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Invisibleiglou
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Registered: 03/08/02
Posts: 295
Iraq war recap
    #1766100 - 07/31/03 03:06 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

1) Iraq deemed part of the Axis of Evil after September 11th. Regime change demanded by Bush administration. Alleged Iraqi links to Al Queda are put forth by Bush administration.

2) Regime change too controversial.

3) Objective is modified to the more politically-correct "search for WMD" and "Iraqi liberation" and "pre-emptive war"

4) Both republicans and democrats vote for the allowance of military action against Iraq.

5) UN begins search for WMD.

6) Bush administration sees the UN inspections as futile all the while insisting they have solid evidence that demonstrates Iraq posesses such weapons. Colin Powell even shows satellite images of supposed-moble WMD facilities during his presentation to the UN.

7) UN inspections end. Bush administration says the Iraqi threat to the US is too great to continue another week. "US must attack NOW!," says spokesman Bush.

8) US/UK bombings begin. Land war begins.

9) Iraqi military pretty much non-existent. Bagdad seems abandoned.

10) No WMD attack during war when the Hussein regime is facing annihilation. Israel isnt even attacked.

11) Still no WMD found. Searches and inspections are at best minimal. A few interesting sites are found, but none come even close to WMD. Those moble WMD-trucks are never found.

12) The supposed strong Iraqi links to al Queda are never validated/proven.

13) No WMD. Intelligence used to justify "pre-emptive war" shown to be manufactured.

14) Bush administration rhetoric turns to "how much more free the Iraqi people are today" and thus regime change justified.

15) US soldiers morale is very low. Soldiers are killed everyday now policing the streets of Iraq.

Gee - makes you wonder if the whole WMD, "America is under imminent threat" thing was just pretext for further development for the US as a global constable. I refer everyone to the PNAC statements to see what the foreign policy objectives the Bush administration/neocons wish to accomplish. All the while the democrats are somehow "anti-war" even though they authorized the president to go to war - goes to show you how much the Democratic Party are political whores.


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,283
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: iglou]
    #1766308 - 07/31/03 04:14 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Actually, regime change was first proposed by Clinton in 98, and congress backed him on it.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: wingnutx]
    #1766324 - 07/31/03 04:20 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

...but every thing else is fine... :wink:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 18 years, 8 days
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: iglou]
    #1766334 - 07/31/03 04:23 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

iglou said:
All the while the democrats are somehow "anti-war" even though they authorized the president to go to war - goes to show you how much the Democratic Party are political whores.




I could not possibly agree with that statement any more.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: iglou]
    #1767873 - 08/01/03 01:38 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Certainly makes it clear that democrat and republican parties are both firmly in the pockets of their corporate masters.

The amazing thing is how meekly the media accepted the complete bullshit WMD propaganda Bush was churning out. Scott Ritter was proclaiming the truth for years.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,283
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: Xlea321]
    #1768863 - 08/01/03 12:00 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Scott Ritter was taking Iraqi funding and chasing 15 year olds for years.


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OfflineRonoS
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Registered: 01/26/01
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: wingnutx]
    #1768945 - 08/01/03 12:41 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

sure he was... :rolleyes:


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,283
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: Rono]
    #1768979 - 08/01/03 12:59 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

By his own admission, Ritter accepted $400,000 in funding two years ago from an Iraqi-American businessman named Shakir al-Khafaji. Ritter used the money to visit Baghdad and film a documentary purporting to tell the true story of the weapons inspections

http://slate.msn.com/id/2071502/






Quote:

Ritter faced misdemeanor charges for trying to solicit an underage girl for sexual acts.

http://stacks.msnbc.com/local/wnyt/m264375.asp






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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: wingnutx]
    #1769000 - 08/01/03 01:06 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

wingnutx said:
Scott Ritter was taking Iraqi funding and chasing 15 year olds for years. 



YOU BASTARD!

How dare you try and throw facts into the discussion.

Have you no shame sir?

:lol:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: Rono]
    #1769028 - 08/01/03 01:14 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

so where does "It's all aboot oil" fit in? :smirk:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleiglou
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Registered: 03/08/02
Posts: 295
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1769058 - 08/01/03 01:23 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

wingnutx: why not show the rest of the quote? you left out alot.

Quote:

But this theory doesn't solve the Ritter riddle. Of the $400,000, he claims that only $42,000 went into his own pocket?which, if true, is a low price for the integrity of a former Marine who by all accounts was a zealot for his old cause. And Ritter didn't need to switch sides to make money. A few years ago, he had ample work as an Iraq-bashing TV analyst, lecturer, and author. As a Bush critic, he may be more visible, but he is certainly less employable; Fox News, for instance, dumped him as an analyst after deciding his views had become too pro-Iraq.

