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OfflineyelimS
bohem

Registered: 02/03/03
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Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
creation
    #3816940 - 02/22/05 03:13 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I've discovered the fun of arguing for men's supremacy with girls lately, and one of the "arguments" (ofcourse i'm right, so every argument against me is really only a joke in disguise) that keeps coming up is the one with adam the rough sketch/ eve the perfected human.
ofcourse i could claim no god with respect for itself would require a second try (perhaps made a silly one for amusement afterwards), but i thought i'd give a list of religions claiming that women were created first, so they'll have to come up with arguments for the bible being more accurate than these other religions in addition to the male-female debate.
so, most people reading this probably knows more religion than me. start listing!


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OfflineCyber
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Re: creation [Re: yelimS]
    #3817079 - 02/22/05 03:53 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I once heard it explained that woman was subordinate to man because having them equal did not work. The backing for that argument was that in Genesis 1:27 it states "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Then later in Genesis 2:7 it states "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." then in 2:22-23 "And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man."

So god screwed up the first time making them equal and thus destroyed the first humans and created a new human man, then from his rib created a woman to make her a subordinate.

You should really evaluate your reason for putting women down. They are our friends, confidants, lovers, and equals. To make them any less would simply degrade the love.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: creation [Re: Cyber]
    #3817222 - 02/22/05 04:27 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

""that keeps coming up is the one with Adam the rough sketch/ eve the perfected human.""

did he not make eve of Adams rib?

now, if thinking so, the woman, is a part of the man, whilst the man is the donor, hence the man in whole, and the woman, got part of the man? and need to become the rest of him, to be as "what ever" :P he he


(did somone mention xy xx?)  :confused:


--------------------


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Disclaimer!?


Edited by Gomp (02/22/05 04:30 PM)


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OfflineyelimS
bohem

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Re: creation [Re: Cyber]
    #3817303 - 02/22/05 04:46 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Cyber said:
You should really evaluate your reason for putting women down. They are our friends, confidants, lovers, and equals. To make them any less would simply degrade the love.




the best part is, people take me seriously!


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: creation [Re: yelimS]
    #3817665 - 02/22/05 05:58 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

cyber: You should really evaluate your reason for putting women down. They are our friends, confidants, lovers, and equals. To make them any less would simply degrade the love.

hey cyber, have you taken a look at your avatar recently?

yelimS: you could mention how the snake came along, and whispered sweet nothings in Eve's ear, and she was like "ohmygod, totally!" and grabbed the apple and coerced Adam into eating it. women are inherently corruptible.


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: creation [Re: yelimS]
    #3817878 - 02/22/05 06:49 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

My friend, women are certainly not made to be subordinate as men aren't. Nothing is better or worce than anything else, all is equal. Obviously the idea of inequality doesn't work for the amount of pride, controll and nasty things it causes. Reguardless of Cyber's avatar, he is right.

You should really evaluate your reason for putting women down. They are our friends, confidants, lovers, and equals. To make them any less would simply degrade the love.

These are enlightenned words and it goes the same for men, men should not be degraded as well as women.


--------------------
Agent 727
7


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OfflineCyber
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Re: creation [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3817882 - 02/22/05 06:50 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

hey cyber, have you taken a look at your avatar recently?




Yes, and she knows and is OK with me using it. (My GF)

Besides it is proof that god exists!
Who else could make such a perfect butt? (On a Grandmother!)  :grin:

I could replace it with a picture of my hairy butt. I am sure there are some women and a few men that would enjoy that. :crazy:


Edited by Cyber (02/22/05 06:51 PM)


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OfflineyelimS
bohem

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Posts: 717
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: creation [Re: Cyber]
    #3818067 - 02/22/05 07:21 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

come on, this is not about women and men being equal, i'm trying to find an opposite to genesis. now, in which religions are women created first?


