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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: s240779]
    #28731956 -

You’re very good at posting a barrage of links and not summarising the ideas yourself.

How does this relate to the topic of crystal LSD vs LSD in solution?


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"God is an intelligible sphere, whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."

Llamando la Mareacion

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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: Bardy]
    #28731979 -

If even water has a usually-undetectable and not-yet-scientific structure, then maybe LSD does too. As the proponents are saying, this invisible structure still accounts for substantial differences in water quality, and so a similar phenomenon may account for quality differences of LSD.


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AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

Edited by s240779 (04/09/24 08:13 PM)

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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: s240779] * 3
    #28732088 -

But water doesn't have magical undetectable properties. The links you posted are part of an elaborate scam.


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The nearest we come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.

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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: Bardy]
    #28732777 -

the rate at which lsd molecules enter the brain is effected by the crystalline structure and how it breaks down

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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: Bardy]
    #28732782 -

the crystal structure also effects the way it is absorbed into a liquid and how it saturates which effects how its absorbed by the body and brain... not sure what you are confused about. if you dissolve any crystal in a solution and let the water evaporate your left with the same crystal

Edited by goldengifts (04/10/24 03:20 PM)

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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: goldengifts] * 3
    #28732801 -

Odd claims.

LSD is a chemical, it conforms to chemistry rules.


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The nearest we come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.

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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: goldengifts] * 1
    #28733055 -

goldengifts said:
....if you dissolve any crystal in a solution and let the water evaporate your left with the same crystal



Pretty sure the temperature of the air & solution, the time it takes for the solution to evaporate, and any movement/disturbances within the solution all have an influence on the structure/appearance of the crystal/substance once the solution has evaporated.

Sure it's the same "crystal/substance/material", but one can get a variety of shapes/sizes/macro structures in crystals simply by altering the variables mentioned above.





-OM

.


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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: openmind]
    #28733177 -

openmind said:
goldengifts said:
....if you dissolve any crystal in a solution and let the water evaporate your left with the same crystal



Pretty sure the temperature of the air & solution, the time it takes for the solution to evaporate, and any movement/disturbances within the solution all have an influence on the structure/appearance of the crystal/substance once the solution has evaporated.

Sure it's the same "crystal/substance/material", but one can get a variety of shapes/sizes/macro structures in crystals simply by altering the variables mentioned above.




-OM

.


Yeah, and it’s basically impossible to have the exact same crystal. Because of the shear number of molecules and potential contaminants that are in the crystal, no two crystals are the same. Remember that thing about snowflakes? Well snowflakes are crystals.

And the structured water thing, if it’s an undetectable characteristic of water then how do they know about it? Lol


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"God is an intelligible sphere, whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."

Llamando la Mareacion

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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: Bardy] * 1
    #28733276 -

Listen, I’m not gonna tell anyone they are being close minded.  But psychedelics show us firsthand, how our traditional understanding of the world is limited/incomplete at best.  False; Irrational, and conforming to our narrative of our existence so far at worst. 

Science has always been an attempt to explain how the world works, and science can be turned on its head with one single little hapcidental discovery.  I mean Isaac Newton discovered gravity because some asshole threw an apple at his head.  So are you guys currently “right” about crystal structure? Sure.  But all the hippy woo woo posters that seem stuck in hyperspace could be proven right in the future too in some capacity. 


Now that’s it, that’s all I’ve gotta say


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theRealrollforever said:
That’s not possible; even with computers

Edited by theRealrollforever (04/10/24 11:22 PM)

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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: theRealrollforever] * 2
    #28733358 -

You just said a whole load of nonsense.

Just because some scientific theory might be proven wrong at some stage does not mean everything is on equal footing. That’s stupid.


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"God is an intelligible sphere, whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."

Llamando la Mareacion

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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: Bardy]
    #28733399 -

Enjoy knowing everything…

:cheersyoufuck:


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theRealrollforever said:
That’s not possible; even with computers

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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: Bardy] * 1
    #28733400 -

Bardy said:
You just said a whole load of nonsense.

Just because some scientific theory might be proven wrong at some stage does not mean everything is on equal footing. That’s stupid.


That’s not at all what I said, do you even read?  Because for someone talking about how “valid” science is you have a shitty reading comprehension .  Never said anything about equal footing.  In fact, the discovery that makes you sound like an idiot 59 years from now doesn’t have to do with anything he’s posted.  It could just be another discovery that turns humanity on its head.

I don’t know why I argue with scientific aetheists, it’s pointless.


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theRealrollforever said:
That’s not possible; even with computers

Edited by theRealrollforever (04/11/24 01:47 AM)

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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #28733445 -

You said our theory of crystal structure could be turned on its head and some hippy woo woo might end up being right. That’s not likely.

Sorry for saying your comment was stupid, that’s my assholish tendencies coming out.

The theory of crystal structure and formation is fairly sound. There’s obviously things we still don’t know, lots and lots of things, and our current understanding of how crystals form is likely wrong to some degree, but there are degrees of wrongness.

Our current understanding is extremely likely to be way closer to how things actually work than some hippy woo woo. This is why people are able to even synthesise LSD. They understand how atoms work at a very fundamental level to the point where they can take one molecule and synthesise a new one. To do this they need to understand pretty well how these substances behave when dissolved in solutions.

