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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #4432556 - 07/21/05 09:21 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I am not surprised at this. A low dose has that effect on many people.


Where, may I ask. Do they allow a three deer bow season?  Hope you had use for all that meat. I can give you my address. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (07/21/05 09:23 AM)

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: Icelander]
    #4432594 - 07/21/05 09:29 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

i only nailed 2, and i was right outside of the ocala national. and yes all of the meat went to use, i dont kill purely for sport, i only kill what i intend to eat. extra meat was used to make some tasty deer soup and what was left over i made deer jerky out of. there isnt anything like a good piece of deer jerky.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #4432820 - 07/21/05 10:22 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, the way you wrote that was a little confusing. It sounded like three.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: Icelander]
    #4432886 - 07/21/05 10:35 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

ohhhhh i see what you mean, yeah that does look a little confusing now that i read it again, ive also been paint balling many times on shrooms and i have to say it improved my performance there also.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #4432915 - 07/21/05 10:41 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

That sounds like fun,  :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 537
Loc: MI
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: Icelander]
    #4432919 - 07/21/05 10:43 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)



An interesting ethnography about the relationship between ayahuasca induced trances, pharmacology of the amazon, and DNA.

The Cosmic Serpent is a personal adventure, a fascinating study of anthropology and ethnopharmacology, and a revolutionary look at how intelligence and consciousness may come into being. In a first-person narrative of scientific discovery that open new perspectives on biology, anthropology, and the limits of rationalism. Jeremy Narby reveals how startlingly different the world around us appears when we open our minds to it.

Jeremy Narby, PhD, grew up in Canada and Switzerland, studied history at the University of Canterbury, and received his doctorate in anthropology from Stanford University.

Praise for THE COSMIC SERPENT:

The Cosmic Serpent reads more like a mystery novel than a standard anthropological study. I was particularly impressed by the honesty of the account, the cross disciplinary nature of the argument, and the courage and resoned conviction with which the author makes his argument.

Much is written lately about 'indigenous knowledge,' especially in the field of traditional plant and medical knowledge. The vast number of indigenous societies in the Amazon region have received much fame recently in this area because of their knowledge and use of hallucinogenic materials. Modern pharmaceuticals are especially interested in this knowledge, and many indigenous leaders and organizations have spoken about the need to protect their intellectual property rights, as well as to capture some of the economic benefits of such knowledge.

Jeremy Narby's book places the discussion of indigenous knowledge in a deeper philosophical and cosmological framework, arguing for an epistemic correspondence between the knowledge of Amazonian shamans and modern biologists. The argument which Narby make mines and reinterprets many of the sources in anthropology and biology on the subject. Some may argue that what Narby has found is mere chance or metaphoric correspondence, while others will appreciate the subleties and truth value of the argument.

Shelton H. Davis
Senior Sociologist
World Bank

There is superstition in avoiding superstition, as Bacon once remarked, and I honor Jeremy Narby for finding his way throught the numerous thickets that scientific reason has left behind in its attempts to turn plain truths of experience into the superstition it avoids. The Cosmic Serpent deals with the visionary experience that comes from taking ayahuasca, and Mr. Narby finds the claim that a plant means what it looks like is no superstition but a fact of experience: moreover, that the images of snakes and ladders that accompany the experience refer not only to the appearance of the ayahuasca vine but to that of the DNA spiral. To affirm this likeness he marshals the evidence of molecular biology and leaves the reader with the stunning intimation that the ayahuascan view of the world is none other than the scientific view seen from another perspective, that of selfhood rather than no self at all.

Francis Huxley
author of The Way of the Sacred.


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If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.

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OfflineMJF
Human Being
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Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 1,823
Loc: Between 15 and 45 degrees long...
Last seen: 4 months, 19 days
Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4433658 - 07/21/05 01:51 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
I think hallucinogens...played a part.

Third time is a charm they say. On what do you base this? You want to have a discussion, but dont discuss.

Are you going to present nothing more than a random, totally unsubstantiated idea without the slightest supporting evidence other than a cool book by a non-scientist who was in error about way too many things?




