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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Wedding Vows
    #2751105 - 05/31/04 11:16 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

What exactly is the point?

"Do you, John Smith, promise to make love to the same woman over and over and over and over again until you are dead?"

"Yes, I will love Mary Lou until she gets fat and stops giving me head or until I hit middle-age and have enough money to trade her in for a 20-something yo hottie..."

"I, Mary Lou Archibaldi, promise to love honor and obey, John Smith, until he gets laid off and loses his pension and then starts drinking heavily..."

And what is up with second and third marriage vows? "Well, I lied to God, society, my mate and myself the first two times, but DAMMIT! THIS TIME I REALLY MEAN IT!"


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Re: Wedding Vows [Re: Swami]
    #2751115 - 05/31/04 11:20 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

It's a thing called love, and SOME people still mean it.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Wedding Vows [Re: silversoul7]
    #2751133 - 05/31/04 11:29 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Most everyone believes that they mean it at the time. " I am horny and you are so damned cute and fun to be around and we have yet to face any real challenges yet, so..."

Love however, is NOT a feeling, but a choice. "We got divorced because we fell out of love with one another. It (some mysterious outside influence) was just no longer working."

Commitment means making it work, not passively reacting to one's emotions.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Wedding Vows [Re: Swami]
    #2751155 - 05/31/04 11:35 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Commitment means making it work, not passively reacting to one's emotions.



Agreed


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisible2Experimental
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Registered: 01/15/03
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Re: Wedding Vows [Re: Swami]
    #2751182 - 05/31/04 11:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"Love however, is NOT a feeling"

what?!
love is not a feeling? hmm I think you might be mistaken?




"Most everyone believes that they mean it at the time. " I am horny and you are so damned cute and fun to be around and we have yet to face any real challenges yet, so...""

sadly this is many times true.. I went to a wedding this past weekend, the girl was 19 and the guy was 20... both of them still in school, and have jobs ECT.. I think it is sad they did not at least wait till they got out of school!!! All I can say is they will have a hard time ahead.... if they were REALLY ' in love' it could have waited till they were out of college....


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Wedding Vows [Re: Swami]
    #2751236 - 05/31/04 11:56 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Love is a feeling that fades in and out during a marriage. While I was married this last time, there would be periods of times when I didn't feel "in love", but I was at least at an age where I understood that love comes and go.

What makes a marriage last is the commitment to the vows, and respect and love for the person you married. "Feeling in love", and genuine love, are two different things, imo. "Feeling in love" equates to horniness. Genuine love stays in the marriage because of the commitment and respect.

But I also disagree that someone should stay in a marriage if someone is abusing drugs, or alcohol, or is having an affair.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Wedding Vows [Re: Frog]
    #2751460 - 06/01/04 12:33 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

But I also disagree that someone should stay in a marriage if someone is abusing drugs, or alcohol, or is having an affair.

Uh oh! Here comes the legalese. Then we can add an infinite number of permutations and sub-clauses. Then we have to to define abusing (subjective). "My hubby had two beers while watching the SuperBowl *gasp*. Call my lawyer!"

If you want these escape hatches, then they should be written in. However, "Till death do you part," is quite clear and succinct, is it not? And of course - very Biblical, though Christians get divorced as often as atheists (even after vowing to God, the centerpiece of their life on earth). Seems selfishness and rationalization remains unaffected by religious beliefs.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Wedding Vows [Re: Swami]
    #2751539 - 06/01/04 12:49 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Any one see the Love episode on Penn and Teller's Bullshit?


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Wedding Vows [Re: Swami]
    #2751615 - 06/01/04 01:05 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Uh oh! Here comes the legalese. Then we can add an infinite number of permutations and sub-clauses. Then we have to to define abusing (subjective). "My hubby had two beers while watching the SuperBowl *gasp*. Call my lawyer!"




