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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: Silversoul]
    #4008530 -

Quote:
Does everyone get to share your bed? How about your car? Or your toothbrush?


If there were no ownership, there would be no "your" bed, "your" car, or "your" toothbrush. But that does not mean there would be a shortage of toothbrushes.

And actually, if we can get rid of all monetary systems, I'll be happy to share toothbrushes with everyone.


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Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: Silversoul]
    #4008537 -

Been fun chating. Like I said in my fucked up quote/reply. I do work a second job for free. I know lots of people who do.

You either decide it's survival mode or you try to change and see if that's better.

I appreciate you views. Not much common ground so. Peace. :mushroom2:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4008538 -

Quote:
And actually, if we can get rid of all monetary systems, I'll be happy to share toothbrushes with everyone.


Have fun with herpes. I'm sure plenty of people will end up "sharing" that with you.


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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: Silversoul]
    #4008557 -

so because of the "toothbrush issue" paradigm has ruled out paradise for humanity. :rolleyes:

If only we can figure out a way for everyone to have their own toothbrush without actually owning them, we'll be all set.

I'll be working on a solution. :cheers:


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4008574 -

Smallworlds said:
so because of the "toothbrush issue" paradigm has ruled out paradise for humanity. :rolleyes:


No, I ruled out your ridiculously unworkable vision of paradise.

Quote:
If only we can figure out a way for everyone to have their own toothbrush without actually owning them, we'll be all set.

I'll be working on a solution. :cheers:


hint: The solution is ownership.


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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4008582 -

Ignorance means to lack knowledge of something.

Correct.


And since no one knows everything, I don't see how varying degrees of ignorance is dangerous.

Mr Smallworlds, with all due respect I am literally stupefied by the absurdity of this statement, emphasis mine. I cannot reply to this as I cannot think straight after trying, in all honesty, to comprehend your statement. Please either elaborate and be explicit in your postulations, or try again at another time. If your debating tactics include disorienting the other with gobbledlygook, then I give you an A+.

If anything it is our over-knowledge which is dangerous, ignorance is bliss.

Quite the reverse. No man will willingly choose falsehood over truth, or evil over good. It is ignorance that makes the bad choice possible. The whole of Jeffersonian democratic theory is based on the conviction that full knowledge leads to right action, and that right action is impossible without full knowledge in relation to the matter-at-hand.




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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: Silversoul]
    #4008586 -

Quote:
No, I ruled out your ridiculously unworkable vision of paradise.


total paradise itself is probably unworkable by mankind anyway

Quote:
hint: The solution is ownership.


no it's not, we have ownership now, and no paradise.


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4008594 -

Smallworlds said:
Quote:
hint: The solution is ownership.


no it's not, we have ownership now, and no paradise.


We have sunlight now, too. Maybe we should block out the sun. Then we'll have paradise.


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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: Silversoul]
    #4008637 -

I'm merely stating that the SYSTEM HAS FAILED!

I have no beef with the sun, the sun is not responsible for our degree of paradise, (other than without it we'd all be dead), the way we as human beings handle our affairs is responsible.

What exactly would be your policy if you could make changes to the world if I may ask?


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4008650 -

Smallworlds said:
I'm merely stating that the SYSTEM HAS FAILED!


No, the system has done its job of providing a means of exchange to enhance the lives of those participating in the system. The system was never meant to give us paradise. It was meant to give us a workable means of human interaction on a large scale.

Quote:
What exactly would be your policy if you could make changes to the world if I may ask?


How much time you got? I've made some very lengthy threads on this subject in PAL, if you're interested.


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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: Silversoul]
    #4008661 -

I got plenty, link a brother up if ya want. :thumbup:


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4008696 -

Certainly. You might want to check out this, and maybe this for starters.


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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: Silversoul]
    #4008702 -

Quote:
The system was never meant to give us paradise


That's right where it failed then. :shrug:

It's been long enough now, we demand something more than mere survival.


