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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Ask a Hippie...
    #3270029 - 10/24/04 02:49 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I figure there are about 15 or so on these boards with maybe 4 or 5 on S&P. So if you have any questions about the '60s/'70s, the psychedelic era, Orange Sunshine, the potency of pot, The Doors, Civil Rights, Haight-Ashbury, anti-war protests or the original Star Trek, ask now while we are still kicking.

Save a dinosaur...  :heart:

P.S. If I don't have the answer, I will make one up.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibletrendalM
King of Asides
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,978
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: Swami]
    #3270054 - 10/24/04 02:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Please don't just make one up, I have a serious question!

Do you think the atmosphere that fostered the civil rights movement and the general unrest felt by most youth of the time is something that will be repeated? Was it a special circumstances of the times (having 50% of the American population under the age of 18 in 1960) or is it something that happens whenever an entire generation feels oppressed?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: trendal]
    #3270081 - 10/24/04 03:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This is conjecture, but much of the change came about from the great relief and new found prosperity following WWII. Amercia was predominantly happy and black Amercia, having gone through the same trials and sacrifices of the conflict, wanted their piece of the pie. People became more aware of how the hatred of the Jews hurt the world and some forward thinkers realized that the social divide in America was not that different and set about changing things.

Then you had the major influences of jazz and the beat generation bringing different social classes and races together along with Watts, Huxley,Kerowac, Watson, Kesey and Leary all presenting new ideas (to the west anyway) along with new tools for transforming consciousness. Add to this mix the electric guitar and the morphing of R&B and gospel into R&R and itnorducing this to white mainstream society. Add a new generation of idealist college students wanting something better and there you have it.

No, this will never happen again, but new and yet unforeseen things hopefully will. It was a time of great promise that never fully materialized.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: Swami]
    #3270177 - 10/24/04 03:31 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

"It was a time of great promise that never fully materialized."

One of my favorite parts from Thompson's "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" deals with this. At first it makes me wish I lived back then, to be a part of it all. By the end I am left wondering why. Why didn't things fully materialize?

"San Francisco in the middle sixties was a very special time and place to be a part of. Maybe it meant something. Maybe not, in the long run...but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of the world. Whatever it meat...
History is hard to know, because of all the hired bullshit, but even without being sure of "history" it seems entirely reasonable to think that every now and then the energy of a whole generation comes to a head in a long fine flash, for reasons that nobody really understands at the time - and which never explain, in retrospect, what actually happened.
My central memory of that time seems to hang on one or five or maybe forty nights - or very early mornings - when I left the Fillmore half-crazy and, instead of going home, aimed the big 650 Lightning across the Bay Bridge at a hundred miles an hour wearing L.L. Bean shorts and a Butte sheepherder's jacket...booming through the Treasure Island tunnel at the lights of Oakland and Berkeley and Richmond, not quite sure which turn-off to take when I got to the other end (always stalling at the toll-gate, too twisted to find neutral while I fumbled for change)...but being absolutely certain that no matter which way I went I would come to a place where people were just as high and wild as I was: No doubt at all about that...
There was madness in any direction, at any hour. If not across the Bay, then up the Golden Gate or down 101 to Los Altos or La Honda...You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning...
And that, I think, was the handle - that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn't need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fighting - on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave...
So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back." p.66-68

Why do you think things never fully materialized, Swami? Why, where, and how did the wave break?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: trendal]
    #3270224 - 10/24/04 03:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

There was a sense of something "about wonderful to happen". That is not mere poetic hyperbole.

I have no clear answer, but I would guess a few things. The reality of still having to make ends meet was a huge "bummer". One could drift for a few years, but then what happened when you got your little hippie chick pregnant? Leary opened the door, but offered no follow through.

There was a huge sense of confusion. "OK, we see things differently, now what?!"

There was no true leader, no messiah if you will, but hundreds of wannabe gurus, each with his own idea of where to go. The same ego games were present as always.

We needed a goal or a plan. Once the unifying protest against the war was successful, the cohesion was lost.

Some here get a glimpse of that era when they get that first psychedelic rush then later realize that nothing is "solved" by these insights. Life continues as before.

Recreating the Garden of Eden is hard, focused work with NO shortcuts.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineSource
Remainder of anUnbalancedEquation
Male

Registered: 07/28/03
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Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: trendal]
    #3270271 - 10/24/04 03:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This is from the script, but I'm pretty sure it is close or exact to Thompson's original work. Maybe this sheds some light...

...We are all wired into a survival
trip now. No more of the speed
that fueled that 60's. That was
the fatal flaw in Tim Leary's trip.
He crashed around America selling
"consciousness expansion" without
ever giving a thought to the grim
meat-hook realities that were lying
in wait for all the people who took
him seriously.

All those pathetically eager acid
freaks who thought they could buy
Peace and Understanding for three
bucks a hit. But their loss and
failure is ours too. What Leary
took down with him was the central
illusion of a whole life-style that
he helped create...

RISING HIGHER -- THE WALLS OF THE ROOM APPEAR TO BY 20 TO 30
FEET HIGH. DUKE SEEMS TO BE AT THE BOTTOM OF A WELL... THE
CAMERA RISES UP THROUGH BROKEN TIMBERS...

DUKE
... a generation of permanent
cripples, failed seekers, who never
understood the essential old-mystic
fallacy of the Acid Culture: the
desperate assumption that somebody...
or at least some force -- is
tending the light at the end of the
tunnel.


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What you're searching for is what's searching.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: Source]
    #3270284 - 10/24/04 03:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Sounds about what I was saying, albeit using better prose.