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: creation [Re: yelimS]
    #3818296 - 02/22/05 07:57 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"Some myths speak about an original Mother of mankind, from whom all people originated. For example, the Akposso (of Togo) tell that when Uwolowu (God) made men, He first made a woman on the earth and bore with her the first child, the first human being (2). The Ibibio (of Nigeria) say that human beings came from the divinity Obumo, which was the son of the mother-divinity Eka-Abassi (3). It is told in eastern Africa about a virgin woman Ekao, who fell on earth from the sky and bore a son; the son got married to another woman and founded human society (4). Other examples are mentioned by Baumann (5). The main idea here, is to link human life directly with God through the woman. She is created by God, and in turn becomes the instrument of human life. She rightly becomes the one who passes on life. This is beautifully illustrated in a myth of the Tutsi (of Rwanda). They tell that the original pair of human beings was in paradise. But both the man and woman were sterile, they could not bear children. So they begged God to help them. God mixed clay with saliva and formed a small human figure. He instructed the woman to put the figure into a pot and keep it there for nine months. Every day the woman had to pour milk into the pot, mornings and evenings. She was to take out the figure only when it had grown limbs. So she followed these instructions and after nine months she pulled out what had now become a human being. God made other human beings according to this method, and these later increased on the earth (S). The pot is here a symbol of the womb of a mother, in which a baby takes shape and after nine months it is born. The woman shares directly with God in a personal way, the secrets and mysteries of life and birth. This role of the woman in sharing in the mysteries of life started already in the mythological time."

Ok, that is a little excerpt from this site: http://www.afrikaworld.net/afrel/atr-women.htm

I was glad to help you out.


--------------------
Agent 727
7


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: creation [Re: MAGnum]
    #3819648 - 02/22/05 11:47 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MAGnum said:
You should really evaluate your reason for putting women down. They are our friends, confidants, lovers, and equals. To make them any less would simply degrade the love.

These are enlightenned words and it goes the same for men, men should not be degraded as well as women.




Herro~ MAGnum...  :grin:  Much agreed, nobody should be degraded.... 
A person is a person is a brother is a sister....    :heart:

Love and p(i/e)ace to all people, and all people alike in one Super-Unification of Love, Love, Love, and more and more Love.... 
COOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo....
:heartpump:  :love: :inlove:  :heartpump:
:heartpump: :heartpump:  :heartpump:  :heartpump:  :heartpump:   






Disclaimer/FinePrint:
Man & Woman are all created equal just so long as...:
1) The dishes are done....
2) The house is cleaned....
3) The lawn is mowed....
4) The food is cooked....
5) The laundry is done.... 
...............Subsection-Addendum...5a:  Laundry must also be put away....
.......................................................5b:  Laundry must also smell good....
.......................................................5c:  Laundry must also be folded correctly and neatly done....
.......................................................5d:  Laundry must also be ironed if need be....
.......................................................5c:  Laundry must also have "TLC" added for "good measure"....

6)  She bows down and respects the I have allowed her to serve me....  MAN.....
   

:rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :grin:  :heart:  :lol: :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl: 
:grin:  :::::Sporting a "wife-beater" t-shirt proudly:::::  :grin:


This was all a J-O-K-E, as I don't feel some of those rules are fair....  Well, Eeeehhhh, nevermind.... :tongue:


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OfflineJCoke
dream observer
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Re: creation [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3820370 - 02/23/05 01:41 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Genesis states two versions of God creating man, first (Gen 1:26) where he make man in his image and likeness, and the second (Gen 2:7) where he makes us out of dust.

by image, I think he means he made us the reflection of his glory, are creativity, self-determination and are awareness of ones self is what we got from being created in his image.

by dust, means there's nothing fancy about the chemical elements that make up are bodies, "...and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life..." he gives us life, oxygen, water, food, everything are dirt bodies need.

genesis is made up of several scriptures, it repeats creation of man twice probally because they came from two deffrent scriptures.

alot of people wonder where abel got his wife, to me it's simple, the same way adam got eve...so i suspect anyways.

man and wife are equal, they become one flesh, there one and the same, (which is why divorce, other than for the reason of adultry, is sin, and remarriage = aldultry)


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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Invisiblewishcouldeletethis
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Re: creation *DELETED* [Re: JCoke]
    #3820635 - 02/23/05 02:42 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by wishcouldeletethis

Reason for deletion: k



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OfflineCyber
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Re: creation [Re: wishcouldeletethis]
    #3821082 - 02/23/05 08:28 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

puritybinge said:
the reason it may possibly seem women are inferior through out history is the fact that birth control has only come about in the last what hundred years?




