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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Non-agreement = negativity...
    #3973579 - 03/26/05 08:29 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Or so it seems. Equally negative is challenging a post that disseminates "knowledge" with no basis, shooting down unfounded myths, highlighting errors, inconsistencies and fallacies; and displaying any view that does not include flowers, white robes, and harp music while reinforcing unbridled optimism and quaint cliches such as "Everything will work out."

*Swami lights incense and chants OmmMMMmmm in front of altar*


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Non-agreement = negativity... [Re: Swami]
    #3973601 - 03/26/05 08:33 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

And you've made this same thread...how many times?


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: Non-agreement = negativity... [Re: Swami]
    #3973611 - 03/26/05 08:37 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

if a person wants to see a disagreement as negative, isn't that their own interpretation? a person could learn a lot not from the discussion alone, but how they react during the discussion.

how about when you think that someone else views a disagreement as negative. isn't that reaction a part of your own ego as well?


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Non-agreement = negativity... [Re: kaiowas]
    #3973666 - 03/26/05 08:50 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

how about when you think that someone else views a disagreement as negative.

If someone flatly states that it is negative, how is that a judgement or reaction on my part?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Non-agreement = negativity... [Re: Silversoul]
    #3973667 - 03/26/05 08:50 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

*Swami gets out note pad and adds "repetition" to the list*

How many times have you pointed out my repetitiveness?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,340
Loc: On the Border
Re: Non-agreement = negativity... [Re: Swami]
    #3973676 - 03/26/05 08:53 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I have been confronted with this here AND in real life. I can smile, tell the person I like them, but I happen to disagree, and get the response "Why are you so negative?". I speak my mind openly, and often I am wrong or I misunderstand, but I do try to maintain a degree of openness in my opinion. I am usually in a good mood, but I hear "Why are you so negative?" and "You need to keep an open mind." "Don't be so angry." (wtf...angry when I am being cheerful?) upon expressing an unpopular opinion. This is another form of closed mind than which we are more familiar. These people try to disguise their closed minded attitude as open.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Non-agreement = negativity... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3973697 - 03/26/05 08:59 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, but why are you so angry and close-minded?

*Swami gives HooHoo a one-mushroom rating for his attitude*


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
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Re: Non-agreement = negativity... [Re: Swami]
    #3973826 - 03/26/05 09:28 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

It doesn't have to be. When people can agree to disagree, and be okay with someone disagreeing with them, then they have ultimately ended the discussion in a state of agreement. Perhaps it is not a positive experience for either if neither gained anything from it, but if it at least ends in a wash to agree to disagree then a disagreement can be a neutral affair. That means a zero value was achieved for both but no losses.

In a disagreement where a decision HAS to be made, then a compromise can turn a potential win/loss into a win win as no body looses and in a sense it is a positive gain because two or more parties demonstrated the skills of co-operation that can keep them operating as many, not solo and their is strength in numbers.

There may come times where something just has to come down to one or the other. In such a case, one has to give way or the other has to take by force. Taking by force from another is creating a negative loss for the one being taken from. In life, it seems that the bigger person will rise to the occasion to give way just to re instill peace.

However, running away is not giving way and does nothing for reinstilling peace as both parties were then left with a state of disolution. The one who runsa away creates a negative state by force in that sense without taking or giving.

back to actual giving way. The one who does may appear to be the weaker for giving in and let the other have their way, but often, it can just be a case where strengths were equated yet the person who is stronger in their sense of self and place in this world can give way easier making them the stronger person really.

In this case judging it to be a negative or positive in its resolution would look like this;

If it came to a draw without either using force to take from the other, the one who was able to give way, could more easily do so because ultimately they felt like they had more to give, making them a person with a higher sense of self worth, which quantifies from having personal assets, Alkin to being in a positive value state. The person who could not give way so easily probably can't because they felt like they didn't have anything to give, putting their personal sense of self worth at a deficit, a negative state of self value.

