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OfflineMig
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Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 23
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
What causes aborts?
    #3691081 - 01/27/05 11:30 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

The reason I ask is that many of my cakes (PF Tek) will sprout numerous pins, but will generally only have one mushroom grow to full size, and all the other pins end up aborting (a perfect example is my bulbous growth cake). I'm puzzled because if the environment was at fault (too low/high RH or temperature), why would a single mushroom flourish but all the rest abort? This leads me to wonder just why aborts happen to begin with...

And before I get the obligatory "search before you ask stupid questions" reply, I did search. I found tons of threads regarding aborts, but none that really explained what causes them.

Any insight to this, or links to threads that my searches didn't find, would be most appreciated.


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Offlinephantasm
DXM GURU
Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 801
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Re: What causes aborts? [Re: Mig]
    #3691153 - 01/27/05 11:38 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

to little Rh, to much water, not enough FAE, too low temps, too high temps, not enough nutrients basicly anything that makes your mushrooms unhappy

your single mushroom question is reasonable and while it does not make much sense some mushrooms are just stronger than others its like asking why one rose wilts before the others

-mike


--------------------
Only God Grows Amanita Muscaria


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OfflineFungus_Farmer
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 158
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: What causes aborts? [Re: Mig]
    #3691159 - 01/27/05 11:40 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I don't have an answer for you but I too have done a ton of research and haven't found any answers concerning aborts. (just backing you up here, and hoping for an answer as well.)


--------------------
Excerpt from one of my textbooks:
Therefore, between a then and its matching else, there cannot be an if statement without an else. Statements must be distinguished between those that are matched and those that are unmatched, where unmatched statements are else-less ifs and all other statements are matched.
I wonder if that would make more sense if I was tripping when I read it.


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Offline4hodmt
AspiringMycologist

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 759
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Re: What causes aborts? [Re: phantasm]
    #3691223 - 01/27/05 11:47 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

phantasm said:
basicly anything that makes your mushrooms unhappy


-mike






yeah, too little/much humidity, water, air exchange, nutrients, temperature, light. and that dosnt even include contams


--------------------
all posts made by 4hodmt are entirely ficticious. the user 4hodmt has noa ffiliation with any company, or organization; any endorsements made by 4hodmt are to be considered a joke. any similarity between a person (or story) 4hodmt is talking about is entirely happenstance. 4hodmt is not to be taken seriously under any circumstance. furthermore, he does not know what he is talking about. Please ignore anything 4hodmt has to say.


_______

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Actually I'm not from the future, but I did lived there for a while."

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OfflinePupenhause
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Registered: 09/09/04
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Re: What causes aborts? [Re: 4hodmt]
    #3691376 - 01/28/05 12:08 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

my first flush was nearly all aborts. but 2nd and 3rd had lots of big yummy mushrooms.


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OfflineTweexican
Clit Commander
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Registered: 11/06/03
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Re: What causes aborts? [Re: Pupenhause]
    #3691713 - 01/28/05 01:21 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

i think everyone is really wondering what to do about aborts.


--------------------


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OfflineCPT_InSaNo
Just anotherfreak in thefreak kingdom

Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 380
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: What causes aborts? [Re: Tweexican]
    #3691847 - 01/28/05 02:12 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tweexican said:
i think everyone is really wondering what to do about aborts.





EAT THEM!!!!!  :crazy2: :crazy2: :crazy2: :mushroom2: :rocket:


--------------------
"We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been. Spiral out. Keep going, going..."
Tool, Lateralus




Anything in my above post is 100% fictional.

R.I.P. Hunter S. Thompson


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OfflineTweexican
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Re: What causes aborts? [Re: CPT_InSaNo]
    #3692004 - 01/28/05 03:12 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

no no, not what to do WITH them, what to do about them. do you pick them early? do you hope for the best? anyone?


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InvisibleSHiZNO
-

Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 1,467
Re: What causes aborts? [Re: Tweexican]
    #3692021 - 01/28/05 03:17 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

unwanted pregnancy


pick aborts before they rot (cap will start turning black)


--------------------
...


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OfflineTweexican
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Re: What causes aborts? [Re: SHiZNO]
    #3692079 - 01/28/05 03:45 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

thx


--------------------


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Offlinephatboy
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Registered: 01/27/05
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Re: What causes aborts? [Re: Tweexican]
    #3692314 - 01/28/05 05:45 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

so, is it ok to eat aborts???


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Offlinegsmith
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Registered: 12/07/04
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Re: What causes aborts? [Re: phatboy]
    #3692553 - 01/28/05 09:32 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

yes it's ok to eat aborts. please do... some people claim they're more potent than full grown shrooms. I myself have never noticed the difference.

When growing mushrooms indoors, they require a very delicately balanced micro-climate. Any change or deficiency in that climate can cause the mushroom to just stop growing. aborts can happen for any of the reasons listed above, and without a better description of your grow setup it would be hard for any of us to pin point a reason. aborts can also be caused by the strain itself. I just grew a thai strain that aborted more than half of the pins. It also had a ton of fat asses. I had one shroom that was wider than it was tall... but man did those shrooms kick ass.

but just to take a wild stab at a guess here... since you said you were using pf cakes, my guess is that your RH is too low or you didn't have a proper moisture content when you made the cake and the pins just ran out of steam.


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------
this is a signature


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
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Trusted Cultivator
Re: What causes aborts? [Re: gsmith]
    #3693021 - 01/28/05 12:35 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

The verm looks a bit dry to me...I'd say not enough water in the substrate or not enough misting...


