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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Torture No Biggee
    #2816914 - 06/22/04 01:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Commenting on the large number of suicide attempts at Gitmo:"It's not clear that simply being imprisoned or tortured would necessarily lead to a suicide," said Ronald W. Maris, suicide "expert" hired by the military.

Simply being tortured - WTF?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (06/22/04 01:42 PM)


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 8 months, 15 days
Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: Swami]
    #2816929 - 06/22/04 01:31 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


"Physical pain amounting to torture must be equivalent in intensity to the pain accompanying serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function or even death," according to an August 2002 memo by the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel to Alberto Gonzales, counsel to the president.





--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: Seuss]
    #2816967 - 06/22/04 01:46 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

To test this they took a well-paid volunteer dying from cirhossis of the liver and attached electrodes to his genitals. Then they slowly increased the current, asking him "Does it hurt this much?" until they were on a par.

Seriously, I would define torture as ANY action (other than confinement and being fed poor food) that you would NOT like done to you if you were captured, but that is far too simple and ethical.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Registered: 04/14/04
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Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: Swami]
    #2818192 - 06/22/04 07:53 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Seriously, I would define torture as ANY action (other than confinement and being fed poor food) that you would NOT like done to you if you were captured, but that is far too simple and ethical.




If they wouldn't like these actions done to them, maybe they should stop chopping off innocent peoples fucking heads?


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Registered: 04/14/04
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Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: Swami]
    #2818203 - 06/22/04 07:55 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Commenting on the large number of suicide attempts at Gitmo:"It's not clear that simply being imprisoned or tortured would necessarily lead to a suicide," said Ronald W. Maris, suicide "expert" hired by the military.





Another problem that I'm seeing with you is that you think these "people" think like we do. I enjoy life and I don't really want to give it up. These people respect martrydom. I wonder if the "unusually large" number of Al-Q members that commited suicide on 9/11 was because of their poor wittle conditions at home?


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InvisibleSwami
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Posts: 15,413
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Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2818427 - 06/22/04 08:56 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

If they wouldn't like these actions done to them, maybe they should stop chopping off innocent peoples fucking heads?

You detest emotionalism while being emotional?

Please show even one article linking a specific Gitmo detainee to a decapitation. Is anyone arrested automatically guilty in your mind?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: Swami]
    #2818658 - 06/22/04 10:10 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:

Please show even one article linking a specific Gitmo detainee to a decapitation. Is anyone arrested automatically guilty in your mind?




I just really couldn't give a fuck, to be honest. They could torture them, chop their legs off, and drop them in a shark infested tank. One look at the Berg executions, footage from 9/11, women and teenagers blowing up kids in Israel, and I'd be right there helping them. These "people" aren't human, they are depraved animals. And the best way to deal with depraved animals is to put them down.

Also, they aren't arrested, so thats a moo point.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2818699 - 06/22/04 10:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

germin8tionn8ion said:
I just really couldn't give a fuck, to be honest. They could torture them, chop their legs off, and drop them in a shark infested tank...These "people" aren't human, they are depraved animals. And the best way to deal with depraved animals is to put them down.



All mid-eastern people (except Jews) are terrorists, right? Agents of the state never make mistakes, right? Innocent people never get placed in custody, right? Those children at Waco deserved to be burned alive, right? Those 2,752 people killed on 9/11 deserved what they got for being in America, right? (Well, your mentality is the same as the terrorists, so I thought I'd ask this last one).

Quote:

Also, they aren't arrested, so thats a moo point.



What's a moo point? Are you a bovine?


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: Evolving]
    #2818722 - 06/22/04 10:23 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Evolving said:
All mid-eastern people (except Jews) are terrorists, right?




Nits make lice.
Quote:


Agents of the state never make mistakes, right?




Irrelevant questions never come from you, right?
What is your point of these questions?
Quote:


What's a moo point? Are you a bovine?




It's an allusion to an episode of Friends. Joey says "It's a moo point". They all look at him weird, and he says "You know, like a cow asked it".


Do you think that water is liquidy?

Do I win the prize for the most off-topic irrelevant pointless question, or are you still in number 1 seat?


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OfflineRedo
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Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2818735 - 06/22/04 10:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

germin8tionn8ion said:
Quote:

Evolving said:
All mid-eastern people (except Jews) are terrorists, right?




Nits make lice.





haha, so funny, but whats with the near-flaming?


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2818804 - 06/22/04 10:41 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

germin8tionn8ion said:
Nits make lice.



So, I take that to mean that genocide is okay by you. So, do you prefer your Muslims as lampshades or soap?

Quote:

Irrelevant questions never come from you, right?
What is your point of these questions?