Often, disagreements that resolve themselves in this manor tend to equalise the tension or pressure of imbalance in the situation, providing their is NO resentment or begrudgment felt by the giver. That puts them in a state of witholding and its not really giving.

When the giving is genuine, the one who feels they have more to give can experience humility which is always a positive gain and the one who was given too can restore some sense of being worthy where they felt lacking in it before and they have gained in the positives to.

If a decision or consensus agreement doesn't have to be made right away then its best for either party not to do anything in haste. Its best to take the time you have to present your cases to all partiers involved to full so optimum understanding can be achieved for further considerations until the time the decision has to be made.

Often disagreements well up for no other reason then someone being in a lousy negative state mood, looking to increase the sense of self deficit by taking positive values from another.  If time is allowed before decisions are made, the person who started it in a lousy mood, may have rejuvenated themselves during a break and could then care less about what the disagreement was even about or over when the time to decide comes.

Just some thoughts to consider on this topic. :twirlyface:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: Non-agreement = negativity... [Re: Swami]
    #3973858 - 03/26/05 09:38 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
how about when you think that someone else views a disagreement as negative.

If someone flatly states that it is negative, how is that a judgement or reaction on my part?




i understand that, but you began the thread with "or so it seems." I rarely see someone say, "this argument is negative because you disagree" or something to that effect, but that's me :wink:

now I know people constantly say the you are negative, but we're talking about the discussion itself, not you...right?  :grin:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: Non-agreement = negativity... [Re: Silversoul]
    #3973883 - 03/26/05 09:48 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
And you've made this same thread...how many times?




:grin: :thumbup:


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Disclaimer!?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 19,920
Re: Non-agreement = negativity... [Re: Gomp]
    #3974089 - 03/26/05 10:50 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

the seeds of each argument are in the other side of the argument


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Non-agreement = negativity... [Re: Gomp]
    #3974775 - 03/27/05 01:46 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

By my count there are 57 threads on Chakras in the last 5 years yet no one comments on their redundancy. 43 on telekinesis, 35 on reincarnation and 37 on Astral Projectionand 68 on aliens/UFOs. Seems only CERTAIN repetitive threads are subject to scrutiny.

From now on, I decree that everyone post something ABSOLUTELY ORIGINAL and never before seen.

Thank you.  :cool:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,340
Loc: On the Border
Re: Non-agreement = negativity... [Re: Gomp]
    #3974780 - 03/27/05 01:48 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

There is a good reason that someone would reiterate the basics of logical thought....without repetitive persistance many people do not comprehend or retain information.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Non-agreement = negativity... [Re: Swami]
    #3974782 - 03/27/05 01:48 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Great point.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Non-agreement = negativity... [Re: kaiowas]
    #3974792 - 03/27/05 01:52 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"I rarely see someone say, "this argument is negative because you disagree" or something to that effect, but that's me"

Many if not most people lack the courage to stand up and say what they believe, thinking that to stand by meekly while something they privately disagree with continues is more socially acceptable or "cool".


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Non-agreement = negativity... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3974793 - 03/27/05 01:52 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Great point. :smile:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,340
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Re: Non-agreement = negativity... [Re: Swami]
    #3974796 - 03/27/05 01:54 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

no comment


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineZekebomb
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Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 1,164
Loc: BC province
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Non-agreement = negativity... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3975044 - 03/27/05 04:01 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

paradigm: And you've made this same thread...how many times?

but he repeats it for the benefit of the newbies. how gallant.

jiggy: but if it at least ends in a wash to agree to disagree then a disagreement can be a neutral affair. That means a zero value was achieved for both but no losses.


but both parties learned something from this, right? +1, +1.

redgreen: the seeds of each argument are in the other side of the argument

like a swirling yinyang.

swami: From now on, I decree that everyone post something ABSOLUTELY ORIGINAL and never before seen.

*zekebomb makes hissing snarling cat noise and waves a clawed hand menacingly*


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Non-agreement = negativity... [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3975239 - 03/27/05 07:14 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

few people are prepared to provide an heimlich manouver on a choking argument, or even alert enough to know if an argument has already expired.


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