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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
How can Kerry win the debates...
    #3198251 - 09/30/04 01:30 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

...when even Diane Sawyer can flummox him?

From http://powerlineblog.com/archives/008007.php:

DIANE SAWYER: Was the war in Iraq worth it?


JOHN KERRY: We should not have gone to war knowing the information that we know today.


DS: So it was not worth it.


JK: We should not ? it depends on the outcome ultimately ? and that depends on the leadership. And we need better leadership to get the job done successfully, but I would not have gone to war knowing that there was no imminent threat ? there were no weapons of mass destruction ? there was no connection of Al Qaeda ? to Saddam Hussein! The president misled the American people ? plain and simple. Bottom line.


DS: So if it turns out okay, it was worth it?


JK: No.


DS: But right now it wasn?t [ ? ? ? ]?


JK: It was a mistake to do what he did, but we have to succeed now that we?ve done what he?s ? I mean look ? we have to succeed. But was it worth ? as you asked the question ? $200 billion and taking the focus off of Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda? That?s the question. The test of the presidency was whether or not you should have gone to war to get rid of him. I think, had the inspectors continued, had we done other things ? there were plenty of ways to keep the pressure on Saddam Hussein.


DS: But no way to get rid of him.


JK: Oh, sure there were. Oh, yes there were. Absolutely.


DS: So you?re saying that today, even if Saddam Hussein were in power today it would be a better thing ? you would prefer that . . .


JK: No, I would not prefer that. And Diane ? don?t twist here.


There's little need to analyze this exchange-- the real story is Kerry's inability, after all this time, to sound coherent on Iraq, and his testiness when a relatively friendly journalist asks for straight answers. But there is another story. Kerry is now claiming that there "absolutely" were ways to "get rid" of Saddam without the U.S. going to war with him. And it is through this claim, apparently, that Kerry intends to argue that it was not worth it to go war, while avoiding a concession that he prefers having Saddam in power to the present situation.


Sawyer did not ask Kerry how we could have toppled Saddam without taking him on militarily (why should she have; she was already trouncing him?). If she had asked, Kerry might have responded that eventually the U.S. could have taken him on with a broader coalition, as if (a) France would ever have joined us and (b) having a few Frenchmen on the ground would make the present situation materially different. In any event should Kerry's statement to Sawyer become his latest position on Iraq, he might as well throw in the towel. In the current environment, I can't conceive of Americans electing a president that prone to ducking hard choices through wishful, if not delusional, thinking.

---------------------------------------------



pinky


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: Phred]
    #3198773 - 09/30/04 03:46 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Damn. Reminds me of how he said anyone who doesn't believe the world is better off without Saddam Hussien isn't fit to be president, and now he says "We traded a dictator for chaos" and that we were better of WITH Saddam.
He says it was the right thing to do, and then he says it was the wrong war.
Similarly when as a member of the Senate intelligence commitee (with access to the same info as the president) he states that Saddam has WMD and we must stop him, and now complains he along with the rest of the country were 'misled' (polite term for 'lied to') by a 'dishonest' president.

They really overdo it on the flip flop attacks, but some of the stuff Kerry says is unbelievable.


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OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NY
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: Phred]
    #3198792 - 09/30/04 04:01 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

with the new rules its not even a debate just 2 seprate interveiws


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InvisibleSteinM
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 35,129
Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: AhronZombi]
    #3198826 - 09/30/04 04:37 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Like on Conan Obrien tonight, its a talking contest.


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: AhronZombi]
    #3198979 - 09/30/04 06:59 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

AhronZombi said:
with the new rules its not even a debate just 2 seprate interveiws



They're not new. www.opendebates.org


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
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Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: Phred]
    #3199259 - 09/30/04 10:37 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"Don't twist here." What a joke.

Kerry wants to have removed Saddam without going to war. I want a new car without having to pay for it.

Going into the Presidential debates, people still don't know what John Kerry wants to do now, or wanted to do then. John Kerry still hasn't made up his mind. The man has no substance or integrity. He is unfit for command.

