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Offlinekubix
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my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experiences
    #3024626 - 08/19/04 07:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hi

First of all, I would like to present myself.
I am an 18 years old student from southeastern Brazil, and I've been extensively reading general info (both scientific and just plain relatories made by users) for about 10 months.
I drink alcohol occasionally (something like every 3 weeks, or more, sometimes), and I seldom smoke marijuana (maybe once every 2 months or anything that goes more or less by that), even though i enjoy.
Before I had my first marijuana experience, I readed for months lots of information about it, jsut to make sure that I wouldnt f'up with myself or anything like that, and also to enjoy it better- well, and so I'm doing with shrooms- which is the farthest that I'm going on my mind-altering experiences (Used to be interested in LSD, but i think its a bit too heavy and risky, and it is not the kind of experience that i'm looking for. Anyway, I will never touch other stuff, since I don't wann risk myself.)
I haven't any kind of mental ilness, problem, disorder or whatever you liek to call (i'm jsut geeky) it neither I take any kind of mind-altering medicine. I have one uncle with social phobia and manic depression, but thats an isolated case in the family.
The more I read about shrooms, the more I learn about it. However, some doubts persist, and new ones have appeared.
So, may I ask you-
-Could I acquire HPPD after my first experience with mushrooms? (I'm talking about a controlled dosis situation). I wouldnt find HPPD enjoying, I had some ear damage problems some time ago and the noises i used to hear werent particulary exciting, and HPPD seems to be frightening
-Is it true that psychedelics can trigger mental illnesses on some people? Does it happens only with intensive and frequent use?
-I have heard about people who never came back from trips. Still, i face it more as an urban legend, but could some one enlight me on such qestion?

I used to be not afraid of our little fungi friends some time ago (when I knew the shroomery), but I've readed such doubts in brazilian shroom communities, and the answers for them nfortunately were unsatisfying.
I am aware of the power of our little friends, even though I plan to use it more for entertaiment than for learning (well, it depends of which corse the experience takes. i'm only saying this because i got fed up of marijuana-stoned friends who try to give pointless advices and opinions about my life that keeps me annoying- not because such things hurt me, or because the show that im wrong or wnything, but simply because my mind, even after i smoke marijuana, keeps a real sharp edge reagrding my logical/rational thoughts, and i see crudely (unfortunately, i think. it somehow annoys me cuz it spoils athe relaxment part of the experience) how non-sense, stupid and pointless are the things they are talking about. Well, I hope i dont get that kidn of stuff with shrooms anyway, but apart from my doubts, im very self confident about the experience and the way i should conduct it.

Peace, fellas

greetings from good old Brazil, I hope that your shroomy souls can enlight my pathway to the alternative and wonderful fungi world.


Edited by kubix (08/19/04 07:25 PM)


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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experie [Re: kubix]
    #3024703 - 08/19/04 07:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hi,

I'm new to Shroomery too but it seems to be a great board so i'm sure more experienced peeps (in shrooming) will give a better answer than me. My approach to drug use is very similar to yours, except with weed... that was a spur of the moment thing at uni last year. But I thoroughly researched shrooms before trying them and had much the same worries you had. So long as you make sure of a few things, there is very little risk.

Make sure you get shrooms from a good source and only try 20g max for your first time (2g dry). I tried 12g and had a very light giggly trip for a few hours. Once you know whether or not you're one of the rare people with extreme sensitivity to psilocybin you can then experiment upwards if you aren't. There are no long term negative effects so long as you treat the shrooms with respect and safety. I'd suggest you have a very close mate around too, someone who either wants to trip with you or is completely accepting and understanding.

I've only had one trip that turned sour on 30g of equadorian by a beach. 7 hours of incredible euphoria followed by a horrible half an hour come down with nightmare visuals but the reason for that was because I did too much and I spent the last 30 minutes indoors. I don't kno what you're preference is, but outdoors all the way. I feel sick doing shrooms indoors. Just remember that trips always end, as lame as that may be sometimes :P

Good luck shrooming


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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experiences [Re: kubix]
    #3024739 - 08/19/04 07:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

give shrooms a try, let your hair down and try something new every once in a while  :smile:


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experiences [Re: kubix]
    #3024757 - 08/19/04 07:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"-Could I acquire HPPD after my first experience with mushrooms? (I'm talking about a controlled dosis situation)."

IN my opinion, HPPD is a fucking joke. When you take psychedelics and hallucinate, you experience hallucinating. When you experience something, you can remember it. When you can remember things, you can semi re-experience them with just your mind.

That being said, yeah its possible you may see shit after just your first time, but I didn't.

"-Is it true that psychedelics can trigger mental illnesses on some people?"

Yeah if their mind is already fucked up, it can surface their main problems very easily and very effectively.