Irrelevant? Your questions just show that you have trouble grasping concepts. Now put on your thinking cap, Corky. Tell me, do you think that people employed by a state (a government, like the U.S. government - get it?) are not agents of a state? If not, why not?

Quote:

It's an allusion to an episode of Friends.



Nice rationalization.

Quote:

Do you think that water is liquidy?

Do I win the prize for the most off-topic irrelevant pointless question..



Yes you do. My questions were relevant, you inability to grasp the points does not change this fact.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineSlackerKM
Unusual suspect

Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 80
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Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: Evolving]
    #2819703 - 06/23/04 02:41 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I'm totally against torture, but compared to what the conditions were like in Saddam's prisions, our detainees are living in a paradise.

From this ABC News article:
Quote:


Among the techniques that Rumsfeld approved on Dec. 2, 2002, in addition to that one, the yelling and the stress positions:

Use of 20-hour interrogations.

Removal of all comfort items, including religious items.

Removal of clothing.

Using detainees' "individual phobias such as fear of dogs to induce stress."





This kind of stuff is not right, but making prisoners feel scared, stressed, and physically uncomfortable ranks near the bottom of the torture scale. Know any medieval European history? Those guys knew how to truely torture people, and it's nothing like what we do.


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Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a night. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: Swami]
    #2819715 - 06/23/04 02:46 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

What about the constitution?


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What?


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2819782 - 06/23/04 03:15 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Although you presented many gems, this one in particular stood out, I guess for its sheer stupidity.
Quote:

shark infested tank




--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Offlineblu3
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Registered: 03/06/04
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Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2819798 - 06/23/04 03:22 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

germin8tionn8ion said:
Quote:

Swami said:
Seriously, I would define torture as ANY action (other than confinement and being fed poor food) that you would NOT like done to you if you were captured, but that is far too simple and ethical.




If they wouldn't like these actions done to them, maybe they should stop chopping off innocent peoples fucking heads?




if these "innocent" (subjective) people don't like getting their heads chopped off maybe we should get the fuck out of their country.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: SlackerKM]
    #2819890 - 06/23/04 04:13 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

If there is no shame in what America has done, why the hiding of documents, why the rationalizing, why the lame comparisons to something worse, why the order for no cameras?

Remember, according to the New Laws, ANY AMERICAN can be labeled as a terrorist and held without bail, with being charged, without a lawyer or trial and can be tortured.

This is NOT why I put my ass on the line when I served my country a few decades ago.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
Rogue State
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Registered: 04/17/03
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Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: Swami]
    #2819974 - 06/23/04 05:20 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

if these "innocent" (subjective) people don't like getting their heads chopped off maybe we should get the fuck out of their country.




I agree totally, us westerners should be confined to our own countries, damn that Paul Johnson for occupying Saudi Arabia. He brought it upon himself..


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #2820038 - 06/23/04 06:17 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Correct your post - that is not my quote.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: Swami]
    #2820043 - 06/23/04 06:26 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

True.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: Torture No Biggee [Re: SlackerKM]
    #2820343 - 06/23/04 11:39 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

What about the detainees killed by beatings? What about the anal raping of those in custody with foreign objects? Is a dog chewing on a naked man a good thing? Where there's smoke there's fire, anyone who thinks that the incidents that became public knowledge are the only ones that occurred is either naive or deluded.

The repeated refrains from the moral relativists (in various verbal permutations) that "compared to what the conditions were like in Saddam's prisons, our detainees are living in a paradise" are NOT excuses, but are rationalizations of people that have lost their moral bearing (maybe years of public school PC indoctrination are having their desired effect). Make no mistake, differences of degree are not the same as differences of kind. Those who excuse such actions are excusing and promoting future similar actions and cannot righteously condemn their victims as animals without they themselves displaying their own bestiality. Do we praise the burglar because he is not a robber? Do we praise the rapist because he is not a pedophile? Do we praise the wife beater because he is not a murderer?

I have neither seen nor heard of any evidence that those individuals being subject to the actions of our proud uniformed sadists and sodomites were convicted of any crimes. The most the apologists can come up with is that the victims are Mid-Eastern people or Muslims and that some Mid-Eastern people and Muslims are terrorists, so this is justified. Balderdash! It seems that all the self proclaimed 'Christian' and other supporters of the Warfare State who rationalize these actions as well as the dropping of exploding ordinances in the vicinity of the innocent are missing the meaning behind these word, "Inasmuch as ye have done unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done unto me." To support inhumanity in the name of combating inhumanity is hypocrisy and displays an inability to look honestly into one's own soul.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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