ballsalsa said:

You're way too intelligent not to know the point.
Putin got it right away.

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Stable Genius said:

Brian Jones said:

Yes America screwed with Australia's political system when I was in high school, which deserves criticism, particularly from Australians.
But I'm medicare eligible in two months, so only those most directly affected will care about something that long ago. I had a college friend who became a Navy pilot in the middle 80's. He said American Navy boys were still popular in Australia going back to the war with Japan. I knew Serbians who said they had previously been the victims of atrocities. But the atrocities they committed were recent.

Offenses from the past fade with time, except to those most affected,

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Whitlam was a polarising figure. Business leaders loathed him, unionists, students, women in general loved him. My mother recalls Gough being the best Prime Minister Australia has ever had.

He achieved a lot in 3 years.

He pulled the last troops out of Vietnam.
Led a delegation to China(Nixon announced a visit the following week).

Introduced equal pay for women.
Introduced welfare payments for single mothers and the homeless.

Removed the death penalty for Commonwealth offenses.
Simplified the Family Law Court and introduced non-punitive divorce laws.

Introduced free university, yep free, again women benefited significantly.
Basically kick started the Land Rights movement with the epic gesture towards Vincent Lingiari after the walk off from Wave Hill Station.

Ensured that Papua New Guinea independence.

They're the main ones, he did a lot of other stuff, made a heap of blunders, was almost as arrogant as Trump(but in a nicer way and man could he talk well being a barrister) yet was a thoroughly decent leader and a champion of the underclass.

No wonder he was jokingly referred to as the countries only living god

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

ballsalsa said:

You're way too intelligent not to know the point.
Putin got it right away.

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Nope.  I didn't understand his point.  Please help.

And were you being sarcastic in your response?  I still can't tell.

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Quote:

Russia and Ukraine signed three agreements in 1997 governing the status of the Black Sea Fleet. The fleet was divided between Kyiv and Moscow, with the Kremlin receiving most of the warships. In exchange, Russia paid Ukraine's cash-strapped government $526 million in compensation. Kyiv also agreed to lease Crimean naval facilities to the Russian portion of the fleet for $97 million annually. The leasing agreement was renewed in 2010 and expires in 2042.

Under the agreements, Russia was permitted to station a maximum of 25,000 troops, 132 armored combat vehicles and 24 pieces of artillery at its military facilities in Crimea.

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Quote:

CIA director John Brennan told a senior lawmaker Monday that a 1997 treaty between Russia and Ukraine allows up to 25,000 Russia troops in the vital Crimea region, so Russia may not consider its recent troop movements to be an invasion, U.S. officials said.

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Quote:

at its military facilities in Crimea.

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Brian Jones said:

That's a very impressive list of accomplishments. Given the unfortunate realities we live with, I'm surprised they even let him last 3 years. In the U.S. they probably would have killed him, just to make sure.

I'm really joggging my memory here, but I think in the movie, The Falcon and the Snowman, one of the major reasons  why the lead character sold American secrets to the Soviets was because of his outrage over America taking out Whitlam. I don't remember if they referenced it factually, but it was based on that.

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Hey, nothing wrong with your memory Brian, great call on The Falcon and the Snowman

Yep, Gough turned Aus politics on it's head, nobody comes close to what he did.

I did a post on the CIA's involvement in ousting Gough in the Australian Politics thread that has a couple more interesting videos but this one from 60 Minutes, Leavenworth prison 1982, is absolutely worth watching


https://archive.org/details/ChristopherBoyce1982InterviewRayMartin

LiquidSmoke said:

Would be nice to be able to talk to more Russians and Ukrainians about the situation directly, those who actually live in those areas.



Good thing our government and social media space decided to cut all ties with users from there.  Sounds pretty liberal.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Ok, so you seem to agree there was no attack, but you also seem to believe there was an invasion.

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shivas.wisdom said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Ok, so you seem to agree there was no attack, but you also seem to believe there was an invasion.

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Nowhere did I agree that there was no attack - I just know it was a relatively bloodless invasion, and I don't feel like quibbling over the definition of attack with you.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Did I say that [Russia hasn't attacked or invaded anything] somewhere???

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Quote:

Russia Ukraine war: Ukraine has more tanks than what it started with...

Waste not, want not. Ukraine says it has more tanks now than it did before the war began because Russian troops keep abandoning them.

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shivas.wisdom said:

So why act confused when other people properly associate you with your beliefs?

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Did I say that [Russia hasn't attacked or invaded anything] somewhere???

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