"-I have heard about people who never came back from trips. Still, i face it more as an urban legend, but could some one enlight me on such qestion?"

I know nobody who has taken mushrooms and not come back down.

OK man now let me give you my opinion. You sound way too paranoid about shrooms to really enjoy them. What are you looking for? You are a bit young and it sounds like you are a bit naieve. I am not trying to offend you, just trying to feel you out here. You understand psychedelics turn you completely insane for several hours, right?

Ask yourself what you are looking for. When I did, my answer was "well I'm looking for anything!" so I did them.

If you're looking for something too specific from the mushroom, it will probably give you the exact opposite. Be ready for anything and accept whatever starts happening on the trip as normal. Have a close friend around and I wouldn't recommend going out into public on the first trip.

It is cool that you are practicing moderation with your pot smoking.

If you get into mushrooms, I would do as you are doing with the pot and not trip often at all. The longer you wait in between trips the more interesting each trip will be.

Make sure your homework's done, student, and that you are really ready to experience things that nobody can describe to you and that may scare the shit out of you. It could be the scarriest, happiest, most terrifyingly gloriously hiddeously beautiful experience of your life. Don't take that statement lightly, as mushrooms will leave a whole batch of interesting and inescapeable memories in your brain.

If you don't want your eyes opened yet, don't do them. I actually wish I had not done them so young (first time I was 17 I believe) to start off with, because I didn't really know what I was doing. I'm OK though :wink:

Don't take the trip reports too seriously because its impossible to explain. You can't explain to a blind man what vision is like.

lol well I've been ranting for long enough..

Regardless of which path you take, good luck and never put drugs ahead of your current goals


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experiences [Re: kubix]
    #3024827 - 08/19/04 08:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

>>>-Could I acquire HPPD after my first experience with mushrooms?

IMO, no.

>>>Is it true that psychedelics can trigger mental illnesses on some people?

Yes, this is a fact.

>>>Does it happens only with intensive and frequent use?

Nobody really knows.

>>>I have heard about people who never came back from trips.

I've known people who have never come back from trips LSD & have had life altering problems from shrooms. However, on the good side IMO these are people who did not know what they were doing and took very large doses.

I built up to large doses but I personally enjoy 10-20 grams (fresh). I have no need to go any harder than this. Some really mad stuff can happen 30g+ and it can be hard to handle but I've always riden through on the knowledge they can't harm me so sit back and have faith in yourself.

If you start off with like 10 grams fresh, that will allow you to safely experience mushrooms. Just don't go thinking "that was so good I'm gonna do 40grams!!!" build up slowly and carefully.


--------------------


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Offlinekubix
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experiences [Re: Strumpling]
    #3024850 - 08/19/04 08:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

well strumpling, thanks a lot for your advices.
I'm taking mushrooms just for the simple purpose of knowing, experiencing, first of all the whole potential and flexibility og the human mind. I want to knwo how the "Other Side" looks and feels like. I have a grat curiosity on seeing things. I guess this is not specific, it sounds to me like a pretty general thing. I haven't fear of the unknown cuz i know that i can control it too, but the possible consequences started to itch on my head. Im very fond of the mushrooms wnad what they can offer me.
I understand that psychedelics will give me a a high (both physically and mental) that i've never experienced and that i will never forget, but it looks to be safe (na di will do it in a group anyway)
I wasnt paranoid about ll that stuff, ya know. I actually think that i should have experienced them before this happened to me. But this onl happened to me recently, after I readed some unclarifying and rather nebulous posts on a brazilian shrooms forum, most by unexperienced people i guess. It only blended all the positive stuff i had in my mind about our friends.
Howecer, i want to do it differently- i want to do it in the right way, in the way it should be.
After i see how it is, i can plan more complex experiences


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Invisibleboeha
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experiences [Re: kubix]
    #3024934 - 08/19/04 08:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

One thing though: don't worry about it too much; you'll be fine as long as you got the set and setting right.

Just keep a happy mind, don't worry and you'll do just fine.

And chances are that you will like it very much! :smile:


--------------------
- turn on, tune in, drop out ...
- peace, love and understanding ...


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experiences [Re: kubix]
    #3024981 - 08/19/04 08:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

exactly. don't WORRY.

as soon as you start to worry during a trip it can get pretty creepy... even so, if you run into some creepiness, remember that its all normal


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Invisiblegdman
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experie [Re: kubix]
    #3024994 - 08/19/04 08:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

if I where you i would stop worrying so much, that initself can most definitly bring on a bad expiriance. I think you definitly should lighten up a little.


--------------------


Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve


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OfflineJaRRn
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experie [Re: gdman]
    #3025137 - 08/19/04 08:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Everything in moderation wont hurt.

Moderation is k3y.