What's more, Ritter's conversion apparently began before he ever met al-Khafaji. In 1999 he published Endgame, a book that railed against the Clinton administration, labeled the sanctions against Iraq "evil," and suggested that the international community could do business with Saddam. It was only after Endgame was published that Ritter says he was approached by al-Khafaji. It's possible that Ritter took money from al-Khafaji, or some other ally or agent of Saddam, before writing Endgame. But there's no evidence of that.




Exactly - no evidence.

Quote:

Ritter faced misdemeanor charges for trying to solicit an underage girl for sexual acts.




Character assassination. Who cares? We are talking about Iraq not the personal life of Ritter.

luvdemshrooms writes:

Quote:

How dare you try and throw facts into the discussion.




What facts? Wingnutz did not put any forth.


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Invisibleiglou
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Registered: 03/08/02
Posts: 295
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1769074 - 08/01/03 01:27 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

so where does "It's all aboot oil" fit in?

In my opinion, oil was not the sole reason for the US/UK invasion of Iraq. The real reasons can be found in the PNAC document signed by nearly all of the war planners. Oil is simply a prize of war, not the objective.



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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,283
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: iglou]
    #1769094 - 08/01/03 01:31 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

We are talking about Iraq not the personal life of Ritter.




If Ritter is quoted as a witness, then his behavior and background must be examined. Anyone can call up any number of dubious witnesses on damn near any topic, but the witness must bear scrutiny, so I try to leave the bad one's out of it. I admit that his being a ped may not necessarily have bearing on the case, but his financial dealings certainly do. His credibility is far from sterling.

I included the link instead of posting the document in it's entirety, as is SOP. It obviously wasn't much of a hardship for you to link on it.



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: iglou]
    #1769124 - 08/01/03 01:37 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

What facts?

Ritter admitted taking the money.



Quote:

It's possible that Ritter took money from al-Khafaji, or some other ally or agent of Saddam, before writing Endgame. But there's no evidence of that.



It merely says there's no evidence he took the money before writing his book, not that he didn't take the money.



Quote:

What facts? Wingnutz did not put any forth.



On the contrary, he admitted taking the money, and he was charged with child molestation.

Which as you can see....
" Scott Ritter was taking Iraqi funding and chasing 15 year olds for years. ....
is the only claim wingnutz made. Neither is in dispute, hence my line.



--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: iglou]
    #1769161 - 08/01/03 01:48 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

In my opinion, oil was not the sole reason for the US/UK invasion of Iraq. 




don't tell Rono that or he might flip his lid..:eek:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: wingnutx]
    #1769169 - 08/01/03 01:49 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

His credibility is far from sterling.

Apart from the fact that he was right while Bush and his merry men were lying through their teeth.

Being right tends to enhance someones credibility in my book. Doesn't it in yours?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: Xlea321]
    #1769177 - 08/01/03 01:54 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

While you would like to believe he's right, and he may very well be, there is no proof of that. Yet.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1769196 - 08/01/03 02:02 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I wouldn't "like to believe" anything. Ritter said Iraq had no WMD, we have found no WMD.

"Belief" has nothing to do with it.



--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: Xlea321]
    #1769205 - 08/01/03 02:04 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Just because they have not found them yet does not mean they are not there and you know that Alex.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: shakta]
    #1769214 - 08/01/03 02:05 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Do you believe in the Loch Ness monster too?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: Xlea321]
    #1769332 - 08/01/03 02:37 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
I wouldn't "like to believe" anything. Ritter said Iraq had no WMD, we have found no WMD.

"Belief" has nothing to do with it.



Since when has NOT finding something been accepted as proof that it doesn't exist?

It seems in your case, belief has everything to do with it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: Xlea321]
    #1769334 - 08/01/03 02:38 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

How do you know for a fact that they don't exist. Quit being a jackass. You don't know, and I don't know. That is all there is to it.


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,283
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: Xlea321]
    #1769692 - 08/01/03 04:01 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I have never found a dinosaur fossil. I still believe that they exist. Please rework your logic.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: wingnutx]
    #1769721 - 08/01/03 04:09 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I have never found a dinosaur fossil

But someone else has.

I still believe that they exist

Because they have been found and can be seen in any museum.

Please rework your logic.

Where did you learn your "logic"? The back of a matchbox?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,283
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: Xlea321]
    #1769732 - 08/01/03 04:12 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Someone else has found anthrax in Iraq, at previous times and places.

Because they have not done so lately does not mean that they do not exist.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: wingnutx]
    #1769750 - 08/01/03 04:16 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

That dinosaur fossil analogy bit the dust pretty damn quick didn't it  :lol:

We certainly know Iraq had anthrax in the eighties because the US was shipping it to him. 