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


Trip Report

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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4008709 -

The system has brought us not merely survival, but prosperity. It is your proposed system which would bring about little more than survival, if that.


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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: kaiowas]
    #4008713 -

nothing personal, it's just business
     
I always say that right before I whack somebody.  :cool:


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: Silversoul]
    #4009157 -

"So what? People still make an informed decision to eat there, knowing that it isn't good for them. Not everyone wants to eat tofu and soy beans all the time."

informed decision or not, I think business should be responsible for the health of their customers, I'm talking about compassion here. the idea here is that money is the bottom line, and that's wrong. I know they are in business to make money, I understand that, but let me ask you this; how many products have been out there that the public has used which later on down the road caused major health problems? many have.

"Because some people can't afford to get the good stuff all the time. Thanks to the urban sprawl that's affected so many cities in America, the poor often have the biggest commutes, and if they have to get the most expensive shit there is, that's cutting into what's already just barely enough salary to get by."

thats the thing, just make the good shit. in california we have all these pollution laws which makes the tax on our gas even greater, yet there's still cheap gas which totally undermines the purpose of the tax in the first place. no compassion for the environment.

"You can thank our farm subsidies for that. The government basically pays farmers not to grow more than a certain amount of crops in order to keep prices artificially high."

and you think that the government and business is seperate?

"No one's twisting your arm here. The law requires them to provide a warning label, and there are plenty of other products you can choose from. Or you can just suck it up and learn to deal with that headache, you pussy."

whats with the name calling? I never said that business is twisting my arm. so much money is spent on making these products that create more problems then solve, not very efficient huh?

"Again, that's government, not business."

I think the lumber industry is a business. and you still think governemnt and business aren't interlinked?

"I'm sorry, but cost-efficiency is a factor businesses need to consider. They can't afford to keep suffering net losses just to try and be socially responsible."

damn right they should be socially responsible. they don't even care that the fuel source is a bi-product which takes years and years to reproduce. with great power comes great responsibility.


"The examples you cited are either cases where people have a choice, or cases of government intervention. I do agree with the sentiment that just because you're a business doesn't absolve you of responsibility for your actions, but I see nothing wrong with offering people options. And we need to be realistic about money here. Don't just roll your eyes at the notion that businesses need to make a profit. That's typical anti-capitalist rhetoric spouted by people with no understanding of business or economics. Profit is necessary to maintain a business. They need to compete in the market, and in order to remain competitive, you need to minimize costs while maximizing efficiency. "

I udnerstand that, but effeciency on one side causes much havoc and desrtuction on the other.

and lets be realitic about money here paradigm, it's fake. you can't trade money for gold bullion which totally makes it useless. you say its about supply and demand, if that's so, then why are we in debt?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: Silversoul]
    #4009166 -

Paradigm said:
The system has brought us not merely survival, but prosperity.  It is your proposed system which would bring about little more than survival, if that.


As I said, I'm not proposing a system but instead the absence of them. :laugh: :thumbup: :heart: :mushroom2:


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


Trip Report

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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4009205 -

in some ways no system at all would be a good thing. Realistically speaking, having no system when we are so used to this one wouldn't be a smooth transition.

I'm not talking about being anti-capitalist, I'm talking about change. things are always changing yet our government and the way business is handled remains the same.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: kaiowas]
    #4009241 -

it's quite obvious by observing the world that there are but two likely scenarios for the future.

Either:

A: the governments of man encroach on each other far enough through growth and expansion that world war 3 begins and the world as we know it is concluded through violence bringing about a new era of "Mad Max" type conditions.

or:

B: there is a massive shift in conciousness towards peace, protecting the environment of the Earth, and worldwide co-operation and one-ness, brought about by either massive natural calamities, or some other event or events which make certain key institutions finally wake up and do the right thing, even if only to save their own asses because they finally realize that the roof is on fire.

I'll pray for "B", and Swami can cut his toenails again for option "B" and I'm sure we'll be O.K.

