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Offlinefredthetree
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Rights, violation, drugs, governments, and YOU!
    #3232140 - 10/08/04 09:51 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

i. The Government; or any party; or any individual, does not have the right to dictate a person's thought.
ii. Hallucinogenic compounds have the ability to influence a person's manner of thinking.
iii. Many Governments restrict the use of hallucinogenic drugs.


Conclusion: Many Governments restrict our manner of thinking.
Second conclusion: Many Governments violate individual rights.


Edited by fredthetree (10/08/04 10:38 AM)


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: An argument, re: hallucingenic compounds. [Re: fredthetree]
    #3232176 - 10/08/04 10:11 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Or
i. The government; or any party; or any individual does not have the right to dictate a person's thought.
ii. An individual dictates what he/she will do/think.

Conclusion: We often restrict our own manner of thinking and as a result we violate our own rights.


--------------------

OTD UNDERDOGS

Is attention your retarded heroin?


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Offlinefredthetree
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Re: An argument, re: hallucingenic compounds. [Re: Funguy]
    #3232196 - 10/08/04 10:19 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

But that isn't about hallucinogenics, and so invalidates the title, and corrupts the entire statement. [!]

:wink:


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: An argument, re: hallucingenic compounds. [Re: fredthetree]
    #3232208 - 10/08/04 10:27 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Okay, how about:

i. Gov't, individual, yada yada yada.
ii. Hallucingens can influence the way we think.

Conlusion: Hallucingens influence our manner of thinking and as a result violates our rights.

(BTW, your conclusion did not have any bearing on hallucinogens either) :grin:


--------------------

OTD UNDERDOGS

Is attention your retarded heroin?


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Offlinefredthetree
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Re: An argument, re: hallucingenic compounds. [Re: Funguy]
    #3232225 - 10/08/04 10:37 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Good stuff :lol:

i. balhblahblah
ii. Comunication alters thought and perception

Conclusion: Everyone violates the rights of everyone else :smile:


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: An argument, re: hallucingenic compounds. [Re: fredthetree]
    #3232234 - 10/08/04 10:41 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Yep.  What about:

i. We have no rights, only perceptions we give ourselves to make us feel better.
ii. Talking about rights is useless.

Conclusion:  Stop talking about philosophy and get a job! He-he :wink:


--------------------

OTD UNDERDOGS

Is attention your retarded heroin?


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OfflineWhiteRussian
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Re: An argument, re: hallucingenic compounds. [Re: Funguy]
    #3234048 - 10/08/04 07:26 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

how about

i.blaaahahahaahaahbababgas
ii.blahahahalall

conclusion: blaahahabllagasg read my sig :smile:


--------------------
aaaaaahhhhh


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: An argument, re: hallucingenic compounds. [Re: fredthetree]
    #3234128 - 10/08/04 08:00 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Come on, man...you just get that one figured out? Everybody knows that!!!


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: An argument, re: hallucingenic compounds. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3234159 - 10/08/04 08:06 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

not to mention thats only one of about a billion ways that the government influences our thoughts

the real question is, what should we do about?

how bout say fuck you to the government and do hallucinogenics anyways?

works for me


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: An argument, re: hallucingenic compounds. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3234184 - 10/08/04 08:14 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

That is what I've been doing for 25 years now and I am doing fine.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Rights, violation, drugs, governments, and YOU! [Re: fredthetree]
    #3234195 - 10/08/04 08:18 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

fredthetree said:
i. The Government; or any party; or any individual, does not have the right to dictate a person's thought.
ii. Hallucinogenic compounds have the ability to influence a person's manner of thinking.
iii. Many Governments restrict the use of hallucinogenic drugs.


Conclusion: Many Governments restrict our manner of thinking.
Second conclusion: Many Governments violate individual rights.



*Every government


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: An argument, re: hallucingenic compounds. [Re: WhiteRussian]
    #3235012 - 10/09/04 12:53 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

WhiteRussian said:
how about

i.blaaahahahaahaahbababgas
ii.blahahahalall

conclusion: blaahahabllagasg read my sig :smile:




That is hilarious!
But supposedly our government is "run by the people."  If the majority favored the responsible use of hallucinogens, would our gov't allow them?  Maybe so, maybe not.


