfairly treated). I have what is considered to be by many about the best job one can get in my town. But I see the shit that goes on and they don't even want to think about it. Whenever you have one person in charge of or managing another you have an unhealthy situation IMO. I know that's the way things are, but you will never convince me that its "fair"

Still you are right about this. If you can't accept what is happening in your life, if you can't take responsibility and acknowledge that it was also your choices and thinking patterns that brought you into the job or living situation you currently have, you don't need anyone else to enslave you. You do that just fine yourself. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: A Request [Re: Icelander]
    #4161439 -

If you don't like capitalism think about the next stage:
the caste system which is probably headed back this way for your descendents in a century soon to come.
layers upon layers of personal freedoms and violations, possibilities and needs, duties and limitations.
these are the works of man managing population and resources.
each pair of eyes and hands crossconnecting to make it possible to live in peace, labouring under the weight of density.

with the caste system you need something like hinduism.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: A Request [Re: Vvellum]
    #4161450 -

bi0 said:
why?


religions stress submissiveness, a good submissive follower makes for a balanced, controlled and peaceful society, where the shadow aristocracy is able to silently govern over their subjects with ease because their subjects have internalized the submissive cycle, a cycle which they will pass onto their children and their childrens children.

then along comes the 19th century and a few thinkers shake things up. The existentialist, the capitalist, the communist, the anarchist all begin to demand more of their external world rather than cowering inside themselves, which is just a compensation mechanism for external frustration anyways possibly.

Spirituality does not have to be limited to one*s thoughts, one actions should mirror ones internal dynamism, and usually they do.

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Re: A Request [Re: Doom]
    #4161471 -

how exactly does, say, buddhism "stress submissiveness"?

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Re: A Request [Re: Vvellum]
    #4161479 -

ok, you tell me which texts youve read and Ill give you my analysis.

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Re: A Request [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4161482 -

What ever happens after I die is none of my business. I will have no decendents to suffer under any system.

Sure things can get worse. And... :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: A Request [Re: Icelander]
    #4161495 -

Capitalism is hell bent to destroy the earth in its greed for power money and control.

So what should we be doing then? Forcing citizens into specific roles, coercing them to spend all their time slaving towards a perfect ideal? Do you really have a better idea?

Whenever you have one person in charge of or managing another you have an unhealthy situation IMO.

You also have something caused by basic psychology, a hierarchy of power is common with many animals.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: A Request [Re: Phluck]
    #4161515 -

Phluck said:
Capitalism is hell bent to destroy the earth in its greed for power money and control.

So what should we be doing then? Forcing citizens into specific roles, coercing them to spend all their time slaving towards a perfect ideal? Do you really have a better idea?

Whenever you have one person in charge of or managing another you have an unhealthy situation IMO.

You also have something caused by basic psychology, a hierarchy of power is common with many animals.


I never claimed to have any solutions I want to share. I just noticed what the fuck is really going on here. :mushroom2:

Yes a hierarchy of power is common among animals. OK, fine. Once again I'm just noticing that humans abuse power over others. I am not very concerned about any of this. I have found myself a way to deal with it. You get to figure out your way. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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