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineHambo
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Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 497
Loc: UK
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Re: What causes aborts? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3693112 - 01/28/05 01:02 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Maybe you could try picking any mushrooms that look like theyre going to go supersize and hog all the water/nutes for the flush, before all the other pins turn into aborts? Maybe that mushhroom is using all the energy the myc can produce.

I dunno. But if you did that and they still all aborted, you wouldn't even have the big shroom after.

As it happens, this occured on the few cakes I bothered trying to grow from on the mex strain. But not so with the Thai PB strain I am currently playing with. (shrug)


--------------------


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
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Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: What causes aborts? [Re: Hambo]
    #3693216 - 01/28/05 01:25 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Switching strains can help sometimes... They lied when they said all cubies are the same. All cubies will give you different results though so dont expect to find out which strain will work best for you without actually trying them all.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineMig
Stranger
Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 23
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: What causes aborts? [Re: Mig]
    #3693435 - 01/28/05 02:33 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for all suggestions folks! However, I'm not really trying to diagnose my particular setup, but merely trying to understand the cause of aborts in general. Kind of like "long skinny stems are almost always caused by too little O2" or "split caps are almost always caused by too low of RH".

In any case, the concensus seems to be that aborts are not caused by anything in particular, and can be caused by anything. Would this be a correct statement?

Also, if the conditions were so far from optimal to cause massive aborts, is it reasonable that one mushroom would be able to flourish? I would *think* if they were that far off, none would survive... but I don't know that for sure.


Edited by Mig (01/28/05 08:50 PM)


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 4,898
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Re: What causes aborts? [Re: Mig]
    #3693633 - 01/28/05 03:23 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I've had that problem before. Seems like it has to do w/ myc. growth I would think. Typically when my rh is to low i get split caps, and not a lot of abhort, i do however pick everything off as soon as several or most mushies mature. So rh hasnt really effected mine.

My cakes get rhizomorphic (Creep strain) and for some reason the don't produce many mature mushroons, I do however get lots and lots of abhorts.

A foaf's cakes (malabar) get really fluffy, so it's not agressive growth and takes a bit longer to colonize than mine. Well he's had beautiful pinsets and minimal abhorts. I'm not sure how myc. growth in it's early stages would cause thing but I'm thinking that maybe when you get rhizo's, it makes the cake lose some energy and maybe that's why your yields can't fully develop, but that's just what I've noticed and it may vary for others, just my .o2..

-Gl

-Gnostic


Edited by IGnosticAbhorI (01/28/05 03:24 PM)


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OfflineFungus_Farmer
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Registered: 01/13/05
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Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: What causes aborts? [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #3695186 - 01/28/05 09:25 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

My cakes get rhizomorphic (Creep strain) and for some reason the don't produce many mature mushroons, I do however get lots and lots of abhorts.

A foaf's cakes (malabar) get really fluffy, so it's not agressive growth and takes a bit longer to colonize than mine. Well he's had beautiful pinsets and minimal abhorts. I'm not sure how myc. growth in it's early stages would cause thing but I'm thinking that maybe when you get rhizo's, it makes the cake lose some energy and maybe that's why your yields can't fully develop, but that's just what I've noticed and it may vary for others, just my .o2..




That's a damn interesting hypothesis, one of the most original, insightful comments I've seen on this forum. Makes so much sense, in fact, that I'd be surprised if it weren't true. This is something worth investigating, for anyone who's interested. If we shroomers of today can figure it out, then the shroomers a couple years from now will have one more useful bit of knowledge that we weren't lucky enough to start out with, and were forced to learn the hard way.


--------------------
Excerpt from one of my textbooks:
Therefore, between a then and its matching else, there cannot be an if statement without an else. Statements must be distinguished between those that are matched and those that are unmatched, where unmatched statements are else-less ifs and all other statements are matched.
I wonder if that would make more sense if I was tripping when I read it.


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OfflineShroomwhisperer
Wanabe
Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 12
Loc: South
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: What causes aborts? [Re: Mig]
    #3695915 - 01/29/05 12:39 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Great job posting the grow log!

From the pic's I'd say the cakes do not have enough water to support proper fruiting. From my friend's experience, you can not over water mushrooms, my friend keeps his cakes in a half inch of standing water and mist twice a day.

Given enough water reserve and humidity, the main reason for the entire cake to abort is a bad strain, senesence. However, there are many variables. Your strain looks fine. To answer your question would require a thesis. Most strains produce abundant aborts even thought they fruit very well.

The old PF strain would pin above 95% RH, but abort unless fruiting below 95% RH. EQ's love to fruit at 95% RH+.

Put your cakes in standing water, mist 2 to 4 times a day as required, spray the top of the cake to saturation twice a day, stand back and wait.


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: What causes aborts? [Re: Shroomwhisperer]
    #3695944 - 01/29/05 12:47 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Too much water= Contams and overlay during fruiting...

And I agree about the variables but bad strain? I don't think that hypothesis is a very good one. Unless you're talking about it being contamed. or something to that effect.

And put your cakes in standing water?!?!?!...I don't mean to sound like a dick but if you're going to do that then why not throw them in some green mold while you're at it. Standing water has BAD written all over it. But, if that's what you think will help, go for it. Good luck on w/e you decide to do. just my .o2..I'll search for a link in a sec. to help further prove what i'm saying, Gl


-Gnostic

Edit: Here's that info. I promised. It's located here inside of "The Magic Mushrooms Grower's Guide"

Link: http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/3372/sty/print/spl/0/par/3372/

I've also heard of some people using standing water, but they Always had a mixed solution w/ h202, but it's wasn't really worth it from what i've seen. Enjoy :cheers:



Edited by IGnosticAbhorI (01/29/05 12:57 AM)


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