I'm not so sure everything is gonna be allright just because we've "run out of calendar" once 2012 comes however. :lol:


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


Trip Report

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Re: nothing personal, it's just business [Re: kaiowas]
    #4009321 -

kaiowas said:
"So what? People still make an informed decision to eat there, knowing that it isn't good for them. Not everyone wants to eat tofu and soy beans all the time."

informed decision or not, I think business should be responsible for the health of their customers, I'm talking about compassion here. the idea here is that money is the bottom line, and that's wrong. I know they are in business to make money, I understand that, but let me ask you this; how many products have been out there that the public has used which later on down the road caused major health problems? many have.


If a business knowingly puts a harmful product on the market without informing the public, then that's tantamount to fraud. However, if they put a product on the market whose dangers are known by the customers, who choose to consume it anyway, that's their choice, and none of your business.

Quote:
"Because some people can't afford to get the good stuff all the time. Thanks to the urban sprawl that's affected so many cities in America, the poor often have the biggest commutes, and if they have to get the most expensive shit there is, that's cutting into what's already just barely enough salary to get by."

thats the thing, just make the good shit. in california we have all these pollution laws which makes the tax on our gas even greater, yet there's still cheap gas which totally undermines the purpose of the tax in the first place. no compassion for the environment.


Sometimes compassion for the environment and compassion for the poor need to be weighed against one another.

Quote:
"You can thank our farm subsidies for that. The government basically pays farmers not to grow more than a certain amount of crops in order to keep prices artificially high."

and you think that the government and business is seperate?


Not as much as they should be, but there are still clear distinctions between them.

Quote:
"No one's twisting your arm here. The law requires them to provide a warning label, and there are plenty of other products you can choose from. Or you can just suck it up and learn to deal with that headache, you pussy."

whats with the name calling? I never said that business is twisting my arm. so much money is spent on making these products that create more problems then solve, not very efficient huh?


Sorry, I should've put a smiley after that to indicate light-hearted joking. If a product creates more problems than it solves, then the consumer can make an informed choice not to buy that product. Simple as that. It's called free will.

Quote:
"Again, that's government, not business."

I think the lumber industry is a business. and you still think governemnt and business aren't interlinked?


Of course they're linked, but they're not one in the same. Sure, some business lobbies exert an alarming amount of influence on government policy, but the point is that the blame lies primarily on government here, not business.

Quote:
"I'm sorry, but cost-efficiency is a factor businesses need to consider. They can't afford to keep suffering net losses just to try and be socially responsible."

damn right they should be socially responsible. they don't even care that the fuel source is a bi-product which takes years and years to reproduce. with great power comes great responsibility.


huh?

Quote:
"The examples you cited are either cases where people have a choice, or cases of government intervention. I do agree with the sentiment that just because you're a business doesn't absolve you of responsibility for your actions, but I see nothing wrong with offering people options. And we need to be realistic about money here. Don't just roll your eyes at the notion that businesses need to make a profit. That's typical anti-capitalist rhetoric spouted by people with no understanding of business or economics. Profit is necessary to maintain a business. They need to compete in the market, and in order to remain competitive, you need to minimize costs while maximizing efficiency. "

I udnerstand that, but effeciency on one side causes much havoc and desrtuction on the other.


It doesn't have to be that way. Government intervention often creates this conflict of interest where there otherwise might not be one.

Quote:
and lets be realitic about money here paradigm, it's fake. you can't trade money for gold bullion which totally makes it useless. you say its about supply and demand, if that's so, then why are we in debt?


I'm not here to debate our current monetary policy. We're stuck with fiat currency for the time being, so that's the model that business is going to operate under. They can't just operate under a new system without getting the government to change it for you. And the reason the government's in debt is because it keeps borrowing money from the Federal Reserve. I fail to see how that is relevant to supply and demand. Nor do I see why money which can't be exchanged for gold(not true, btw--you can still buy gold, just like any other commodity) is necessarily "fake" or "useless."


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