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Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy

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Re: Pre-emptive war to its logical extreme [Re: Autonomous]
    #4013104 -

I'll throw in another :thumbup:.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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Re: Pre-emptive war to its logical extreme [Re: Silversoul]
    #4039026 -


The Roman Empire expanded so far that it couldn't logistically afford to administer all of it, so many regions of it fell to the Germanic invaders. The British Empire lost some of its colonies to revolution, and ended up giving up the others(but not before making a mess of the Middle East). Hitler's Third Reich, which was supposed to last for a thousand years, fell after only 12 years of expansion.

Global domination isn't all it's cracked up to be. It comes at a very high cost, both human and logistical. As for Patton's suggestion, if both Hitler and Napoleon before him couldn't pull off a Russian invasion, what makes you so certain it would've worked for us?

Also, you seem to imply that we went into Iraq for purely altruistic reasons while other empires invaded other countries with the express purpose of expansion. Not true. Empires have always paid lip service to some sort of higher motive. Empires throughout history have justified their expansion based on cultural or racial superiority(Nazi Germany), exportation of revolution(Soviet Union), national self-determination(Israel), or spreading the benefits of civilization(Roman and British empires).

I think it would be equally naive to assume that we are in Iraq purely for the benefit of the Iraqis. They have the world's second largest supply of oil, a natural resource which will become increasingly important to us in the near future, as supply diminishes and prices rise. I'm not saying there aren't people in the administration who genuinely care about the well-being of the people in Iraq, but that is a secondary concern. The primary goal is to secure our access to their oil.

Of course, the US is different than other empires in that it does not openly govern the places it expands to. Since the US claims to stand for freedom and democracy, it cannot assert authoritarian rule over other countries, except temporarily, as with the Iraqi interim government. Instead, we exert covert influence over elections to ensure that our interests are secured. We also fund guerrilla groups who support our interests against governments which are unfavorable to us, such as in Nicaragua, or help governments who support our interests fight off opposition groups, such as in Colombia.

All this has the same basic effect of imperialism, without creating a politically visible entity which could be called an empire. The American empire is the empire which dares not speak its name.

I agree with some of your points, but disagree with a few others. But these are the topics that should be presented in congress and our government. We should be actively talking about expanding our borders and putting down our enemies. The fact that this talk doesn't occur is what upsets me. I trust the military to handle logistics, but I don't trust a congress of the most powerful nation on earth that sits on their hands and won't even discuss the unique opportunity we are in.

If history has taught us anything, its that from tribes to ethnic groups to nations there has always been a power struggle between competing groups of people. It is foolish to disregard this fundamental principle that governs humanity.

Kill or be killed sums it up nicely.

I think the philosophy of global rule by a nation should be embraced and encouraged. Instead it is a bad word to talk about war for selfish purposes. It shouldn't be that way. We are just sugar-coating our actions in order to look civil and humane, when in fact the most humane thing we could do is protect our stock, protect our future, protect our children, and invest our energies to providing a lasting hold on power for years to come.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: Pre-emptive war to its logical extreme [Re: looner2]
    #4039202 -

Protect "our" people? I hope your not in any position of power, and hope that you never will be.

You advocate war as if it's a video game.. their are consequences, and selfless promotion of one nations interests, over the needs of all the other world's nations will be the downfall of said nation through it's own efforts. War is necessary to the extent it serves a purpose, not to the extent that we must acquire and maintain control for our imperialist efforts.

Seriously, your notion of war, and your extremist approach to acquiring what you and you ilk need, would lead to a greater promotion of class distinction once everything has finally been dominated, the only thing left to dominate would be the people you were attempting to serve to begin with... similar logic begets similar logic, I don't think you'd change your logic as a result of winning the "domination game"... when would enough be enough through your logic?


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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Re: Pre-emptive war to its logical extreme [Re: looner2]
    #4039216 -

loOner2: I believe I've found the perfect organization for someone with your beliefs: www.newamericancentury.org


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Re: Pre-emptive war to its logical extreme [Re: Silversoul]
    #4039294 -

:lol: Well, at least their honest...