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Invisiblemyndreach
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experiences [Re: kubix]
    #3027256 - 08/20/04 06:12 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hello friend and welcome to the boards! I've used mushrooms on and off for about 10 years. Let me say that I find a lot in common with you. I always research before trying something new, and often get teased for it, but hey, later on when people are wondering something, who do they ask? Yep, me, and then they're happy I looked into things.

The stories, as far as I know, about people becoming permanently insane from tripping are just urban myth. I have never met anyone like this, nor met anyone I trusted who knew someone personally that this happenned to. It's always "A friend of this guy I know..." One of the common thoughts when tripping is "Oh crap, I really screwed myself up...am I ever going to come back down?!?!?!" If you talk to experienced trippers, you will find that most have had this trip from time to time. Once you become more experienced and knowledgable, you realize this isn't possible, and that trip ceases to be an element of your trips.

As far as HPPD, no, I don't think you could after one try. After all my uses, all I experience is a slight tracer effect that is only there when I concentrate on it (say, by waving my hand around), but I think that is from my uses of LSD in the past. I agree with you that LSD is tougher to assimilate than psilocybin. It is more "abbrasive" if you know what I mean. The day after an LSD trip, I would often just feel hung over, and detached from reality a bit. My friends and I called this "LSD-over". The worst I've had from shrooms is a slight tiredness the next day from a lack of good sleep. I usually feel refreshed, cleansed, and more intouch with the world around me the next day.

As far as mental issues being triggered, yes, I can see how that is possible. Hallucinogens dig deep down into your psyche and dig up things hidden there. That's what is so great about them. They are the single most powerful theraputic tool available, imho. With lsd, issues are dug up and without much effort, they are just there and nothing is done with them often, so lsd seems much more likely to cause problems. With psilocybin, the issues are dug up, and often there is an inner voice that guides you (especially at higher doses) and helps you deal with these issues. In this example, you can see how psilocybin is better.

However, with any worries of mental problems, start with a small dose, and work your way up. My family has a couple past issues with depression (we're quite emotional), and there have been 2 suicides in my extended family over the last couple decades. I have never experienced problems with psychadelics though. It's all about set and setting when you trip, and how well you understand yourself.

Also remember, most active compounds of mushrooms are out of your system in 72 hours, with the rest being gone within roughly a week depending on metabolism. They are physically harmless (unless you ate your body weight in shrooms lol). In fact, the only reason people throw up sometimes is out of fear. There is no physiological reason that psilocybin mushrooms would cause nausea. It's all mental (as opposed to peyote or morning glory seeds or ayahuasca).


Edited by myndreach (08/20/04 06:15 AM)


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Invisibleutopianglory
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experie [Re: kubix]
    #3028282 - 08/20/04 01:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well Syd Barrett is a good example of what "can" happen.

I think the most important thing is that these concerns are put to rest before the day you do them arrives and you start the trip relaxed. Its hard to really imagine what it feels like being on mushrooms until you do it. There is always the risk you will get burnt and then spend some time overcoming this, but don't despair, everybody who has done mushrooms enough have had their moments of doubt. But these moments of doubt are character defining and will strengthen you both in trip and out.

The whole mental problems thing doesn not concern me because you sound like a pretty together person however you may qualify as someone who might find it a little overwhelming having your reality bent for a few hours. The most obvious thing is you must not do them on your own. Positive reinforcement is integral at the start.

Don't do them when you have problems in your life you want to solve. Your mind will wander on the drug and in a much more emotional state negative things can be amplified but again, its all part of the journey and the mushrooms are there to bring enlightenment. Often they will give you direction and suggest the things in your life you would like to resolve.


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Offlinekubix
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experie [Re: utopianglory]
    #3031758 - 08/21/04 08:45 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks a lot for all of your advices.
Things have a cleared a bit to me. Now, I don't think that they would be harmful to me since a)i do things with moderation, and so i will do with shrooms (maybe 4 times a year looks more than enough?)
b) I personally recognize that I dont have any tendencies, that i'm not prone to mental ilnesses (schizo, depression, manic depression, social phobia, whatever... i've readed and learned these days some good stuff on that), and that i'm an emotionally balanced person (even if sometimes i get very pissed off, i do recognize that i am very capable of managing my feelings in a way that i won't do any crazy shit or harm myself or anyone) c)I know whatim looking for when using shrooms, and I know that, above all, its just a TRIP, nothing is real at all, and I can manage it, and I can even change its course. I dont think i wil lack judgement because I know with what im dealing with (well, I think I know, dont wanna sound arrogant lol). I don't have any problems currently (things are jsut a little undefined on my life, but I dont face it as problem but as very big range of open opportunities), and I never had what you guys would call serious problems (nah, just mind-bugging shallow issues)
Any other advices, peeps?
thx a lot,

[]s


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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experie [Re: kubix]
    #3031766 - 08/21/04 08:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

My only advice is go in to the experience with no or as few expectations as you possibly can. Because you might get tense when they get cast aside or freak out a little. The best advice is to go in and jst let go. You won't be in control of the trip and its important that you jst recognise that and let it take you where it takes you. If you fight it in any way you might have a bad time. The beginning of a bad trip will often be marked by the thought "what have i done to to myself? did i take too much?" running over and over. Just try to remember that and remind yourself that you jst have to relax and then let the fun begin :laugh:

How much are you taking? 2g?