:lol: :lol:

The last 100 years? Where did you get that?

The Greeks used Silphium, known commonly as giant fennel. These plants were known to have contraceptive and abortifacient properties. The plant was honored on a four-drachma Cyrenian coin showing a seated woman touching the plant with one hand while pointing to her genitals with the other hand. The demand for the plant was so great that by the third or fourth centuries, Silphium was extinct. Related plants survived, but were less effective.

The ancient Egyptians also practiced birth control. A medical document from 1500 BC lists substances that it claims 'stops pregnancy.' According to the papyrus, unspecified amounts of acacia gum, dates, and an unidentified plant were mixed with plant fiber and honey and formed into a pessary (vaginal suppository).

Condoms were used by the Egyptians as far back as 1,000 B.C.

The earliest evidence of condom use in Europe are scenes from cave paintings at Combarelles in France. Dated 100 to 200 AD.

The first known published description and trials regarding prophylactic condom use were recorded by the Italian Gabrielle Fallopius in the 1500's. He claimed to have invented a sheath made of linen and conducted trials amongst 1,100 men using the condom - none of who became infected with syphilis.


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OfflineCrazyBusiness
Stranger thanyou think
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Re: creation [Re: JCoke]
    #3821105 - 02/23/05 08:47 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

JCoke said:
Genesis states two versions of God creating man, first (Gen 1:26) where he make man in his image and likeness, and the second (Gen 2:7) where he makes us out of dust.

by image, I think he means he made us the reflection of his glory, are creativity, self-determination and are awareness of ones self is what we got from being created in his image.

by dust, means there's nothing fancy about the chemical elements that make up are bodies, "...and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life..." he gives us life, oxygen, water, food, everything are dirt bodies need.

genesis is made up of several scriptures, it repeats creation of man twice probally because they came from two deffrent scriptures.

alot of people wonder where abel got his wife, to me it's simple, the same way adam got eve...so i suspect anyways.

man and wife are equal, they become one flesh, there one and the same, (which is why divorce, other than for the reason of adultry, is sin, and remarriage = aldultry)




Thats a very insightful and interesting take on the two Genesis accounts, and I'll be sure to bring it up next time I'm discussing something alike with someone. Its been a point of argument a few times, and new points of view are always welcome.

Abel's mystery family is also something I've thought on, and I've come to the same conclusion, that the book simply doesnt mention that after original creation men and women were created in some population, as all created organisms must have been, or many mammals would have been destroyed through inbreeding, pack and colony animals helpless because there were only two, etc.

Your point on adultery, I wont touch.. The bible, to me, is an interesting storybook with some history behind it, nothing more, so its rules are not of any consequence in my mind.


--------------------
...in my opinion

Life's too short, man.. Life's too short. Dont hate me, and I wont put space between us. Dont lie to me, and I wont dislike you. Keep an open mind, and I'll love you.

My advice of the week(do this, you'll like it): listen to Mahogany Rush.

Representing Beatiful British Columbian classic dank. Just think, Columbia for coke, British Columbia for buds. truth


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Invisiblewishcouldeletethis
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Re: creation *DELETED* [Re: CrazyBusiness]
    #3825262 - 02/24/05 12:53 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by wishcouldeletethis

Reason for deletion: k



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Offlinegnrm23
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ge/gaia earth goddess [Re: wishcouldeletethis]
    #3826584 - 02/24/05 10:53 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)



--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: ge/gaia earth goddess [Re: gnrm23]
    #3826598 - 02/24/05 10:57 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

& dinnae ferget ye all:

lilith, adam's first mate:
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mlilith.html


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: creation [Re: JCoke]
    #3826606 - 02/24/05 11:00 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

oh and i think some of the egyptian creation stories have a female creatrix...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineCyber
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Re: creation [Re: wishcouldeletethis]
    #3826853 - 02/24/05 12:19 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

puritybinge said:
cyber laugh it up, your point is rediculous, so in the 1500's a dude somewhere in the world had an "experimental" trial with a thousand people with some kind of condom, great happy for ya.