--------------------

OTD UNDERDOGS

Is attention your retarded heroin?


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: An argument, re: hallucingenic compounds. [Re: Funguy]
    #3235054 - 10/09/04 01:06 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

if only the majority knew.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Rights, violation, drugs, governments, and YOU! [Re: fredthetree]
    #3235157 - 10/09/04 01:50 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

hmmm..can a person or an individual control what you think?

think about it... :wink:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


Edited by kaiowas (10/09/04 01:50 AM)


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Rights, violation, drugs, governments, and YOU! [Re: fredthetree]
    #3235237 - 10/09/04 02:31 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

What gets me is we pay them to do this to us. speaking of USA and Canada as thats all I can really relate to. We as a generall dont do shit, and seemingly dont care about shit. We get in our small groups (friends, family, this forum, certain tv shows etc..) and whine/bitch/converse, whatever one calls it, about our veiws. but we often do this with people who share basically the same view. at the end of the day what have we done? agreed with our peers. we still pay our stupidly high taxes and get royally fucked doing so.

The only force in human society larger than violence is currency. and we give lots of the latter to those who give us lots of the former.

I'm a total fucking hypocrite, but theres my hypocritcal veiw.


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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Invisiblejux
I'm better thanan STD!

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 924
Re: Rights, violation, drugs, governments, and YOU [Re: kaiowas]
    #3235251 - 10/09/04 02:35 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

kaiowas said:
hmmm..can a person or an individual control what you think?

think about it... :wink:




you are the composite reality of a complex system influenced by, altered by, and composed of every experience encountered thus far. Therefore, every interaction affects how you think. Therefore, every person exerts some form of control over another person's thoughts. It's inescapable.
Freedom from outside oppression and control is therefore an ideal unobtainable. However, it is an ideal which many continue to strive for in the hopes that one day we, as a species, will be capable of perfect coexistance. One such way is to eliminate the influence of artificial constructs such as government.
In order to obtain any level of personal freedom, one must be able to alter their own state of consciousness at their own discretion.

I am sorry if none of this makes sense, I have been having a terrible time thinking as of late. It's very weird. I woke up yesterday and found that I was incapable of many of my normal daily activities, including intelligent conversation and driving. It's been hell these past two days. HELP!!!!


--------------------


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Rights, violation, drugs, governments, and YOU [Re: jux]
    #3235261 - 10/09/04 02:37 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

"In order to obtain any level of personal freedom, one must be able to alter their own state of consciousness at their own discretion."

but by the description you gave before, reality actually caused you to want to make an altering in your consciousness.

it all boils down to "do we have free will or not"

this has been hotly debated here a lot, but I wouldn't mind going at it again :grin:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisiblejux
I'm better thanan STD!

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 924
Re: Rights, violation, drugs, governments, and YOU [Re: kaiowas]
    #3235288 - 10/09/04 02:46 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

kaiowas said:
"In order to obtain any level of personal freedom, one must be able to alter their own state of consciousness at their own discretion."

but by the description you gave before, reality actually caused you to want to make an altering in your consciousness.

it all boils down to "do we have free will or not"

this has been hotly debated here a lot, but I wouldn't mind going at it again :grin:




absolutely correct. I myself do not beleive in free will.
However, following the same line of reasoning, it is silly for society to punish me for a harmless act that they themselves are in large part responsible for.


--------------------


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Rights, violation, drugs, governments, and YOU [Re: jux]
    #3235301 - 10/09/04 02:50 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

raised by the television.  are we ever responsible for our actions?  imnot trying to come off as a dick but where do you draw the line?  was manson responsible for his murders?  was teh nazis responsible for thiers?  was it the propaganda that was fed to them or the acceptance and willingness to comply?

sorry i jsut dont quite see where your coming from, it seems you are to blame society for your actions.  which i dont totally disagree with.  but i wanna make sure i get it right so i dont insult ya :smile:


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Rights, violation, drugs, governments, and YOU [Re: jux]
    #3235302 - 10/09/04 02:51 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

this always brings back a great quote from bill hicks

"making nature illegal is like saying god mad a mistake..."

this is of course because most politicians claim they belong to some religious faction.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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