seldom seen said:

I got into LC's to do bottle grows, and while I do more g2g when working with grains, I do like the mechanics of working in the SAB if I'm going LC to grain.

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tultedspoon said:

I only struggle with the fruiting process, my jars are clean my PF jars look great. 2 batches ago I did of 8 only 1 got contamed and I tried to save it by scooping out the black mold of 1/2 the jar but it came back strong but the mycelium patches also grew strong and have held off the mold. I have a few big circles of mycelium marshmallows where I inoculated. The black mold I think came from the dry verm when I overstuffed my pot. I have actually used this jar as an incubation jar and I put it in the middle of all my other jars for some extra warmth. The amount of moisture that is going on inside this jar is crazy and it is sweating like crazy. I made sure I tightened down the lid good.

Last 12 jars I did I only did 3 at a time in the pot instead of 4 and so far no contamination. I don't use any SAB, I flip a big monotub lid upside down and wipe it down with iso before. I do this right on top of my bed with the fan off.

My panaeolus species is so freaking picky they want everything perfect. The jar part is easy, it's the fruiting part I am trying to dial in.

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B Traven said:

Ok, quick question.

And I really don't mean to be disrespectful in asking.

I still haven't found any good reason to use Liquid Cultures, Liquid Inoculant, or a Flowhood.

I can see how, in principle, these would all be useful if working at a particular scale or with particular types of vessels. But I haven't yet crossed a line where I thought, "man, I need these things." My time and effort bottlenecks are always on the other end- first with getting stuff spawned, then with getting stuff picked and processed.

So, can anyone tell me SPECIFICALLY why they use any of these, and what caused them to decide to switch?

Again, not trying to be disrespectful, but "I've always done it like this and it works" is not a satisfying answer to me.

---

For me:

LC and LI are convenient for medium and long term storage, and I like that I can just make the LC or LI when I have a few minutes and it'll be ready whenever I want to inoculate grain or bottles (weeks or months later). I don't really like to use overgrown plates for that, though they'd probably also be just fine. I only make them with clean plates and I never test them before putting to grain (don't tell anyone).

I bought an FFU because I found the SAB uncomfortable for longer sessions. Very sweaty in the gloves, and it often got pretty hard to see through with condensation. And I had excess disposable income. Once I had it there was no turning back - it's so much more ergonomic. I can take a plate lid off, flip it over next to the plate, and not worry about contamination. Really nice for making a bunch of smash wedge baggies for giveaways, and for cutting up plates for LI and cryovial stasis. And it lets me use supplemented bags for gourmet - bags in a SAB sounds like a nightmare for me (I know some people here get by with it, though). Condensation on poured plates clears up super quick in front of the FFU too.

I'd use an SAB again if I couldn't have the FFU, but I would not readily give it up.

Sulfurshelfsean said:

He seems to do pretty good with just this *shrug* I think he'd just quit if he was getting bad results.

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Phaethon said:

B Traven said:

Ok, quick question.

And I really don't mean to be disrespectful in asking.

I still haven't found any good reason to use Liquid Cultures, Liquid Inoculant, or a Flowhood.

I can see how, in principle, these would all be useful if working at a particular scale or with particular types of vessels. But I haven't yet crossed a line where I thought, "man, I need these things." My time and effort bottlenecks are always on the other end- first with getting stuff spawned, then with getting stuff picked and processed.

So, can anyone tell me SPECIFICALLY why they use any of these, and what caused them to decide to switch?

Again, not trying to be disrespectful, but "I've always done it like this and it works" is not a satisfying answer to me.

---

For me:

LC and LI are convenient for medium and long term storage, and I like that I can just make the LC or LI when I have a few minutes and it'll be ready whenever I want to inoculate grain or bottles (weeks or months later). I don't really like to use overgrown plates for that, though they'd probably also be just fine. I only make them with clean plates and I never test them before putting to grain (don't tell anyone).

I bought an FFU because I found the SAB uncomfortable for longer sessions. Very sweaty in the gloves, and it often got pretty hard to see through with condensation. And I had excess disposable income. Once I had it there was no turning back - it's so much more ergonomic. I can take a plate lid off, flip it over next to the plate, and not worry about contamination. Really nice for making a bunch of smash wedge baggies for giveaways, and for cutting up plates for LI and cryovial stasis. And it lets me use supplemented bags for gourmet - bags in a SAB sounds like a nightmare for me (I know some people here get by with it, though). Condensation on poured plates clears up super quick in front of the FFU too.

