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InvisibleLallafa
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Re: Substrate Question
    #301486 - 04/25/01 01:10 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

shutup taz....
really, ive heard enough of your bullshit...


Clearly, i want people to notice
that i don't want them to notice me...


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OfflineTaz
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Lallafa]
    #301551 - 04/25/01 01:16 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

lallafa, your such a genious lets her some of your experienced BS...punk

what? no reply? I guess that explains your experience then...when you can prove me wrong then I'll agree with ya but until then you need to shut your own trap....

Edited by Taz on 04/25/01 01:33 PM.



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"Most of the world's problems are caused by people taking things that do not belong to them..."


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OfflineTaz
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Lallafa]
    #301555 - 04/25/01 01:22 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

here's your new pic....



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OfflinePsiLLy Cybe
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Taz]
    #301575 - 04/25/01 01:47 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Dont stress the substrate. There is a huge leaniency between the amount of each substance you add. For example: Say I am making about 12 jars worth of substrate. First of all, I never measure. Just throw a little bit of brf and/or finch food in a large bowl. then add enough vermiculite to completely mix with you brf and/or finch food. You never want to see your brf and/or finch food in the substrate unless you look real close. It should be that consistant/distributed. Aproximatly 10 to 1 is what I use. Just keep adding little by little untill you have enough for your 12 jars. Then make sure it is mixed well. As for the water, I do the same thing. It is very important you do not add to much water. To little is better then to much, you can always add more water (sterile in syringe). I just feel the substrate to make sure it is correct. It should feel damp, but not wet. After it is all mixed I like to feel it with the back of my hand, if there is any moisture at all on my hand it is perfect.

I hope I have helped in any way. Feel free to e-mail me for further help if you need to. Later on.



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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Substrate Question
    #301577 - 04/25/01 01:54 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

1/2 cup verm w/ 1/4 cup BRF and 45 cc's is good, but mixed all at once for all jars is better.
Put vermiculite in a bowl, THEN add WATER, mix well, THEN add BRF and mix well.

kickme.to/mushrooms

P.Cubensis Growth Parameters



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OfflineTaz
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Anno]
    #301598 - 04/25/01 02:13 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

it is not better, it is haste, you cannot possible get the formula right for each jar mixing in bulk, it's totaly impossible, think about it for a minute, it sounds good but it really isn't, this is a snufas tek that should be avoided..I can get the same consistant fruiting from each jar because i know that the formula is the exact in each jar, 1/4 cup of BRF in each jar will yield heavy, mixing bulk you may get 1/3 in one jar 1/'4 in another and 1/8 in another 1/2 brf flour in the next, geez, why do people want to make things so hard on them selves????



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"Most of the world's problems are caused by people taking things that do not belong to them..."


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Taz]
    #301622 - 04/25/01 02:32 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Not at all!
When you measure 1/4 cup you can easily make a mistake, so you end up with a little more or less.
If you mix it for a bigger amount, you make the same bsolute mistake, but all in all, you measure more precisisely.
Read
http://mushrooms.drooldonkey.org/noncgi/Forum2/HTML/002797.html
http://mushrooms.drooldonkey.org/noncgi/Forum2/HTML/001933.html



kickme.to/mushrooms

P.Cubensis Growth Parameters



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Offlineshizifty
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Anno]
    #301689 - 04/25/01 03:43 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Im surprised you all use so much water in your substrates. 1/4 cup? that is ~60 mL no? Ive seen this recipe in the pf tek as the maximum fruiting formula and 45 cc's as standard. From my experience 60ccs per jar was too much to work with and the jars were heavy sweaters because of it.
Actually Im sure my jars get less than 45 cc's because like Toadlickers buddy, I mix for 9 jars and fill 12.

