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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3577951 -

In the absence of the subtle aspects of communication such as body language and speech intonation, when reading what others say on the internet we typically impute upon the words we read what we ourselves would have meant if we had chosen the same words.

Very often, we can learn about ourselves by observing how it is we respond to our experiences. Before we can make such observations, though, we must make a very important and very difficult step. It is necessary to accept as a matter of faith that what appears to us is not necessarily what is, that we are as involved in generating our own experiences as the circumstances and situations which seem to assemble themselves before our eyes.

It is not enough to simply know this, to bear the notion within our vast cache of mundane tidbits. We must actually live out of that space; we must know it in our heart as much as in our mind. Only when our understanding that what appears often differs from what actually is has totally replaced our habitutated assumption that what we perceive is what's true will we be able to discover that we can improve our experiences by improving the condition of our mind.

It requires a certain amount of humility even to consider making such a step, and a certain amount of faith in the benefits of moving in this direction. Perhaps more importantly, it requires tremendous self-confidence, because when we suspend our assumptions about what we experience and entertain the idea that alternative experiences are always avaliable, it destroys the investment we have in the continuity -- whether it be positive or negative continuity -- of our day to day life. When it comes to matters such as these, if we lack humility, self-confidence, and faith, we are only able to find relief in the assurance that every day will be not uncomfortably different from the one previous.

And that is a kind of stagnation. Stagnation is not congruent with the nature of things; in nature life flourishes on diversity. Like any other natural system, the mind flourishes in diverse conditions and becomes subject to illness when conditions are stagnate. In an ecosystem, the bad effects of stagnation might manifest in the form of a hyper-susceptablity to degenerative disease. In the mind, the bad effects of stagnation might manifest in the form of anger, self-absorption, jealousy, bitterness, arguments, or in shutting others out, perhaps to such an extent that one might actually become psychotic, destroyed by the turbulence of their own mind. In an ecosystem, the good effects of diversity might manifest in the development of stronger, more intelligent species, or in the sustainability of the environment. In the mind, the good effects of diversity might manifest in the form of wisdom, bliss and contentment, perhaps to such an extent that one might actually attain perfect accord with the ultimate nature of things, in full enlightenment.

The effects of stagnate or diverse conditions vary only in proportion to the complexity and sophistication of the systems to which these conditions apply.


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3578110 -

Quote:
Is this an observation based on objective criteria, or is this a subjective projection/observation?




In many cases it was an objective fact because Swami would claim certain things that had never been truly proven or disproven so therefore he was trying to pass off his subjective beliefs as objective fact!  :smile:


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Always Smi2le

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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3578212 -

fireworks_god said:
Believe what you want to believe, but my participation here has signfigantly been reduced, to the point where I am not really active at all...


Um, you haven't posted here much for a long while.  Why should we suddenly contribute your absense to Swami's ban?  :grin:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: Frog]
    #3578861 -

one do not reflect others, on add to them? :P


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: Gomp]
    #3578924 -

Wow. This whole thread where I am taken apart and nobody takes the token effort of informing me I'm being quoted and dismissed for my words.

I posted my own opinion, let that be clear. My reward is a mantra of the same questions repeated over and over again and now my words are disagreeingly dissected in another thread behind my back.

Let me ask you guys a question:

WHAT DO YOU WANT?
No arguing or reasoning or "what he said" or have-you nots: post your complete, full and true opinion of what you feel the Management should do in regards to the Swami matter, nothing more or less then your undiluted uncensored opinion about how the management should profile itself and why this should be so. And in a seperate column, strictly apart from the "should" post your full and uncensored opinion about how the Management is handling it now and why the Management in your view chooses to do this. In one post. Please.

.


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Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: Asante]
    #3578996 -

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Wow. This whole thread where I am taken apart and nobody takes the token effort of informing me I'm being quoted and dismissed for my words.


Actually, while my thread did quote your words, it was not in any way focused on you yourself, and nowhere were you dismissed for your words. In fact, nowhere in the thread did I even refer to you, except perhaps indirectly when the ideas I expressed in my thread were linked to the recent ordeal that served as an analogy for said expression of ideas. As this was the case, that my thread was not in any way centered around or addressed to you, I felt no obligation to inform you of the posting of my thread, and I also feel no regret for not doing so.

Quote:
I posted my own opinion, let that be clear.