I'd use an SAB again if I couldn't have the FFU, but I would not readily give it up.

---

B Traven said:

Phaethon said:

B Traven said:

Ok, quick question.

And I really don't mean to be disrespectful in asking.

I still haven't found any good reason to use Liquid Cultures, Liquid Inoculant, or a Flowhood.

I can see how, in principle, these would all be useful if working at a particular scale or with particular types of vessels. But I haven't yet crossed a line where I thought, "man, I need these things." My time and effort bottlenecks are always on the other end- first with getting stuff spawned, then with getting stuff picked and processed.

So, can anyone tell me SPECIFICALLY why they use any of these, and what caused them to decide to switch?

Again, not trying to be disrespectful, but "I've always done it like this and it works" is not a satisfying answer to me.

---

For me:

LC and LI are convenient for medium and long term storage, and I like that I can just make the LC or LI when I have a few minutes and it'll be ready whenever I want to inoculate grain or bottles (weeks or months later). I don't really like to use overgrown plates for that, though they'd probably also be just fine. I only make them with clean plates and I never test them before putting to grain (don't tell anyone).

I bought an FFU because I found the SAB uncomfortable for longer sessions. Very sweaty in the gloves, and it often got pretty hard to see through with condensation. And I had excess disposable income. Once I had it there was no turning back - it's so much more ergonomic. I can take a plate lid off, flip it over next to the plate, and not worry about contamination. Really nice for making a bunch of smash wedge baggies for giveaways, and for cutting up plates for LI and cryovial stasis. And it lets me use supplemented bags for gourmet - bags in a SAB sounds like a nightmare for me (I know some people here get by with it, though). Condensation on poured plates clears up super quick in front of the FFU too.

I'd use an SAB again if I couldn't have the FFU, but I would not readily give it up.

---

Damn, alright, this really got to me.

I always kinda figured an FFU was a quasi-necessity for doing larger bags, I certainly didn't enjoy my nascent attempts to do them in my SAB.

But now that I think of it, I really don't do all that much sterile work. I've always thought, well, why on earth would I need to do a larger volume of material than I'm already doing? But I wasn't thinking at all about stuff like setting up wedges to send out, taking prints, etc. And I guess in my own insular universe, I also don't care too much about assuring the quality of any one wedge or plate, but if I stopped being such a selfish bastard and started shipping wedges out, that calculus would change.

That's also a compelling reason to use an LC or LI. I get super paranoid about overgrown plates, and usually end up doing a few transfers before dropping them to grain again. A squirt from a refrigerated LC would be pretty darn convenient. And if I had a few different culture lines with LC versions of themselves, then yeah. I can see how it wouldn't be too bad to just test them directly on grain. Wouldn't be all that different from my current survival-of-the-fittest approach when I'm moving plates to grain and seeing how they do.

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Carpo said:

I just plan on using a still air box on a clean surface. I am getting a spores print that came off a white mushroom. I know theres no real chance of getting another leucistic fruit off of them but if I did and I cloned it would I get a tub of white fruits. The strain was x7x+.

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B Traven said:

Ok, quick question.

And I really don't mean to be disrespectful in asking.

I still haven't found any good reason to use Liquid Cultures, Liquid Inoculant, or a Flowhood.

I can see how, in principle, these would all be useful if working at a particular scale or with particular types of vessels. But I haven't yet crossed a line where I thought, "man, I need these things." My time and effort bottlenecks are always on the other end- first with getting stuff spawned, then with getting stuff picked and processed.

So, can anyone tell me SPECIFICALLY why they use any of these, and what caused them to decide to switch?

Again, not trying to be disrespectful, but "I've always done it like this and it works" is not a satisfying answer to me.

---

AZ Starman2112 said:

B Traven said:

Phaethon said:

B Traven said:

Ok, quick question.

And I really don't mean to be disrespectful in asking.

I still haven't found any good reason to use Liquid Cultures, Liquid Inoculant, or a Flowhood.

I can see how, in principle, these would all be useful if working at a particular scale or with particular types of vessels. But I haven't yet crossed a line where I thought, "man, I need these things." My time and effort bottlenecks are always on the other end- first with getting stuff spawned, then with getting stuff picked and processed.

So, can anyone tell me SPECIFICALLY why they use any of these, and what caused them to decide to switch?

Again, not trying to be disrespectful, but "I've always done it like this and it works" is not a satisfying answer to me.