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,283
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: Xlea321]
    #1769758 - 08/01/03 04:17 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

No, that analogy is fine. Your density is the problem.


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,283
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: Xlea321]
    #1769768 - 08/01/03 04:19 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Iraq obtained veterinary anthrax samples from a university in the US.

What UNSCOM found was large quantities of weaponized anthrax. Some was verified to be destroyed, some was not.



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: Xlea321]
    #1769939 - 08/01/03 04:58 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

That dinosaur fossil analogy bit the dust pretty damn quick didn't it



Actually.... it didn't.

He hasn't found fossils.
Someone else has at some time.

Searchers haven't found anthrax.
Someone else has at some time.

Or are you saying that if no-one finds fossils for the next 6 months they no longer exist?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1769949 - 08/01/03 05:00 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

wtf?  :lol:



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Offlineshakta
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: Xlea321]
    #1769973 - 08/01/03 05:04 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Everyone gets it but you. I guess you are acustomed to that though. :lol:


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: shakta]
    #1769990 - 08/01/03 05:08 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah everyone gets that there's no more evidence that dinosaur fossils exist than there is Iraq had WMD 6 months ago  :rolleyes: 


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1772160 - 08/02/03 06:52 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

That dinosaur fossil analogy bit the dust pretty damn quick didn't it



Actually.... it didn't.

He hasn't found fossils.
Someone else has at some time.

Searchers haven't found anthrax.
Someone else has at some time.

Or are you saying that if no-one finds fossils for the next 6 months they no longer exist?




The key words here are "at some time."

Let's review a little history, shall we?

There were inspectors in Iraq. They were searching for WMD. They were allowed to go wherever they wanted, whenever they wanted.

Bush and Blair, with no credible evidence WHATSOEVER, claimed that Iraq posed an imminent threat to the entire civilized world. Blair went so far as to tell the complete and utter lie that Iraq could attack within 45 minutes.

Because of this "imminent threat" the inspectors were forced out prematurely--by the US and Britain, not by Iraq--under the pretext that the US and Britain must attack immediately "before it's too late."

Even if some form of WMD are eventually found, the case that Iraq posed an IMMINENT threat to the west was a fabrication, pure and simple. Any truly imminent (that is to say, large-scale and readily deployable) threat would have been found by now.

Anyway, nothing has been found yet. Perhaps it may, who knows? But somehow I have the sneaking suspicion that even if nothing is found ten years from now you'll still be harboring this fantasy that it's all hidden in a cave somewhere.

It's called "denial." There are treatments. Or maybe you can just talk to Inny and ask him where HE found the strength to face reality and carry on.

Perhaps it has something to do with transcending your party affiliations. Blair, for example, heads the Labour party in the UK and would therefore be considered a liberal. That doesn't stop me from hating his guts. I hope the Labour party has the courage to replace him with somebody better. If they don't, I hope they lose big time to the Conservatives in the next parliamentary election. Anyway, that's how I would vote if I were British. The offense is serious enough that I would vote against my own party to set things right.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1772244 - 08/02/03 08:17 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

There were inspectors in Iraq. They were searching for WMD. They were allowed to go wherever they wanted, whenever they wanted.



Come on... they were often kept waiting outside of buildings they wanted to enter for periods of time, why?


Quote:

Anyway, nothing has been found yet. Perhaps it may, who knows? But somehow I have the sneaking suspicion that even if nothing is found ten years from now you'll still be harboring this fantasy that it's all hidden in a cave somewhere.



I've stated each time this subject comes up that I don't know if they have them or not. In response to questions on if he had them, why didn't he use them, with suggestions on POSSIBILITIES. So how is that fantasizing anything?


Perhaps those fantasizing are those who state as fact that there are no weapons?


So since you seem to have missed it, I'll say again,

I don't claim they have these weapons.

I don't claim they don't.

Either is a possibility.

Clear enough?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1772387 - 08/02/03 10:16 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

LDS, do you believe the Bush admin KNOWS that they have WMD?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1772400 - 08/02/03 10:26 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I don't claim they have these weapons.

And what about those dinosaur fossils? Do you still maintain the existince of dinosaur fossils is no more certain than the existence of WMD in Iraq in the last 6 months?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: Grav]
    #1772748 - 08/02/03 02:35 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
LDS, do you believe the Bush admin KNOWS that they have WMD?



Since they have access to info I do not, and since I have no secret source in the whitehouse, nor do I possess abilities far beyond those of mortal men, I can only say I don't know.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Iraq war recap [Re: Xlea321]
    #1772750 - 08/02/03 02:36 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
I don't claim they have these weapons.