I've given a couple examples of how I think they played a role in evolution (the hunting thing...and the language thing). I know that I don't have enough of supporting evidence. This is a speculative theory. But I have yet to hear your ideas on why these things are false (other than lack of evidence...which doesn't make something false..it just doesn't prove it to be true)....or what (if any) environmental factors could have played a role in our evolution? How do you think our evolution (from the mind of the ape to the human mind) came about? What are your thoughts on evolution?

Edited by MJF (07/21/05 01:53 PM)

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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: MJF]
    #4433728 - 07/21/05 02:09 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

i didn't read this thread but i think psychedelics have definitely played a roll in our culteral evolution (they have a long history of religious use) but i don't buy into any of the theories that claim they were integral in our physical evolution.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: MJF]
    #4433791 - 07/21/05 02:22 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

the hunting thing
Even if (a HUGE if) shrooms helped with hunting, that would have no affect on genetic composition. Was the toking Olympic snow-boarder better able to pass on his skills because he smoked? There is no genetic correlation. Nor is there any archaelogical evidence linking mushrooms and hunting.

...and the language thing
The language thing? Where is there any possible correlation between serotonin levels and new permanent abilities?

Civilizations advanced rapidly in areas where there were no mushrooms or mushroom usage, such as in ancient Egypt or modern America (pre-Watson) so they were not a necessary component.

There would have to be some possible way for mushroom usage to affect genetics, there is none. Are the sons and daughters of tripping hippies from the '60s substantially different?

Whether or not I offer up a better or different theory has NOTHING to do with whether or not yours is valid, true?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (07/21/05 03:39 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4434133 - 07/21/05 03:38 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

There would have to be some possible way for mushroom usage to affect genetics, there is none. Are the sons and daughters of tripping hippies from the '60s substantially different?
_________________________________________________________

Fuck Swami, If you lived where I do you wouldn't have to ask that question. The daughters of these hippies are so fucking hot I can't believe it.  I'm not kidding, these little spawn are the most beatiful girls I have seen anywhere, ever. I'm convinced. :thumbup: :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: Icelander]
    #4434148 - 07/21/05 03:41 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Fuck Swami, If you lived where I do you wouldn't have to ask that question. The daughters of these hippies are so fucking hot I can't believe it. I'm not kidding, these little spawn are the most beatiful girls I have seen anywhere, ever. I'm convinced.

You know, I have been meaning to visit you soon. Sounds like a good place for me to set up my "church".


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4434186 - 07/21/05 03:50 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Oh my, Yes,  I'm telling you. This is the believers paradise. I'm the Swami of my home town here.I'm considered a total skeptic.You would have a blast. But man these natural clear skinned beauties would knock you out. No makeup, no fix up boobs. Just beatiful. Just the place for your Church.

Come on out. You can crash at my place. :thumbup: :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: Icelander]
    #4434210 - 07/21/05 03:57 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I lived in Orange County for years. Has some of the most gorgeous babes around. They have a law that allows for the euthansia of the fat and homely.

However, I could not stand dating (most of) them. Superficiality and fakeness reigns supreme. (not you froggy :heart:) Depth is not a desirable quality. And I hate grabbing a handful of silicon or saline.

Um, not that I am into illegal activity, but how is the herb up your way? :spliff:


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4434361 - 07/21/05 04:23 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Well comeon, you can throw a stone into norther california potlands from here.  :thumbup: Not my thing anymore, but used to be.

Really there are some very cool women here where I live. I got the best one though. :heart: But I live here for the quality of the people who live here. It's without doubt the best I have seen anywhere in the ol US. But I haven't been everywhere.  It's liberal, and there is a great live and let live attitude.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4434363 - 07/21/05 04:23 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

My mother was a hippy, guess that did the trick for me!  :wink:
:hippie: :flowerchild:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: Veritas]
    #4434378 - 07/21/05 04:25 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

You're  amazing Veritas. I love you. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: Icelander]
    #4434520 - 07/21/05 04:53 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

:inlove: :flowers: :birthday: :tripping: :happyheart: :hug: :iloveyou:

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