---

For me:

LC and LI are convenient for medium and long term storage, and I like that I can just make the LC or LI when I have a few minutes and it'll be ready whenever I want to inoculate grain or bottles (weeks or months later). I don't really like to use overgrown plates for that, though they'd probably also be just fine. I only make them with clean plates and I never test them before putting to grain (don't tell anyone).

I bought an FFU because I found the SAB uncomfortable for longer sessions. Very sweaty in the gloves, and it often got pretty hard to see through with condensation. And I had excess disposable income. Once I had it there was no turning back - it's so much more ergonomic. I can take a plate lid off, flip it over next to the plate, and not worry about contamination. Really nice for making a bunch of smash wedge baggies for giveaways, and for cutting up plates for LI and cryovial stasis. And it lets me use supplemented bags for gourmet - bags in a SAB sounds like a nightmare for me (I know some people here get by with it, though). Condensation on poured plates clears up super quick in front of the FFU too.

I'd use an SAB again if I couldn't have the FFU, but I would not readily give it up.

---

Damn, alright, this really got to me.

I always kinda figured an FFU was a quasi-necessity for doing larger bags, I certainly didn't enjoy my nascent attempts to do them in my SAB.

But now that I think of it, I really don't do all that much sterile work. I've always thought, well, why on earth would I need to do a larger volume of material than I'm already doing? But I wasn't thinking at all about stuff like setting up wedges to send out, taking prints, etc. And I guess in my own insular universe, I also don't care too much about assuring the quality of any one wedge or plate, but if I stopped being such a selfish bastard and started shipping wedges out, that calculus would change.

That's also a compelling reason to use an LC or LI. I get super paranoid about overgrown plates, and usually end up doing a few transfers before dropping them to grain again. A squirt from a refrigerated LC would be pretty darn convenient. And if I had a few different culture lines with LC versions of themselves, then yeah. I can see how it wouldn't be too bad to just test them directly on grain. Wouldn't be all that different from my current survival-of-the-fittest approach when I'm moving plates to grain and seeing how they do.

---

I have sent out a lot of wedges. All my wedges were from plates I cut into 8 pieces like a pizza pie. They were all transferred to tiny baggies inside de my SAB. They have all been pretty much clean and not only continued to grow myc in the baggies but some even pinned…or I guess got a bin! Like you guys have said it’s all in the methods and your work flow inside the SAB. And I’m not discounting a flow hood. I’d love to have one, but for now I can’t justify the cash outlay when my SAB hasn’t failed me yet.

---

B Traven said:

Phaethon said:

B Traven said:

Ok, quick question.

And I really don't mean to be disrespectful in asking.

I still haven't found any good reason to use Liquid Cultures, Liquid Inoculant, or a Flowhood.

I can see how, in principle, these would all be useful if working at a particular scale or with particular types of vessels. But I haven't yet crossed a line where I thought, "man, I need these things." My time and effort bottlenecks are always on the other end- first with getting stuff spawned, then with getting stuff picked and processed.

So, can anyone tell me SPECIFICALLY why they use any of these, and what caused them to decide to switch?

Again, not trying to be disrespectful, but "I've always done it like this and it works" is not a satisfying answer to me.

---

For me:

LC and LI are convenient for medium and long term storage, and I like that I can just make the LC or LI when I have a few minutes and it'll be ready whenever I want to inoculate grain or bottles (weeks or months later). I don't really like to use overgrown plates for that, though they'd probably also be just fine. I only make them with clean plates and I never test them before putting to grain (don't tell anyone).

I bought an FFU because I found the SAB uncomfortable for longer sessions. Very sweaty in the gloves, and it often got pretty hard to see through with condensation. And I had excess disposable income. Once I had it there was no turning back - it's so much more ergonomic. I can take a plate lid off, flip it over next to the plate, and not worry about contamination. Really nice for making a bunch of smash wedge baggies for giveaways, and for cutting up plates for LI and cryovial stasis. And it lets me use supplemented bags for gourmet - bags in a SAB sounds like a nightmare for me (I know some people here get by with it, though). Condensation on poured plates clears up super quick in front of the FFU too.

I'd use an SAB again if I couldn't have the FFU, but I would not readily give it up.

---

Damn, alright, this really got to me.

I always kinda figured an FFU was a quasi-necessity for doing larger bags, I certainly didn't enjoy my nascent attempts to do them in my SAB.