And what about those dinosaur fossils? Do you still maintain the existince of dinosaur fossils is no more certain than the existence of WMD in Iraq in the last 6 months?



I suggest you re-read what I wrote as many times as necessary to grasp what I said.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,283
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1772769 - 08/02/03 02:43 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

The obligation was on Iraq to prove that they had disarmed, not on the inspectors to root out hidden things. This is what Iraq agreed to do in the cease-fire, and then failed to live up to. Making the inspectors play hide-and-seek violates the terms they agreed to.

Significant quantities of weapons went unaccounted for when the first inspections regime left inthe 90s. Anthrax was there, now it's not. Iraq had the resposibility of documenting where they went, and instead offered that they had been destroyed with no proof or documentation.

That's you casus belli right there.


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Invisibleiglou
enthusiast
Registered: 03/08/02
Posts: 295
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: wingnutx]
    #1773496 - 08/02/03 07:16 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

How many treaties/agreements have the US/UK broken (or other governments for that matter)?

Anthrax has a short shelf-life. Whatever Anthrax Iraq may or may not have had would be nothing more than innocuous white powder prior to the US/UK invasion.

Where are the WMD facilities (ala North Korea)? Are there any internal documents proving they were in fact creating WMD? Certainly such endeavors would require massive infrastructure, which in turns requires lots of physical things like documents, at the very least.

Honestly, what level of resource and dedication and manpower are going into the search for these phantom WMDs? Just from the news, seems like the invaders are more interested in capturing Hussein and policing the streets of Iraq. Quite telltale of the US/UK motives (regime change, global hegemony).

If Iraq did indeed possess such powerful weapons, why didnt they use them when they were facing total annihilation?


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,283
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: iglou]
    #1774609 - 08/03/03 02:32 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Anthrax has a short shelf-life.




Nope. Anthrax spores can survive for literally centuries with no containment at all, buried in the dirt. Ask a veterinarian or rancher, or follow the link provided below.

If the US or England breaks a cease-fire agreement, then the other party has the right to resume hostilities with us.

AHRQ's Bioterrorism and Emerging Infections Site


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OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: wingnutx]
    #1775054 - 08/03/03 10:01 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

wingnutx said:
Significant quantities of weapons went unaccounted for when the first inspections regime left inthe 90s. Anthrax was there, now it's not. Iraq had the resposibility of documenting where they went, and instead offered that they had been destroyed with no proof or documentation.

That's you casus belli right there.




In that case the casus belli existed long before March 2003. Why then go through the entire charade of sending inspectors in?

In fact, if that's the case, the casus belli existed as far back as November, 2000. It sure would have been nice of Bush to have mentioned attacking Iraq during the presidential campaign so that the American people would have known what they were getting themselves into back in the days when their heads had yet to be clouded over by irrational terror.

The fact of the matter is that the "justification" that the administration gave for the war changed on a weekly basis. One week it's WMD, the next week it's some unproven link to al-Qaeda, and so on.

Even if there HAD been a legitimate casus belli under international law, which is certainly debatable, Bush still had a responsibility to present an accurate and undistorted case both to the U.S. Congress, which the founders strictly insisted should have the final say in all acts of war, and to the American people. That case was distorted to fit a predetermined agenda. Proof was claimed to exist that didn't. End of story.



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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,283
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1775702 - 08/03/03 04:26 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

In that case the casus belli existed long before March 2003.




Yes, it did. Iraq had been in flagrant violation for years, guessing correctly that no one had thw will to actually enforce the terms of the cease fire.

Quote:

Why then go through the entire charade of sending inspectors in?




To satisfy those in the UN and elsewhere that were bent on preventing the use of force at any cost. Dotting all the I's and crossing all the T's, so to speak.


Quote:

The fact of the matter is that the "justification" that the administration gave for the war changed on a weekly basis.




There was definitely more than one good reason to go in, and all were outlined from the start. The press like to grab onto a single issue and flog it relentlessly, much like they do with an annoying catch-phrase such a 'shock and awe'. They aren't very good at doing this with more than one concept at a time.

We live in a sound-bite culture and what is presented in the media is often just a fragment of the case actually presented. If you go by entire texts of cases presented by Bush or Powell on any number of occasions, you'll find an entire laundry list.

WMD's were at the top of the list, though, and that issue is far from over.


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Offlineololiuqui
LSD-25

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 266
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
Re: Iraq war recap [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1791138 - 08/08/03 06:55 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
Quote:

In my opinion, oil was not the sole reason for the US/UK invasion of Iraq. 




don't tell Rono that or he might flip his lid..:eek: 




true there was an integraty issue aswell


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