For a substance to be dissolved in a solution means that it is no longer in a crystal lattice formation. It has been torn apart by the solvent. Therefore no matter what the form of the LSD crystal is, once it is dissolved it is the same as any other LSD solution (assuming the solvent is the same).


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"God is an intelligible sphere, whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."

Llamando la Mareacion

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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: Bardy]
    #28733448 -

No I said that our theory of crystal structure is exactly that…an extremely accurate (to this point) theory.


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theRealrollforever said:
That’s not possible; even with computers

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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #28733449 -

I understand if you are religious about science but my biochemistry masters degree holding “associate” shares the exact same overall position on science.  It’s accurate until it isn’t.  They just understand the finer points of whatever theory or science being worked so much more so than me.  Why would I argue about something I’m not educated on?

I think you may have missed my mark entirely.


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theRealrollforever said:
That’s not possible; even with computers

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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: theRealrollforever] * 1
    #28733456 -

Yeah, so we agree 🤣
I agree that it’s not 100% correct. There’s no theory of everything, it’s all just our best estimations.

I’m just saying that I think it’s correct enough to assume with very high confidence that the type of crystal has no effect on the experience because when it dissolves it’s not crystal anymore. This much we understand. Ask your biochem mate.

And I’m not sure what atheism has to do with this… lol

I don’t know why you put that label on someone you just met and think it has anything to do with the validity of what they’re saying.


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"God is an intelligible sphere, whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."

Llamando la Mareacion

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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: Bardy]
    #28733687 -

you are refusing to understand the very basic fact that every crystal dissolves differently and will create a different solution. with your logic your basically saying someone wouldn't be able to tell apart brown sugar dissolved in water from white sugar or powdered sugar. what I meant was the crystal doesn't disappear, it dissolves; evaporate the solution and its the crystal you were left with before dissolving it. sure its arrangement might have changed slightly but that doesn't stop it from having the same characteristics the crystal had before dissolving it. i know I'm right but you seem so set in your ways and disproving common logic its frustrating trying to explain this. anyone with sufficient experience with lsd can differentiate different effects from different crystals. different crystals are completely different experiences, take it from someone who knows.

Edited by goldengifts (04/11/24 01:05 PM)

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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: goldengifts] * 2
    #28733781 -

goldengifts said:
anyone with sufficient experience with lsd can differentiate different effects from different crystals. different crystals are completely different experiences, take it from someone who knows.


Oh yeah... here we go, the great LSD sage has spoken. So you think that you are the only one around here that has had sufficient experience with LSD to be able to make that definitive decision. I am guessing you think this has never been discussed before by people with decades of LSD experiences.

Personally I think the users state of mind has more to do with the LSD experience, but do not let that stop you from telling people they do not have enough experience with LSD.

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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: Kiwi89]
    #28733802 -

plain and simple if you dont acknowledge there are differences between varieties of lsd you are inexperienced. its like someone saying there is no difference between weed strains. and no I dont think im the only person on here with enough experience to tell the difference between strains of lsd in fact someone replied to my post their experience of different batches. I'm not putting myself on a podium of being the most experienced but as someone with sufficient lsd experience I can confidently say only a novice user would say all lsd is the same

Edited by goldengifts (04/11/24 03:31 PM)

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Re: Types of LSD ~ Difference between LSD-25, needlepoint, white fluff [Re: goldengifts] * 3
    #28733828 -

This is taken from a correspondence someone had with David Nichols (renowned chemist and co-author on Crystal Structure of an LSD-Bound Human Serotonin Receptor). I remember him speaking about this more in depth in a better interview/podcast, but I don’t remember which one offhand, but lsd is lsd..

Quote:
Hi there David,
I was in a long discussion with some people who claim that different synthesis methods of LSD and similar compounds can display radical differences in effect, but this kind of contradicts my understanding of it.
Shouldn't LSD just be LSD no matter what? Is the difference in dosages and mindset, or can drastic differences in effect purely from synthesis method be observed? Is this due to trace-elements in the batch? And why is there seemingly no credible information on this subject from any of the popular authorities on the subjects(You, Hofmann, Shulgin, Stafford, etc)

His response:

The original synthesis method is not crucial, although some methods may make it harder to purify the LSD than others.
Because LSD is so potent, there is no impurity potent enough to fit on a blotter that would affect the psychopharmacology of LSD. Years ago, realizing that a major impurity might be isoLSD, we examined the pharmacology of isoLSD. It had no significant effect at any receptor system we examined. If the LSD comes in a capsule, or tablet, then all bets are off because you could put all kinds of things in something that size.

Variability in effects is most often related to set and setting. For example, if someone buys a blotter and is told that it is standard commercial blotter, and then is sold another blotter (for much higher price!) and is told, “This blotter contains LSD originally synthesized by Hofmann himself at Sandoz laboratories” it is a safe bet that the “Hofmann LSD” will be given rave reviews compared to the conventional blotter. Most people in the street would not realize that it is not possible to get Sandoz LSD. I read years ago where someone said that they bought a particular psychedelic that “came out of Sasha’s lab.” I wrote to them that Sasha never put his compounds on the street, and that it was purely a marketing gimmick.


https://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/5qokry/no_such_thing_as_grades_of_lsd_on_dosage_mindset/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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