But now that I think of it, I really don't do all that much sterile work. I've always thought, well, why on earth would I need to do a larger volume of material than I'm already doing? But I wasn't thinking at all about stuff like setting up wedges to send out, taking prints, etc. And I guess in my own insular universe, I also don't care too much about assuring the quality of any one wedge or plate, but if I stopped being such a selfish bastard and started shipping wedges out, that calculus would change.

That's also a compelling reason to use an LC or LI. I get super paranoid about overgrown plates, and usually end up doing a few transfers before dropping them to grain again. A squirt from a refrigerated LC would be pretty darn convenient. And if I had a few different culture lines with LC versions of themselves, then yeah. I can see how it wouldn't be too bad to just test them directly on grain. Wouldn't be all that different from my current survival-of-the-fittest approach when I'm moving plates to grain and seeing how they do.

---

Re. prints, I usually set them up in front of the FFU, on the inside of a lid of a shoebox, cover the lid with the shoebox itself (upside-down), and leave it elsewhere to do its thing. After the printing period (6-12 hours for first print, 12-24 for second), I open in front of the FFU and leave the foil open to dry for a few minutes before folding. But to be honest, I found the SAB a little less fiddly for prints, using Bod's proper printing tek. I'm just too lazy to set it up again...plus I can stack the printing shoeboxes and do more at a time than I could in the SAB.

No need to refrigerate LC in my experience (viable after at least a year even in a bottle, probably much more if there's no air like in a cryovial). Use a low nutrient ratio (0.2%) to avoid overgrowth. Some cultures (oysters especially) will still try to grow on the surface, but you can just shake it up.

AZ Starman2112 said:

I have sent out a lot of wedges. All my wedges were from plates I cut into 8 pieces like a pizza pie. They were all transferred to tiny baggies inside de my SAB. They have all been pretty much clean and not only continued to grow myc in the baggies but some even pinned…or I guess got a bin! Like you guys have said it’s all in the methods and your work flow inside the SAB. And I’m not discounting a flow hood. I’d love to have one, but for now I can’t justify the cash outlay when my SAB hasn’t failed me yet.

---

Oh yeah, for sure an SAB works for all these things. Even if you're thinking of it just for the gourmet bags, I'd recommend first just using unsupplemented fuel pellets, which you can inoculate in open air (1 lb / quart jar of spawn per 5 lb bag of substrate). Nobody should feel any pressure to go buy an FFU for 30x the cost of a 110 quart tub. It's basically an expensive cheat code.

RoscoeReturns said:

B Traven said:

Ok, quick question.

And I really don't mean to be disrespectful in asking.

I still haven't found any good reason to use Liquid Cultures, Liquid Inoculant, or a Flowhood.

I can see how, in principle, these would all be useful if working at a particular scale or with particular types of vessels. But I haven't yet crossed a line where I thought, "man, I need these things." My time and effort bottlenecks are always on the other end- first with getting stuff spawned, then with getting stuff picked and processed.

So, can anyone tell me SPECIFICALLY why they use any of these, and what caused them to decide to switch?

Again, not trying to be disrespectful, but "I've always done it like this and it works" is not a satisfying answer to me.

---

My answer is very similar to Phaethon’s. I grow gourmets just as much as actives. Nothing commercial, but I eat a lot of different mushrooms. The FFU makes working in bags tolerable. I did it in an SAB for a time, but it super sucks. I also work in a laminar flow hood all day at work, switching up sterile technique in an SAB was something I always had to think about. It made my mushroom clean work much more of a mental chore.

I don’t use LI at all, but I use a ton of LC. It’s great to make a batch and leave it sit, especially for edibles. It stores very well and is always ready to go. I don’t like having to move cultures every time they get to the edge of a plate. I also like to store cultures in cryovials so a squirt of LC makes it easy to put aside a culture.

Another thing I liked about LC when I first started using them was how easy it is to see bacterial contamination. I make low nutrient, crystal clear LC and any bacteria will turn it turbid in no time. Doesn’t help with mold, but I only make LC from clean agar so hopefully that’s not an issue. I was having some trouble with bacterial grains once upon a time, and I was never sure I didn’t have something riding along on my plates. With clear LC I knew it was my grain prep. It’s gotten better, and that really isn’t a reason for me to use LC any longer, but I still like for the other reasons I mentioned.

I should mention that I free pour or squirt LC into my grain jars. I’m not a fan of injection ports at all. This practice is much easier in front of a flow hood.

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