I found a favorite movie. http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/base.html


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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Re: Pre-emptive war to its logical extreme [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4039362 -

looner,

Does protecting our people go hand in hand with promoting a philosophy that would encourage nations to attack our borders?

Are you implying that peaceful coexistence between nations has never worked and will never work?

Would you wish to live in a country that covered the world over? Seven billion people under one dominant force?

I don't sugar coat shit. That doesn't mean I take laxatives and chow down on it nightly.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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Re: Pre-emptive war to its logical extreme [Re: Gijith]
    #4039704 -

"I don't sugar coat shit. That doesn't mean I take laxatives and chow down on it nightly"

:lol:


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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Pre-emptive war to its logical extreme [Re: Gijith]
    #4050148 -


Does protecting our people go hand in hand with promoting a philosophy that would encourage nations to attack our borders?


Promoting a philosophy that encourages our nation to flourish is what takes precedent. If this encourages a nation to attack our borders, so be it.


Are you implying that peaceful coexistence between nations has never worked and will never work?

I believe it can work, under certain circumstances. First, with 1 powerful nation and many smaller, weaker nations. It does no good for the U.S to take interest in Africa, South America, and most of Asia. These countries will not make the U.S stronger and hence should be left alone. Large countries like China and Russia can also exist, but only if they have a non-existent military and the inability to build one up.

Post world war 2 set up a world stage in which the U.S, the most powerful nation, was able to keep relative peace around the world without a huge conflict. Thanks to Reagon (bless his heart), the Soviet Union was reduced to shambles, and hence more peace worldwide.

Now when I mention peace, I mention it in the sense of a world war. Small conflicts in specific areas are always bound to happen.

Take for example pre-WW1. After the French Revolution the idea of nationalism spread like wildfire across europe, and hence the need for larger militaries. Once these militaries were set up, everyone was waiting for something to happen. Alliances were made, and a very small event lead to a world war.

The problem? Too many countries with power, all wanting more... and they had the means to intiate force upon other nations.

I recommend eliminating the means of a country being able to intiate force, which is why I think we failed post WW2 in securing a world in which we were the sole power. At this moment 3 world powers are becoming militarily capable of taking on the U.S

China
Russia
European Union

It is only a matter of time when one of them sees an opportunity.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: Pre-emptive war to its logical extreme [Re: looner2]
    #4050347 -

*Reagan (curse his rotten bowels)

What we need are some aliens to fight.  Once we have aliens to fight we will have to stop fighting each other, and focus the collective effort of the human race on killing aliens.  That's what we are best at, right? Killin shit.

:cthulhu: :machinegun:

----------------------------

KILL THE PRESIDENT

In a world without leaders
Who'd start all the wars?
The world that you're saving
Will always be yours
Kill the President
Listen to the voice of reason
Unify with that single line
Stop the man with the power
Of the goverment
A leader's not the center
Of democracy
In a world without leaders
Who'd make people starve?
The world that we're saving
Will always be ours
Everyone says
Well maybe I'll make a difference
Thinking they've got plenty of time
But you're squezed
A little tighter everyday
Punished before you can commit a crime
In a world without leaders
Who'd start all the wars?
The world that your saving
Will always be yours
Kill the President
Listen to the voice of reason
Unify with that single line
Stop the man with the power
Of the goverment
A leader's not the center
Of democracy
America
All of your eminies
Come from within
But you lash out so
It is seen
Like some frightened child
In an angry world
Or the fall of Rome
Your demise comes
From your own hands
In a world without leaders
Who'd start all the wars?
The world that you're saving
Will always be yours
In a world without leaders
We might have a chance
But we'll never see it
As long as there's
A president
KILL the president, kill the president
KILL the president, kill the president
KILL the president, kill the president NOW!

----------------------------

Everyting in the above post is quoted from a different source; The opinions and views expressed in this post are the sole opinions and views of Dexter and not me.  Furthermore the lyrics of a song can be interpreted in many different ways, I hope you find your own interpretation inspiring.


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