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Repeatable Experiences * 4
    #29528686 -

One of the common refrains is that psychedelic experiences are always individual and can’t be replicated. You can’t jump in the same river twice, right?

My experience is different. I am able to reproduce nearly identical psilocybin journeys. I think you can jump in the river at the same swimhole and let the current flow around you. The river may be different, but your place in it can stay the same.


I am very lucky to live in a place with awesome swimholes.

A huge part of it is eliminating variables. Same prep, set and setting each time. Intentions are similar, but not identical. Measured doses of known strength, split over the course of an hour or so. Start with about 1/3 and get through the comeup, then the rest if all feels right. On the 5 scale, I shoot for 3.5 ish.

Another key for me is to focus on my body, breathing deeply every time, massaging tight spots, stretching and realigning, flexing and extending every muscle. Drink lots of water before and during.

This positive physical feedback loop lets my mind meditate easily and I can work through chronic and acute challenges as the journey rolls. I come out of the experience feeling lighter, fully cleansed and better connected to both my body and the outside world.

I have similar results with LSD, usually with lighter doses and primarily for energetic adventures. LSD does not seem to bring the profound body healing of psilocybin, though.

Thoughts?


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Co-Executive Producer of the Holy Grail



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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: Ralph W. Llama] * 1
    #29528840 -

Well, I never thought that they CAN'T be replicated, at least in certain themes and respects (because after all, each moment is unique, right?).

But, I did learn that it was wrong to EXPECT a certain experience.


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All communication
is pattern
and rhythm

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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: Blue Cthulhu] * 1
    #29528866 -

I've never had a similar shroom trip twice. It's always some kind of roller coaster that I'm on being taken for a ride that well, ya can't quite get off (Well, not without a real tripkiller anyway)

Now LSD? Effects are predictable, especially in the lower to mid range. Much easier headspace to navigate and be in control of how you want the experience to be.

Mushrooms.... hell, the headspace can just be straight up overwhelming. I guess it entirely depends on how much you dose of course. Saying 3.5g doesn't mean much on it's own. Big difference from 3.5g of pan cyans and 3.5g of standard cubes, y'know. One will send you into outerspace and the other... well, it's still a strong experience, but it's not THAT!

But 150 ug of acid is 150 ug of acid. It's effects are the same every time for me. I can enjoy being outside or enjoy being inside. I have full autonomy on how I want the trip to go.

Now 300ug.... the effects are more intense and at some point you'll have that inevitable experience, but in the end I enjoy the ride up and enjoy the ride all the way down. I know what to expect and know how I'll feel during it.

I never know how I'm going to actually feel when I'm tripping on shrooms. Maybe because I tend to really only do higher doses of mushrooms. I never particularly enjoyed how lower end doses made me feel, but I feel the same way about LSD. Mid doses sometimes get me where I want to be and sometimes it doesn't... so I pretty much default to high dose to make sure it does exactly what I want it to, which isn't necessarily what I want to experience, but mostly what I need it to do.


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Lead by example, words mean little when your actions don't reflect what you say.

Spread kindness, love, empathy, compassion.

Learn from mistakes. Try and do better. Each day is a new day, try to make it a better one.

Coconut and Avocado is awesome for the skin.

MIND OVER MATTER

:mushroom2::lsd:

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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: Ralph W. Llama] * 1
    #29528879 -

I think you are over-simplifying  and diminishing your experience, and I think you are exaggerating your control of the process in your performance of "self control" type activities.

stoned or not stoned, when I am aware of my body and my breathing process, the flow of time changes, and that is never the same twice. And when I say flow of time, I mean what I am aware of, the individual signals, micro feels, and sound bits etc.

I could over-simplify that every sardine sandwich has at least one piece of bread and a sardine, but how that is prepared, with or without a fresh tomato slice, with or without salt and olive oil, with or without beer, so many variables.

nice swimming hole
you are lucky, but please do enjoy every moment you are present there it is a gift, and a different gift each moment.

sure one splash is like another, but not really.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: redgreenvines]
    #29528940 -

Maybe OP is referring to the timeless state of nondual awareness that rests at the eye of the hurricane, or the center of the flow as he describes it.


--------------------
All communication
is pattern
and rhythm

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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: Ralph W. Llama]
    #29528943 -

you can strike the same spot of a frozen lake but the web of cracks in the ice will always come out different

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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: redgreenvines]
    #29529050 -

Yes i agree with that, its positive as it is


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Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: Ralph W. Llama]
    #29529182 -

Repeatability reduces phenomena down tot he crudest possible components, blatantly obvious to all observers regardless of their level of consciousness.

Not everyone can or has OBE-ed or Astral Projected, which certainly doesn't preclude the phenomena from existing.


--------------------

"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius

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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: Ralph W. Llama]
    #29529256 -

I don't believe any trip is repeatable. Although when 25i was big the visuals were always the same. That is the closest experience I have with keeping trips the same.

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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: Sheet]
    #29529565 -

To clarify, I was referring to the 5 level scale of effects, not grams. Also, if you grind and blend to homogenity, then test dose, you can easily get close to the same amount of actives  each time.

