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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: LadysKnight] * 2
    #29075148 -

LadysKnight said:
Got you. Like everything, it comes down to intent. You are a connoisseur, and I am trying to save money on the beer bill. There are parallels to cultivation here as well. :cheers:


:cheers:  to you as well fellow homebrewer - I was also trying to save money on the beer bill... until I found out I like the tase of expensive beer :lol:  But whatever you do, DON'T get into brewing mead... The price of honey vs malt... :facepalm3: I shudder to think what I've spent on those brews over the years...

Anywho, two week old ochraceocentrata germ plate on 1.6% wheat malt extract agar:



Got some good rhizo growth to select from...


--------------------
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.  - J.R.R. Tolkien

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Carnonos] * 2
    #29075159 -

Carnonos said:
LadysKnight said:
Got you. Like everything, it comes down to intent. You are a connoisseur, and I am trying to save money on the beer bill. There are parallels to cultivation here as well. :cheers:


:cheers:  to you as well fellow homebrewer - I was also trying to save money on the beer bill... until I found out I like the tase of expensive beer :lol:  But whatever you do, DON'T get into brewing mead... The price of honey vs malt... :facepalm3: I shudder to think what I've spent on those brews over the years...

Anywho, two week old ochraceocentrata germ plate on 1.6% wheat malt extract agar:



Got some good rhizo growth to select from...


I started making mead before all grain. Have made many many delicious 6gal batches, for free. The catch is to have 2 friends with beehives that like mead.

Crappy pic tax that illustrates an earlier point about parallels. This is something I've been working with for several years that I like to call OFC (old fridge clone) that originally came from B+ or GT, been so long I can't recall.


--------------------
It takes guts to be
gentle and kind

Another way to live

Your ego is your nemesis.
Seek the truth tirelessly,
Even at the cost of your own sanity.
-fiddle_head

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Carnonos] * 1
    #29075161 -

I'm cleaning up P. subaeruginosa from a wild print. This is a T2 on GWA. It's obviously bacterial, but it also starts to look really weird. Like, it really doesn't look like my cyan, azure, ovoid or IWL mycelium. Is it the GWA?
A different wedge was put to woodchips for shits and giggles and grows beautiful rhizomorphic white mycelium. Should I just ditch this and start again? Is this even subarruginosa, or did I transfer mold?



(Yeah I know, it's on it's side. It just happened and I wasn't going to open the petri again to do something about it)

Edit: another plate. I am trying to do something about my crappy photo skills, but it's technology, so eh



--------------------
Species grown 2025-26
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29367720#29367720

Collection of trip reports
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29242884#29242884

Edited by Churpee Choozle (01/02/25 01:13 PM)

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Churpee Choozle] * 2
    #29075173 -

The part I can see looks correct.

I know plenty of people do fine with GWA, but after reading more about it, I gave it up.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28584286#28584286


--------------------
It takes guts to be
gentle and kind

Another way to live

Your ego is your nemesis.
Seek the truth tirelessly,
Even at the cost of your own sanity.
-fiddle_head

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: LadysKnight] * 1
    #29075178 -

Ah, Stipe always has these fucking great observations. It was organic rye though, so I guess / hope it wasn't treated with any biocide.


--------------------
Species grown 2025-26
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29367720#29367720

Collection of trip reports
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29242884#29242884

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Churpee Choozle] * 1
    #29075184 -

They just use organic approved treatments, still not good. But even if they don't use any, there's still a concentration of mycotoxic funk that's better served down the drain than in agar. I don't have time to troubleshoot variables.


--------------------
It takes guts to be
gentle and kind

Another way to live

Your ego is your nemesis.
Seek the truth tirelessly,
Even at the cost of your own sanity.
-fiddle_head

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: LadysKnight] * 2
    #29075185 -

:whathesaid:

People get away with it but there's better options with less to troubleshoot if things go awry. The above is why I recommend washing grains prior to prep, or as the first step in the prep process.

Those products are very common. Less common in bird feed but still present with certain brands.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 4
    #29075191 -

If you use packaged human food like gnocchi, you don't have to worry about remnant biocide. I just use my boil water and it works wonders.



--------------------
I call them Huskies cause they Mush!


The Official Wild Cubensis Thread
Instant Pot Agar
Gnocchi Water Agar
Let's Talk Cowtek

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #29075196 -

Seems fair. I read a lot about GWA and wanted to give it a try, as I had some rye soaking. I bought it from a local farmer but hey, what do I know about what he does with his produce.
Guess I'll make a new batch, BRF/Y or PDY and do some more transfers from T1.

This would be the most logical explanation for the weird growth? It looks really disorganized. I thought bacteria or perhaps just mold.


--------------------
Species grown 2025-26
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29367720#29367720

Collection of trip reports
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29242884#29242884

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Churpee Choozle]
    #29075201 -

I think you mentioned soaking, so could also be BLIS coumpoumds that result from fermentation, if you've let it sit long enough for fermentation to take place:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27777884#27777884

Things are a little more complicated than folks like to admit

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #29075212 -

Fermenting grains for mycological purporses seems counter-intuitive to say the least. (I read your thread about possible use of strains of Lactobacillus, that was really interesting, but fermenting would just result in mixed bacterial soup, adding nothing but biological load right. Right? Guess I'll be reading the rest of the thread you linked). It was an 18 hr soak in cold water, surely a different process than I use for fermenting, but enough for a fair bit of bacterial activity.