I can't wait for the left to turn on him. After tonight, it will be clear that he has no chance. The left like to eat their own, and John Kerry will be served up on a silver platter. They never liked him anyway, they just thought that he could beat Bush. By tomorrow morning that will no longer be an option, and the canabilistic feeding frenzy will begin. I can't wait to see that traitor eaten alive by his own party.


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Tastes just like chicken


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 1 day
Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: Phred]
    #3199282 - 09/30/04 10:51 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

So alhough Bush has been spinning a complete pack of lies on Iraq since the word go, because it has been a coherent and consistent pack of lies, its ok?


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3199309 - 09/30/04 11:11 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

ill agree that kerry is not an electable candidate..but to call him a traitor simply because hes running against bush is laughable :rotfl:.. even more so since bush will soon make it the reality..and in doing so..prove himself to be the traitor...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Anonymous

Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: Phred]
    #3199611 - 09/30/04 01:02 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

:oogle:


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: Phred]
    #3199659 - 09/30/04 01:11 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Your conservative bias isn't letting you see that Sawyer didn't "flummox" him at all. She misses the point entirely. It's good that Saddam is out of power, but the price that we have and are going to pay isn't worth it.

How is Kerry going to win the debate? Because Bush is a fucking moron. Did you forget?





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Mp3 of the month: Park Avenue Playground - The Trip



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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 1 day
Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: Phred]
    #3199795 - 09/30/04 01:58 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

What debate? I thought a scripted recital was taking place...


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Always Smi2le


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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
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Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: Phred]
    #3200908 - 09/30/04 07:12 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I agree with Learyfan. Kerry's stance makes perfect sense to me.

But I wonder how Bush would perform during a Sawyer interview. I doubt it'd go very well (assuming it wasn't the soft line of questioning or tea-time chat like the interview by O'Rielly).


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


Edited by viaggio (09/30/04 07:30 PM)


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OfflineWorf
Lt. Commander

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 15,663
Loc: Final Frontier
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: Viaggio]
    #3200955 - 09/30/04 07:25 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Bush would just say something like "when I was knee high to a butterbean my daddy taught me to stand by my family. Family comes first no matter what."

DS "Yes but how does that relate to the war?"

GW "What so you're against family? America depends on the family unit"

DS "Well.. uh no I'm pro family..."

GW "Ok then. stfu bitch"


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: Worf]
    #3200988 - 09/30/04 07:35 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If Bush were interviewed, it would just be him repeating "I can't believe that people would think that world would be a better place with Saddam Hussein still in power" 23 times.


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OfflineWorf
Lt. Commander

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 15,663
Loc: Final Frontier
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: Gijith]
    #3201006 - 09/30/04 07:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"merica's better now that saddam's out of power. what the hell are you thinking you liberals"

"osama bin laden and kim jong il are in power still. Why don't we have get rid of them"

"it would cost too much money. I'm a conservative and refuse to spend money on anything other than what i want"

"but wouldn't the world be better without them"

"we all have common interests and I still believe in the family unit. Are you saying we should do away with the family unit?"

"no"

"ok then stfu you pink commie. now do something for you country and stick a flag sticker on your suv and consume some gas for your good buddy"


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: Worf]
    #3201010 - 09/30/04 07:47 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

It plays so goddamn well in middle America though. When I talk to my relatives out there, I'm fucking astonished how easily they're led. Karl Rove has really transformed Bush's worst qualities (stupidity, inability to speak long setences) into what are widely percieved as his best qualities. I'm guessing tonight's gonna be another good night for Rove. I'm sure he has a prostitute and a bucket of KFC waiting at the hotel for him.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: Phred]
    #3201702 - 09/30/04 11:01 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

he just did :smile:...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 12 years, 24 days
Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3201718 - 09/30/04 11:04 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
he just did :smile:...


:thumbup:


AHAHAHAHAHAHA fuck you righties........


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3201721 - 09/30/04 11:05 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
he just did :smile:...




pinky, bush got beaten thoroughly

Maybe Rove will ditch the hooker and just eat the KFC by himself.


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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
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Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,243
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
Re: How can Kerry win the debates... [Re: Phred]
    #3201741 - 09/30/04 11:09 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Damn...no tv here at the moment...anybody want to sum it up for me?


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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