I have done this same trip successfully over a hundred times and absolutely look forward to the healing. It is always a beautiful experience and never grows routine.

Managing the comeup anxiety in this way seems to help me immensely. It’s not self control, but finding balance on the wave. Breathing deeply is a positive feedback loop that most of us appreciate, adding bodywork is just an extension of this.

If I want a different experience, I change a variable or two. Pushing up level 4+ yields much more variety. Taking smaller amounts with friends also changes things.

I see value in rituals that reduce unpredictable results. My confidence and understanding are enhanced. Every journey is taken seriously and respectfully though, it’s not bravado or commonplace.

When I really started on this path, I was concerned about bad trips. Even with all the positive experiences I have had, it is still a struggle every time I dive in. I only have to contemplate a strong journey and my belly does a little dance. So, I try to be careful with details.

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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: Ralph W. Llama]
    #29535138 -

My Marijuana experiences can replicated.

Back in the day, my DXM experiences could be similar.

Mushrooms, I don't know. Mine were all so different.


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If you want to know who rules over you, simply ask who you are not allowed to question.

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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: Hew Riptide] * 7
    #29541624 -

While I have maintained a nearly 40 year relationship with psychedelics, primarily LSD, I didn’t really connect with psilocybin fungi until late 2022. Previous experiences with them were mostly uncomfortable and discouraging. I usually wanted to lay down and be quiet.

LSD brought more fun energy and was easier to connect with, especially during athletic adventures and concerts.

As I got older, my LSD dose levels dropped, due to concerns about bad trips and just enjoying the lighter demands of lower amounts. So when I was going through a depression in 2022 and a friend gifted me some fungi capsules, I was not super interested in taking them.

After some pondering, I admitted that I was looking for healing help and decided to try them. I started with one capsule and food in my system first. These were true microdoses and delivered no perceived effects.

In a couple of weeks, I noticed an improvement in my mental state. This was intriguing and I decided to learn more and continue using them. I reread all my psychedelic books and discovered the Shroomery. I began slowly increasing doses too. 

I spent 6-8 months just doing minis, basically the comeup and not much more. This allowed me to learn anxiety management skills. I distinctly remember an early experience where I tried focused deep breathing and found success. I believe that this comeup anxiety is us plugging into our bodies and the universe more deeply, which can be unnerving.

I was incredibly grateful for the healing that these experiences brought and resolved to appreciate all of it, even the largely underwhelming journeys on small doses. It took me more than a year of weekly+ work to get to level 3 and another year to attempt level 4 and above.

This allowed me to deal with my trauma in small bites, while building confidence. As the experiences deepened, larger chunks became easier to chew.

When I was in the early stages, I would just go about normal life during these mild enhancements. As doses increased, I began to focus on the process and dedicate time and space to it.

This included shifting dosing times to mornings, which allowed me to maintain my circadian rhythms better than late doses that affected sleep patterns. I also started listening to the mushrooms and learning how to better understand their teachings.

Part of this listening was to respect the body feelings. I get a distinct muscle relaxity from fungi that I used to associate with weakness and fatigue. Now I believe it is an essential component of the healing process. Instead of fighting the urge to lay down, I embraced it.

My mental health improved dramatically, but then I began noticing body and mind improvements too. Inflammation faded. Encroaching neuropathy reversed. Energy levels, reflexes and athletic function increased. I was clearer mentally and learning new things was easier. I am in my mid fifties and play/perform more like I did decades ago. Neuroplasticity and neurogenesis seem to work together.

I also noticed a new level of digestion, featuring more efficient use of calories and a healthier appetite. I needed less food and made smarter choices. Clean power flowed.

Early nausea and occasional purges faded, as the mushrooms encouraged a better gut biome. There is evidence that serotonin receptors in the gut are reduced/impeded by excess sugar and fat and especially by alcohol.

Psilocybin fungi seem to support serotonin gut receptors. My mood, emotional regulation and brain function continued to grow.

I think we’re missing some important healing mechanisms in our gut and hope that future studies focus on this.

Late in 2023, I started having neck pain, primarily from poor posture using our weapons of mass distraction and manipulation. Tech neck.

I was already in a ritual of asking for specific help from the mushrooms, but usually in the mental health realm. I addressed my neck during a preparation session and was not prepared for what happened next.

During the comeup, the mushrooms told me to start massaging my neck. First, it was just a normal rub, but soon my fingers, hands and neck worked together in ways I never learned before.

While I was meditating about other things, unconsciously the fascia knots were broken up, I realigned my spine and relieved pressure. Muscles loosened and my entire skull and head were touched in just the right ways to massively release tension and improve nerve connections. A few times, particular adjustments elicited a dramatic reengagement of nerves and kicked off brief overwhelming euphorias.

I moved down to my shoulders and got to work there, again without any conscious focus. I became aerobic from the effort and stayed in this heightened state for the next two hours, performing aggressive body work from toes to head and feeling better than I had in years. This included flexing and extending all my muscles and joints.

By this point in my fungi relationship, I was also trying to prepare for experiences with a workout and lots of hydration. Physical activity is just starting to get attention as a booster for psychedelics, but I can confirm that it is very effective.