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OfflineSource
Remainder of anUnbalancedEquation
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Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: Swami]
    #3270303 - 10/24/04 04:05 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Ha ha ha...I was working on posting it while you were composing your last response, but yeah sounds like the same reaons.

It is really quite depressing to me. '...the desperate assumption that somebody...or at least some force -- is tending the light at the end of the tunnel.'


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What you're searching for is what's searching.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: Source]
    #3270333 - 10/24/04 04:13 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Here's the same quote, directly from the book, in its original form:

"Indeed. But what is sane? Especially here in 'our own country' - in this doomstruck era of Nixon. We are all wired into a survival trip now. No more of the speed that fuled the Sixties. Uppers are going out of style. This was the fatal flaw in Tim Leary's trip. He crashed around America selling 'consciousness expansion' without ever giving a thought to the grim meat-hook realities that were lying in wait for all the people who took him too seriously. After West Point and the Priesthood, LSD must have seemed entirely logical to him...but there is not much satisfaction in knowing that he blew it very badly for himself, because he took too many others down with him.

Not that they didn't deserve it: No doubt they all Got What Was Coming To Them. All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could buy Peace and Understanding for three bucks a hit. But their loss and failure is ours, too. What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole life-style that he helped create...a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old-mystic fallacy of the Acid Culture: the desperate assumption that somebod - or at least some force - is tending that Light at the end of the tunnel." p.178-9


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OfflineSource
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Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: trendal]
    #3270345 - 10/24/04 04:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Man I love his writing. When I read his words it's like slipping inside another's skin. It's all wacky and yet totally understandable.

Sorry Swami, can't think of any questions to ask a hippy other than the one Trendal already asked.


--------------------
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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: trendal]
    #3270368 - 10/24/04 04:24 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could buy Peace and Understanding for three bucks a hit.

Yet this illusion dies hard. Take 5 grams of fungus (or 18" of cactus or DMT), talk to God and then set your spiritual compass.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleblink
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Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: Swami]
    #3270395 - 10/24/04 04:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Question: Did you ever get burned by believing before thinking?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: blink]
    #3270404 - 10/24/04 04:40 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

As a child, I swallowed many myths whole and got burned. Who does not trust adults (especially parents) at age 5?


--------------------



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Invisibleblink
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Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: Swami]
    #3270471 - 10/24/04 05:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Were the anti war protests well-attended by those with a genuine interest in stopping a war by raising their voice or those wanting to get something out of it (sex,drugs,elitism)?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: Swami]
    #3270497 - 10/24/04 05:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Do you see strong parallels between the Vietnam War and the Iraq War, not just in the wars themselves, but in the reaction back home?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibledr_gonz
Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 44,645
Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3270528 - 10/24/04 05:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

How open and free was the sex back then?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: blink]
    #3270552 - 10/24/04 05:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

As always, some were merely into the pageantry of it, but the general feel was that the whole approach was wrong. I still feel that way today.


--------------------



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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3270559 - 10/24/04 05:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I really sometimes regret missing some of that insanity of the 60s.

I do believe, however.. it's something that might well be forever lost.
I'd heard Bonnaroo's first year was a lot like Woodstock, minus a bit of the rain, and plus a bit of heat. I went the year after that, and.. well, it was nice, plenty of genuine Good People around, but a definate skunk to it I did not care for. And by skunk, I don't mean weed -- plenty of people walking around smiling inside and out, but far too many smirking at themselves and sneering at everyone else.

Anymore there's too much hate around. Word on the street's no longer Love Thy Enemy, it's Hate Thy Friend. What sort of cohesiveness can be formed with that? Disgusting.

My generation's pretty much been ass-fucked. We were earmarked for it long before we came to realize it, and we came to realize it long before it actually came to pass. The job market for a young 20-something isn't exactly a place filled with optimism.
Well.. I was about to continue, but I'm sure every else is aware of what's going on in our country right now, at least in regards to the attitudes of people in general?

But then, I suppose I've always had a bit of a dreary outlook on such things. Hopefully I'm wrong.. but I'd gladly say to hell with the sex and rock and roll, at least bring the love back.


--------------------
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revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3270583 - 10/24/04 06:03 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The parallels are striking in many ways. Early on, I "predicted" there would be major abuses (Abu Graib and unnecessary civilian deaths) because of the combination of "patriotic" brain-washing and putting soldiers into an untenable situation; i.e. the people they are supposed to protect are physically indistinguishable from the enemy. Many people get pissed at Kerry for talking of war crimes without the slightest understanding that almost the same dynamics exist today. The ground-pounders are being killed at an alarming rate and in the nature of self-preservation will shoot first and ask questions later. This may lead to a disregard for ALL the civilians (towelheads vs. gooks).

The main difference today is that the opposition to the Iraqi war is not rooted in the youth, but is spread across the board and if fact, todays' youth is MORE supportive of the war.

An interesting footnote is that the nation in general was shocked at Nixon after Watergate, but not me, as his public lies were previously documented over the previous 20 year period and available to anyone who cared to look / read. The same could be said today.


--------------------



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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Ask a Hippie... [Re: dr_gonz]
    #3270594 - 10/24/04 06:12 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

From my limited view, it was more open than the 50's, but you guys have it better today. Things are much wilder now. I was out at a club last night and this guy was grabbing and sucking his girlfriend's tit. Last year I was down in Mexico and two girls were riding the mechanical bull without tops on and doing a lesbo thang. Never saw that in the general public back then.

Nudity may have been more prevalent years ago, but despite popular mythology and movies, did not equal more sex.

Disclaimer: I am only sharing my narrow perspective and make no attempt to speak for a whole generation.


--------------------



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