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Offlinekubix
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experie [Re: Zoso_UK]
    #3031782 - 08/21/04 09:11 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

well, i still don't know what quantity i will take...you refer to 2g dried, right?
I'm prolly taking fresh stuff, and im prolly going to cultivate (psilocybe cubensis, seems like they are the easiest to cultivate, and they are the most common int he region where i live) with someone else.
I plan to eat maybe 4 of them (with caps), that seems enough for achieving even a level 3 trip


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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experie [Re: kubix]
    #3031864 - 08/21/04 10:10 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

measure out 20g max for your first trip. cubensis are easy to cultivate, jst make sure they get lots of water but not too much...i've learned both the hard way! too little = low yield. too much = mould forms.

good luck


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Invisibleboeha
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experie [Re: kubix]
    #3031872 - 08/21/04 10:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

kubix said:
any other advices?





Yes; stop worrying!  :wink:
I think the mushrooms themselves will teach you how the experience works. You can write 5 books on how it feels; but even that wouldn't quite resemble the actual feeling.

My advice: prepare your set and setting!

- eat healthy food
- prepare playlist of good music (this you will find in "trip tips"
- prepare a recipe (because you will find out they don't taste very good, but there are ways to cover that)
- write a 'security note'; stating that you're tripping and that you DON'T ever call the police :wink:


And another thing that I don't often read here; the come-up is actually the worst part of the trip; there you may find nausea or unpleasant feelings; just know that you just have to wait!!! (The peak and the afterglow are like a rollercoaster ride in heaven)

Just be careful; and be happy.
And if you are wondering what you will think after your trip: The first time (although I did a large dose, I myself don't like that moderation thing; some people just like to dive into new experiences instead of a small leap) I felt totally reborn and I was so glad I tried them; they're like some sort of earthly medicine that heals your mind. (but my guess is that you now have no idea of what I'm talkin' about :smile: )


--------------------
- turn on, tune in, drop out ...
- peace, love and understanding ...


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Offlineshaman2b
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experie [Re: boeha]
    #3032116 - 08/21/04 12:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

All good advice. My only comment is on the music choices. I've read through quite a few of the Trip Tips suggestions on music, and qutie a lot of it would be disturbing to me while tripping. Music is such a personal thing, and can impact your trip in a very profound/substantial way.

I suggest you compile some of you favorite music. Be cautious with songs that have depressing lyrics or a "down" beat. It will really mess with your head. Personally, I find that native american flutes & drumming help to create a positive vibe.

If you fined yourself reacting negatively to the music, it's real easy: just change it!

Have fun, kubix, and don't forget to file a trip report!


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Invisibleboeha
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experie [Re: shaman2b]
    #3032188 - 08/21/04 12:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

-> Yeah, but you can give advice on what would be happy music...

I mean:
classical music like Vivaldi (4 seasons) or some sitar music like Ravi Shankar; you really can't go wrong with that...

That music sounds like 1000 times better while tripping, and not a single negative vibe!

( It has to be said; I have never liked electronic music while tripping; many people recommend Shpongle; I find it way to hectic...)

Try these songs too:
- Creedence clearwater revival: Lookin' out my backdoor
- Janis Joplin : Son of a preacher man
- Bob Marley : catch a fire

But I do agree that you have to like the songs while sober; so you don't have any unpleasant surprises while tripping!

[ I left a metal-song of Megadeth by accident in my playlist once, needless to say, it scared the living piss out of me; luckily it didn't have a very big impact... ]

Have fun selecting the music essentials!!!


O yeah; extra tips/advice:
- bring your favorite teddybear from your childhood; for me; it always brings back sweet memories!
- have some plants/water near you: you will like nature.


--------------------
- turn on, tune in, drop out ...
- peace, love and understanding ...


Edited by boeha (08/21/04 12:57 PM)


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: my brain keeps itching- doubts about psychedelic experie [Re: kubix]
    #3032195 - 08/21/04 12:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Just so you know, two dried grams on your first trip will not be everything mushrooms have to offer... it will just be kind of a taste so if it seems lame don't worry that's just a preview; don't let it turn you off


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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