Obviously, it is clear, as it is my understanding is that every post is the opinion of the person who posted it. :tongue: :wink:

Quote:
My reward is a mantra of the same questions repeated over and over again and now my words are disagreeingly dissected in another thread behind my back.


My post, in no part of it, referred to the actual content of your words, they were taken out of context of that post as an example of an idea that I was expressing. I was not personally aware of the location of your back when I made the post, as it did not concern me in any manner, as my post has nothing directly to do with you.

Quote:
WHAT DO YOU WANT?


To express ideas of a spiritual nature that I realized from and related to the occurence of the Swami ordeal. I do not want to discuss anything concerning the Swami ordeal itself in this thread.

Quote:
No arguing or reasoning or "what he said" or have-you nots: post your complete, full and true opinion of what you feel the Management should do in regards to the Swami matter, nothing more or less then your undiluted uncensored opinion about how the management should profile itself and why this should be so. And in a seperate column, strictly apart from the "should" post your full and uncensored opinion about how the Management is handling it now and why the Management in your view chooses to do this. In one post. Please.


I have no interest in doing so, as this thread does not directly relate to the Swami ordeal itself, only to spiritual ideas gained by me as a result of the Swami ordeal. As my post does not pertain to the Swami ordeal itself, and is not involved with actual details and happenings of the Swami ordeal, there is absolutely no reason for me to follow your suggestion, especially as it is off-topic for the discussion in this particular thread.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: Frog]
    #3579003 -

Frog said:
Um, you haven't posted here much for a long while.  Why should we suddenly contribute your absense to Swami's ban?  :grin:


I admit I don't quite understand your question.... is it worded correctly?  :confused:
:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3579147 -

Quote:
I have no interest in doing so, as this thread does not directly relate to the Swami ordeal itself, only to spiritual ideas gained by me as a result of the Swami ordeal. As my post does not pertain to the Swami ordeal itself, and is not involved with actual details and happenings of the Swami ordeal, there is absolutely no reason for me to follow your suggestion, especially as it is off-topic for the discussion in this particular thread.


I believe this is what the misunderstanding with 'management" stems from, an inability to separate the event from the person.If your concerned over the event then you are making a "swami" thread.It seems as though a severe myopic view over this issue has taken hold.
Why is it so hard to see the underlying current which this is REALLY about?
The original ban was an opinion not an infraction,that was the sock puppet.
Can't you all see that being banned on opinion rather than FACTS engenders a reaction from fiercely opinionated and self realized individuals? this talk os Swami waging Psyops on the members is indeed paranoid ,and an OPINION not a FACT.The members here who are upset are so because of the uncertainty of "variable"rules subject to the opinion of the authority. Management has the OPINION that Swami is "hacking members minds".With such an ability why is he not a billionaire who rules the world? Or is it the "minds" he "hacked" needed a dose of reality? Anyway it is all BS as this is a internet forum with only the most tenuous links to day to day existance.I hope that YOU Wiccan can see some of this and let it go.Internet arguements are all posture and fluff, Now there is a lesson for the whole Shroomery.
WR:wexican:


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To old for this place

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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: Asante]
    #3579181 -

I will tell you what should be done. Allow people to speak their mind, but without hate or abuse. Disagreement or sarcasm or percieved hidden meanings are NOT abuse. Let people freely exchange ideas so that growth occurrs. Don't trim back the tree so much that it dies. Note this quote concerning conflict.

"Those who profess to favor freedom, yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightening. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."
Frederick Douglass

That statement, while it is a bit overblown seeming (which is why I like it), applies. I guess I could go post my BS elsewhere, but before December I had grown fond of this place. If it becomes totally sterile here I'll go elsewhere...

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (01/04/05 03:03 PM)

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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: whiterasta]
    #3579196 -

Excellant post, by the way.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3579408 -

Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Excellant post, by the way.

Yeah, excellent.
He said alot that hasn't been said at least 3 times already, eh?

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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: wandrnshaman]
    #3579484 -

Do I detect baiting....where's a moderator when you need one???!!! Come on...be real...commenting on my complement is ridiculous.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3579577 -

Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
I will tell you what should be done. Allow people to speak their mind, but without hate or abuse.



I agree fully. And what are the determining factors of that perceived hate or abuse? Are they objective?

Quote:
whiterasta said:
Why is it so hard to see the underlying current which this is REALLY about?
The original ban was an opinion not an infraction,that was the sock puppet.
Can't you all see that being banned on opinion rather than FACTS engenders a reaction from fiercely opinionated and self realized individuals?