Oh well. Out with the GWA I guess


--------------------
Species grown 2025-26
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29367720#29367720

Collection of trip reports
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29242884#29242884

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Churpee Choozle] * 1
    #29075222 -

Yeah, those bacterial strains in question have been isolated and tested for effect. You can't just run any ol Bacilli, most are contaminant/competition. Fermentation can happen in 24 hours, thats why I soak for 18; it can happen inadvertently.

I wouldn't soak large grains, just bird feed.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #29075236 -

Tis a real interesting read though. Josex seems to depart from the false premise of near immortal endospores, only to discover his spawn isn't bacterial. Then he hydrates it by PCing at 28 PSI (presumably getting rid of the true baddies) and it's problem free. WTF. Still have tens of pages to go.

28 PSI. Not in my kitchen.

Edit: wait he uses LC because with LC you can visually confirm cleanliness? Whereas agar could hide contams? This shit gets wild

Sorry to get OT.


--------------------
Species grown 2025-26
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29367720#29367720

Collection of trip reports
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29242884#29242884

Edited by Churpee Choozle (01/02/25 02:39 PM)

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Churpee Choozle]
    #29075258 -

Endospores are only a myth for the OMC. The rest of the world understands that 15 mins at 121°C produces a log 6 reduction, and a 12 log at 30 mins with naked media.

2 hours at 121°C is going to denature proteins. Just because you have clean LC doesn't mean your grains aren't infected with VOC's, mycotoxins, BLIS, agro anti fungals, etc.
Thermophilic bacterial endospores are the least of our worries. We have the tools to deal with endospores, but does anyone consider the rest of the picture?

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 5
    #29075288 -

I try not to consider anything if I can help it


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
The 7 Edicts of Mushroom Cultivation as Decreed by Smellyhobbit

:kodama:


Anyone can get a canopy. But can you get what you want?

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #29075533 -

Quote:
VOC's, mycotoxins, BLIS, agro anti fungals, etc.


That sounds like some scary/hard to detect shit. I wonder if when buying that first 50lb bag of grain people unintentionally prevent cultures from reaching their full potential based on the source of grain.

Anyway I am bumping this thread to up my posts.

Here I have two plates which I have transferred from. Do you think - based on the transfer location - I will be able to save these cultures?


The plate on the left looks like it has a patch of identifiable myc (the area I transferred from), as for the rest of the plate, is that just mycelium showing differing growth patterns? is it mold? is it both?

Plate on the right: there is obvious mold on the left side of the plate. does that mean that that mold has sporulated and got mold spores on the areas I transferred? Has anyone had success transferring off a plate like that?















Moving on. What do you smart fellas think about these two?


Plate on the left: I took my transfers from the bottom wedge @ ~1 o'clock.

Same thing on the other plate, I transferred around 1:30 o'clock. right on that section of bright white growth with a definitive edge.

















Am I cooked? or is there hope for these plates. What do you think? Thanks.


--------------------
We stand on the shoulders of giants

Tek List

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Mids] * 1
    #29075687 -

Spend a long time reading the thread Stipe linked, learned a lot, frowned a lot, grew a lot more understanding for Stipe and his remarks about drug people and science.
Really interesting. Thought a lot about all stuff I use, tried to link mystery failures from the past to what I learned etc.
But this morning I realized that I dropped some ovoid myc in the jar that was used for pouring those GWA plates.

Checked it



The ovoid doesn't seem to be affected at all :confused:


--------------------
Species grown 2025-26
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29367720#29367720

Collection of trip reports
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29242884#29242884

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Churpee Choozle] * 5
    #29075808 -

Churpee Choozle said:
Josex seems to depart from the false premise of near immortal endospores, only to discover his spawn isn't bacterial.


He didn't start off this way. He was running that thread at the exact same time I was running my endospore threads. Josex was very pro endospore survival, I was obviously the opposite.

We dropped into each others threads as things went, lent our opinions and inaights and both learned a thing or two in the process. Josex and I disagreed but were able to collaborate and remain respectful and professional.

In the end Josex, and many others, came to realize that endospores are not invincible, they can be rendered sterile. There's far more going on with grains than what  meets the eye. Geography, local standards, production and handling of grains, including our own preparation methods, all play a role in the quility and suitability of the end product for our purposes; including the end consumer any particular manufacturer has in mind, which is almost never mushrooms.

The community was very much involved when those threads were being drafted, and edited as we went. We all learned a lot.

Good times.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #29075812 -

:josex:


--------------------
:hypnotoad:
Making Liquid Culture :  Go insane with LC
Mushboy likes these teks : Making shroom tea
Dank Education

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: mushboy]
    #29075815 -

I read the whole Josex grain thread a while back and it was cool to see how he realized his original hypothesis was wrong. I think in the end he said it was most likely just the specific grain batch/brand and the processes it went through before he bought it, right?

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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