Ok lets clear a few things up. Lets just look at condoms

1700's

The first published use of the world 'condum' was in a 1706 poem.

Dingwall EJ. (1953) 'Early contraceptive sheaths' BMJ,

It has also been suggested that Condom was a doctor in the time of Charles II. It is believed that he invented the device to help the king to prevent the birth of more illegitimate children.

Lewis M. 'A Brief history of condoms' in Mindel A. (2000) 'Condoms', BMJ

Even the most famous lover of all, Casanova, was using the condom as a birth control as well as against infection.

Dingwall EJ. (1953) 'Early contraceptive sheaths' BMJ,

Condoms made out of animal intestines began to be available. However, they were quite expensive and the unfortunate result was that they were often reused. This type of condom was described at the time as "an armour against pleasure, and a cobweb against infection".

In the second half of the 1700's, a trade in handmade condoms thrived in London and some shops where producing handbills and advertisements of condoms.

Himes N.E. (1936) 'Medical history of contraception'

1800's

The use of condoms was affected by technological, economic and social development in Europe and the US in 1800s.

Condom manufacturing was revolutionised by the discovery of rubber vulcanisation by Goodyear (founder of the tyre company) and Hancock. This meant that is was possible to mass produce rubber goods including condoms quickly and cheaply. Vulcanisation is a process, which turns the rubber into a strong elastic material.

Durex website: History of Condoms www.durex.com

In 1861,the first advertisement for condoms was published in an American newspaper when The New York Times printed an ad. for 'Dr. Power's French Preventatives.'

In 1873, the Comstock Law was passed. Named after Anthony Comstock, the Comstock Law made illegal the advertising of any sort of birth control, and it also allowed the postal service to confiscate condoms sold through the mail.

1900's

In 1919, Frederick Killian initiated hand-dipping from natural rubber latex in Ohio. The latex condoms had the advantage of ageing less quickly and being thinner and odourless. These new type of condoms enjoyed a great expansion of sales. By the mid-1930s, the fifteen largest makers in the U.S. were producing 1.5 million condoms a day.

Lewis M. 'A Brief history of condoms' in Mindel A. (2000)

Well there is 300 years of condoms.

Quote:


the Egyptians and all these other few examples, what do you think these things were mass produced? and that everyone could afford them??





You said "fact that birth control has only come about in the last what hundred years?"

Birth Control has been around for thousands of years. Most workable birth control was in common knowledge and use. Hell Condoms have been mass produced for over 200 years. The common man would use sheep or goat intestines tied at one end. The ancient Egyptians used an in uteri mix of crocodile dung that is known to work as a spermicide.

Quote:


or that a guy given his position in society wouldn't just slap his bitch an tell her to bend over...yea





Depends on the guy, another form of birth control, used by the common man/woman was to nurse the children for 3 to 4 years. While nursing a woman does not ovulate. Although natural it is a form of birth control.

Quote:


there may have been "some" people who experimented and used birth control but by no means was of any significant impact on any civilization even in which these tests took place, even today it is by chance that when u are put in a position to get some ass that u have a condom and dont just say fuck it an go for the ol' pull out and pray.





That may be your method. Most of us have more respect for our bodies and our lovers.

Quote:


The pill and condom have in fact only been available to the mass public for roughly the last hundred years and that is pushing it, anyhow you are very antagonistic and i would throw poop at you if we met. though i am glad u took the time to look up all your facts that is uber impressive.




The Pill, yes it has only been around for about 40 years. It was an invention of the 60's The condom has been in mass production for several centuries. Heck the Comstock Law was passed over 120 years ago.

I do not intend to be antagonistic. I just find miss information to be a real problem. Whether it is miss-information about drugs or miss-information about sex. The truth is the truth for thousands of years man has saute to reduce the number of children they have. Why? Because those children put a burden on the family for food, shelter, and time. It is also not the reason it would "seem women are inferior through out history."


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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