A workout does a few things to help. It primes your breathing and prepares you for success during the comeup. It also engages your body-mind linkages with healthy movement.

After this first body work experience, I felt taller, more relaxed and stronger than ever. It was eye opening and encouraging.

I started paying attention to the factors that led to this breakthrough and trying to repeat them. I have been quite successful in this process and now have over a hundred journeys that have very similar patterns and outcomes. This is what my original post in this thread described.

To add fuel to the discussion, last summer I had an over the bars fall while mountain biking. I injured my hand/wrist, chest, face, neck and got a concussion.

I used subsequent sessions to realign my neck and work on my hand. Both injuries saw quick improvement. I had good results recovering from the concussion in these journeys too.

My goal for sharing all this is to remind that our understanding of psilocybin fungi is wildly incomplete and there are potentially major health benefits that we should be studying, both individually and in wider studies. I believe that these fungi will prove to be a vital part of our diet.

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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: Ralph W. Llama] * 1
    #29542319 -

With some photo reportage this would make a great book!
good work Ralph!


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #29542743 -

Yes I found it to be a fascinating writeup, and an extra thanks for making it so detailed. Really cool how you are using and exploring the space, and how it came to you too. I’ve never really considered doing physical body healing as a part of the process, although now I write that, I’m sure I’ve read it another time on here long ago.

Hopefully it’s a concept that‘s tucked itself at the back of the brain to come up and experiment with another time! My shoulders are fucked, they could do with some mushroom therapy :lol:

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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: nuds]
    #29546254 -

Thank you for the kind words and reminder to put some pictures in to illustrate.


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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: Ralph W. Llama] * 1
    #29546353 -

My first experience of samadhi on the cushion was brief and surprising.  And chasing it has often been a hinderance, even though after many more years of practice I have a better understanding of what happened and how to cultivate it.

So I take you can't step in the same river twice to mean expectations are something to let go of.  They're a place my mind gets sticky.  Grasps.  Reifies experience.  Builds pride.  Etc. etc.

Flow states are like water.  The river is us and every cell is changing.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: tree frog] * 1
    #29560286 -

Thank you for your thoughts, Tree Frog.

Flow is one of the defining aspects of my life. As a sker and mountain biker, I have chased it, cultivated it and found it regularly. This is said with full humility and respect for the process, practice and learning to move consistently through inconsistent terrain while accepting a significant degree of risk.

For me, it’s not about the expectation of finding flow, it’s the work to achieve it and recognizing my active role in getting there. The more I connect, the more natural it becomes, but always takes significant involvement.

I am trying to apply the structure of learning a flow state athletic sport to creating consistently positive healing psilocybin journeys.

Music is another great teacher for building flow. Learning to sing, drum, play and dance well take time and effort.

You have to start small, build techniques and do things over and over until the moves become part of you. Music is also one of the most connective flow states we can experience. This is a cool rundown. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10605363/

Switching gears, I think the bodywork component of these repeatable adventures is key to helping me stay healthy at a small price. I can’t afford to get a 2 hour professional massage weekly. Frankly, Incorporating this practice into my trips is better than any massage I have ever gotten.

Plus there’s the aerobic stretching, flextending and realignment  benefits. I believe psilocybin’s neurogenic properties are encouraged through this focused effort too.

This medicine is cheap to produce and can be grown almost anywhere by pretty much anyone. If the mouse and human cell studies prove psilocybin to be as effective as they suggest, we’re looking at a hugely impactful affordable health enhancement with broad application.

Finding ways to safely and reliably introduce people to psilocybin is what I hoping to forward.

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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: Ralph W. Llama] * 1
    #29560454 -

Yeah I think anything that applies mindfulness of the body especially and psychedelics can be immensely beneficial.

Mushrooms help me remember to yawn and generally to stretch.  And I've had several significant DMT breakthroughs by turning my attention over to the somatic experience.  Stuff that's had a lasting impact on how I relate to myself in regards to mind/body dualism.

Also I primarily practice mindfulness meditation, so a lot of body awareness practice.

Walking meditation on mushrooms is also lovely.  Especially barefoot if the weather is nice.

Of course dancing too :smile:


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: tree frog]
    #29562266 -

you know dualism aint that bad

as long as you have the upflow and downflow at the same time, the inward and the outward...

not so much that there is a neutralization, but there is an intensification of presence


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Repeatable Experiences [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #29563527 -

I used to have a lot of self consciousness in regard to my body.  Descartes dualiam to the point of disassociation.

Now there's more trust in my muscle memory and the rest of my nervous system.  DMT + LSD and a favorite song.  Thought the elves were puppeting my body around the room.  Dancing felt like a wonderful stretch.

But another way to frame it is that I was learning how to do a somatic release and trust my body.  A flow state, rather than elves (maybe they were subconscious processes in my nervous system all along lol)

When I dance now it's more like nudges of intention toward new and interesting things, getting out of my own way mentally, and monitoring so I don't overdo it.

So yeah, it's more presence.  Less worry.  Getting out of my own way.  There's still the inward and outward.  Before it was mostly inward.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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