The underlying current this was REALLY about? You mean the one in S&P where members would post their subjective OPINIONS and EXPERIENCES and be confronted by "logicians" who demand objective FACTS. Where this little game of prove it or you're a deluded schizo is played? Where posts are ripped apart piece by piece to find every FLAW in someones THEORY that can be exploited or twist words around and take them out of context to suit your needs? That is projecting your reality.

This is about actions. This is a Spirituality AND Philosophy board.. where people should be able to express themselves freely without being challenged constantly. Of course everyone should be able to express their OPINION freely, but not if it means spreading discontent, condescending attitudes, hatred, bigotry, dangerous beliefs, nasty skepticism, or anything that contributes to the downfall of the forum. If you want to share you should do it in a respectful manner. If you want to "challenge someone's beliefs system and prove them wrong" you do that in a respectful manner too. It goes both ways.

I see a lot of people saying why don't you just let people speak freely. Exactly.. that's just it.
People want to speak freely. A lot of people stopped posting on this forum because they could not post without having their threads torn apart or degrading into petty debate. Now the people who tear threads apart are saying "make an alternate forum for the S&P wussies who don't want their posts challenged".. and since the swami incident, many of them are threatening to leave, as if the essence of the S&P balance lies in their presence. Honestly, I think some of you are missing the point.

I'll tell you there's a lesson in here somewhere for everyone. Tolerance seems to be one of the big points, but there's another virtue that is being ignored. Respect. Respect of each other, your fellow posters.. weirdo and skeptic alike. Respect of each others threads, respect of each others ideas. Disagreement and sarcasm are not abuse, no.. but when they are repeated over and over and over, in various forms and extremities.. it forms a pattern that is not progressive, but instead one that creates tension and factions. The key here is in learning to respectfully disagree. Sometimes it's just better.. if you can't say something nice, then don't say it at all.\



Now. It's my belief that on a certain level, we are all one being. One essence.
Creating these borders, drawing lines in the sand, taking sides.. does no one any good. It's not Us vs Them and it never was. It's about the general welfare of this forum, which imo, is not very good. We want peace.

Now, we can take sides and wage psychological warfare.. or come together as brothers and fellow humans of earth and figure out a pro-active solution that benefits everyone. Which does everyone prefer?


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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here *DELETED* [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3579650 -

Post deleted by wandrnshaman

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: wandrnshaman]
    #3579714 -

i have a bellybutton!


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd


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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: incubaby_421]
    #3579855 -

Swami is no god to be talked about for this damn long. & he CERTAINLY is no Buddha. Now THIS is what I would label ridiculous. There are way more interesting people here at the shroomery than Swami, tsk tsk. He's just a guy with some opinions, no saint, no hero...just a dude that has received WAY too much attention.


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mmmm, spacecake

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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: RainbowDrops]
    #3580389 -

Swami will be back very soon. Perhaps we should wait 'till he comes back, and then, have a productive discussion about his banning.

I will gladly participate in productive discussion between two parties who BOTH wish to make peace...

Of course, a LOT of that depends on Swami's actions when he comes back.

Everything that happens, happens for a reason.

Stay tuned so we ALL can discover why this bullshit happened.

I promise, most of it isn't as full of shit as it seems.

Everybody's points about Swami have been noted by the Staff and Admins.

We better understand the things that led to the first ban, and we are actively working to prevent any mistakes that were made, from happening again.

Sometimes it takes an unfair action to learn the hardest lessons.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: Shroomism]
    #3580533 -

Shroomism said:
This is about actions. This is a Spirituality AND Philosophy board.. where people should be able to express themselves freely without being challenged constantly.


spirituality is pure belief and shouldnt be challenged
philosophy requires logical assumptions and needs to be challenged
these are in the same forum
where is the line between S & P

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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: Rose]
    #3580577 -

I side with Cervantes in that I too want to participate in uncovering matters and hopefully resolving it to the greatest degree satisfaction that can be achieved.

As said in another thread which was closed, in my personal view prematurely, I stand for the best interest of the Community above the interest of the Management and am willing to take any sanction to make sure the bestinterest of the community is being met, even if that should result in a bannable offense.

In return I ask for respect in the debate when it unfolds as every attempt at balanced discussion has spun out of control before.

But, this is a regurgitation of what I already said in the respectful part of that thread.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: Hey Everyone, Click Here [Re: fresh313]
    #3580593 -

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3528405/an/0/page/0


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Fiddlesticks.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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