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OfflineKaren
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Re: Substrate Question
    #301735 - 04/25/01 04:50 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

well what i do is use my jars to measure out the mix...

if you are doing 12 1/2 pint jars you would measure 8 jars of verm, 4 jars of BRF, and about 4 jars of water. Obviously since you are going to do your dry verm layer on top you don't fill the jar that you are measuring to the brim or else you will end up with too much substrate. As far as the water is concerned add three jars full of water mix and see if you need to add the whole 4th or not or just part of it.

When I use this method I get almost exactly the amount of substrate i need. Sometimes get at the most one extra jars full but that is about it...

I think it works great...

Karen
who's cat is sitting on her lap kneading her and licking her, making it VERY difficult to type.



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Offlinepsylohassee
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Anno]
    #302158 - 04/25/01 11:59 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I heard that you mix the water with the brf so it absorbs it, then add it to the verm, shouldnt the brf not the verm have the water. could you explain why this works better?



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Offlinemagnusra
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: psylohassee]
    #302180 - 04/26/01 12:20 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The vermiculite is extremely porous and can hold much more water, it's whole purpose is to be the water holding substrate and bulk of the mix. The flour is just for food. If you add the water to the flour first you would probably get a gooey mess that would give you tennis elbow trying to mix up.



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[red]* The above post is not meant to be the thoughts and/or opinions of the author. I am relaying information for an acquintance and only write in first-person to simplify the process[/red]


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InvisibleBillyblastoff
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Karen]
    #302255 - 04/26/01 01:54 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I think I would go with measuring each jar seperately. It may be alittle more work but it almost guarantees getting the measurements correct. Also "Karen" if the correct amount of Verm is 1/2 then by your method wouldnt that be 6 jars and 1/4 cup BRF 3 jars? Or are you reccommending that a "newbie" throw the standard measurements out the window and go with yours? And if this was just a mistake all the more reason to mix seperately? Im only asking a question.


Tell me something good then I might agree with you..


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"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For while knowledge defines all we currently know and understand, imagination points to all we might yet discover and create."

"There is a wealth of information built into us, tucked away in the genetic material in every one of our cells. The psychedelic drugs allow exploration of this interior world, and insights into its nature."

Tell me something good then I might agree with you....the Smithereens


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Anonymous

Re: Substrate Question [Re: Billyblastoff]
    #302324 - 04/26/01 03:14 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Hell, I just throw (with pf substrate) all the shit into the 'kitchen aid' and I KNOW its mixed uniformly.. :)
all at once



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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Billyblastoff]
    #302349 - 04/26/01 04:06 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The vermiculite is extremely porous and can hold much more water, it's whole purpose is to be the water holding substrate and bulk of the mix. The flour is just for food. If you add the water to the flour first you would probably get a gooey mess that would give you tennis elbow trying to mix up.

Exactly!

kickme.to/mushrooms

P.Cubensis Growth Parameters



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Offlinepl151
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Anno]
    #302354 - 04/26/01 04:15 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

i just measured out for each and mixed it all in one bowl real well. cakes almost completely colonized in 2 weeks! didnt seem to hurt me yet( fingers crossed)



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OfflineKaren
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Billyblastoff]
    #302662 - 04/26/01 03:35 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

BillyBlastOff,

No that is not what I am saying at all, of course a newbie should go with the standard measurements.

You need to think of this in different terms. If you did it that way you would only have enough substrate to fill 9 jars.

you are correct 1/2 c verm to 1/4 c BRF

if you notice 1/4 c is half of 1/2 c so you need twice as much verm as you do BRF...right

so with my method you are using 4 jars BRF and twice that would be 8 ...hence 8 jars verm.......this all comes out to 12 jars worth of substrate. you can count the water seperately because the water absorbs into the verm. Unfortunately the verm expands with the water a little bit which is why you end up with a tiny bit extra substrate. Like I said it is only about enough for one half pint extra not much of a waste for such an easy method.

I do agree that it would be better to do each jar seperately ...but that can prove to be a pain in the ass and I just personally don't think it is worth it.

I hope this makes sense to you now...if not PM me and i will try to explain it in different terms.

Karen



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OfflineTaz
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Karen]
    #302664 - 04/26/01 03:42 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

mix each jars substrate individually for loading to "insure" accurate formula rendering. after reading these post I have to laugh hahaha, people saying all the same thing,"I always end up with a little extra substrate" my point proven! therefore you do not have the accurate formula per jar, u may think u do but you don't, you all just proved that by saying you end up with extra substrate.....

when you mix jars individually...you'll notice that some you have to press down the substrate lightly to fit it all in and some you don't this is because of the verm, this is why everybody is saying they have left overs from bulk mixing...and if any of you are up to the challenge then do a bulk mix then watch your jars grow, grow them in cake style..now notice how some cakes will take off while others won't... that's because when u bulk mix you cannot get the formula correct for every jar, it takes me about an hour to mix up 24 jars seperatly, it's not that hard are time consuming. it is way better in the end to do it this way......

Edited by Taz on 04/26/01 03:51 PM.



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"Most of the world's problems are caused by people taking things that do not belong to them..."


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OfflineKaren
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Taz]
    #302676 - 04/26/01 03:57 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The only reason you end up with a little extra substrate in my method if from the expanding of the verm. because of adding water. It doesn't mean that my ratio of verm to BRF to water is off and that the substrate is no good.

Like I said I agree it would be better to do each individually. You would definitely be getting the proper amount of brf and verm in each jar (excluding any human error) but for those of us who are not as worried about that I feel my method is just great. Like I said each jar individually is to much work for me.

If you think about it that way....if you want to ensure even colonization (which is what I assume you are trying to do by doing each jar individually) then you should be doing a seperate syringe for each jar right. Then you would be getting an equal amount of spores in each jar which would give you more even colonization. Too much trouble though huh?

If someone wants to put the effort in to do it individually great...that person will most likely get a little bit better results than I...but I feel like my yeilds have been sufficient so far. As a matter of fact I have more mushies then I know what to do with.

By no means am I saying my method is the best....but I like it and I think its pretty easy, convienient (dont have to look for measuring cups, wash them, etc.) and the accuracy is pretty decent. I just thought I would suggest it for the people who don't want to measure individually.

Karen




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OfflineTaz
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Karen]
    #302684 - 04/26/01 04:10 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Karen, the reason why I mix seperately is because I do a lot of experimenting with different strains , and with dunking and so on, In order for me to get the most accurate results I have to do it this way, and another reason why I'm so stuck on it is because jar after jar almost produces the results I want which is a ton of mushies...

I was in no way putting you are your tek down and I'm sorry if it seemed that way...you are correct about it being easier, and as far as those oh case, then bulk mixing is the way to go becuase in this sense (caseing) it really doesn't matter,

I am not trying to get even colonization, I am trying to get the most fruiting power out of each one, and just so you know I use 1 syringe for every 5 jars, incolulate 2cc's per jar and my jars are usaully at 100% anywhere from 10 to 15 days......




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"Most of the world's problems are caused by people taking things that do not belong to them..."


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OfflineKaren
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Taz]
    #302690 - 04/26/01 04:23 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Taz,

I didnt feel put down....I just wanted to share my way of doing things without it being completely dismissed. My way isnt for everyone...but a large number of people especially newbies would find my way pretty easy. The less stuff involved the easier it is for newbies...and they have the jars already right there in their hands.

When I get to really experimenting in a scientific fashion....I probably would measure the way you do. But I case right now and it works GREAT for that.

I just think this is a fantastic way for newbies to get started. I am a newbie after all and it has worked great for me so far. I am colonizing my second set of jars right now and they are going quite well. As you very well know my first attempt was pretty decent. Just over 3 oz. in one flush can't go wrong with that. My second flush was only about 1 oz. but hey 4 oz in 2 flushes is pretty good I think.

Karen

BTW I wouldn't call it a Tek..heheh it is just a method. I think too many things are called TEK's. I mean come on ....someone just asked for a shit eating Tek the other day. LOL.




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