No, not unless you want to pay me for the permutations and sub-clauses.  :grin: 

Quote:

If you want these escape hatches, then they should be written in. However, "Till death do you part," is quite clear and succinct, is it not? And of course - very Biblical, though Christians get divorced as often as atheists (even after vowing to God, the centerpiece of their life on earth). Seems selfishness and rationalization remains unaffected by religious beliefs.




I agree with you that "till death do you part" is quite clear and succinct.  The bible is quite clear on it as well.  I was prepared to stay with my ex in spite of his drinking.  I was just upping his bottom, one rung at a time, but he didn't like having his bottom brought up, so he divorced me. 

Truth is, though, I left my first marriage in spite of even being a Christian at that time.  I think it was immaturity on my part.  Regrets are 20/20.  I'm still glad, though, at this time, that I left.  He was not very nice.  I guess I'm a hypocrite.

Here's what I think now, though, at my ripe old age, and with all the wisdom I can muster:

One should stay married, regardless of physical or emotional or substance abuse, and regardless of affairs.  Leave the relationship, especially if you are in danger of physical abuse, but don't seek divorce.  Give the other person a chance to get counseling or help of some sort.

If the other person seeks divorce, let him.  But stay single.  I don't think, personally, that I am above being human.  Even though I agree with what the bible says, I would probably divorce the bastard and remarry.  So much for me.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineCleverName
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Re: Wedding Vows [Re: Frog]
    #2752253 - 06/01/04 08:05 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"If the other person seeks divorce, let him. But stay single."

why do that?


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Wedding Vows [Re: Swami]
    #2752563 - 06/01/04 11:25 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
What exactly is the point?

"Do you, John Smith, promise to make love to the same woman over and over and over and over again until you are dead?"

"Yes, I will love Mary Lou until she gets fat and stops giving me head or until I hit middle-age and have enough money to trade her in for a 20-something yo hottie..."

"I, Mary Lou Archibaldi, promise to love honor and obey, John Smith, until he gets laid off and loses his pension and then starts drinking heavily..."

And what is up with second and third marriage vows? "Well, I lied to God, society, my mate and myself the first two times, but DAMMIT! THIS TIME I REALLY MEAN IT!"




That's the reason i never got married, i don't believe in such commitment. I mean, let's be realistic, such commitment advocates to something near a union between two twin souls. Now i ask, how many "twin souls" get married ?
Marriage is nowadays and more than ever a social contract, i mean, most people don't give a damn about religion anymore when they get married, this indicates a cultural and social imposition.
There are many ways to deal with it. I live my life together with my girl and my daughter for already 7 years, i'm not married and myself and my girl, we don't want to get married. Mainly because we don't see what marriage will add in terms of happiness to our current lives. The commitment here is sincerity and the first one not feeling right about the relationship is free to take his life by its own.

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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OfflineScarfmeister
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Registered: 10/31/02
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Re: Wedding Vows [Re: Swami]
    #2752623 - 06/01/04 12:00 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Please don't flame your fellow members - trendal :wink:


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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


Edited by trendal (06/01/04 02:46 PM)


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Offlinepeleg
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Registered: 10/03/03
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Re: Wedding Vows [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #2754179 - 06/01/04 08:07 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

for better or worse....man there are goood times and there are rough times.A relationship is like building a house, first ya got to dig out the footings and lay the foundation of trust,love,respect,honor,sacirfice,and build your house on these principles..Do i 'feel" in love? at times but i tend not to trust in my feelings becuase love goes so much deeper than a feeling.For me it's a commitment and yes there are up's and downs but it's through these up's and downs that we are made stronger,peace Gypsy


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"Well the first days are the hardest days." When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.....


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Anonymous

Re: Wedding Vows [Re: Swami]
    #2754514 - 06/01/04 09:49 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

It might be surprising to some people that the idea of marrying for love is a relatively new idea. Prior to the 20th century two people usually married mainly for financial and political reasons. Marriage was a way to make an alliance between two families, for economic or political gain.

Aside from a tax break, I would argue marriage is absolutely pointless. It trivializes commitment between two people in the form of vows, which shouldn't have to be taken in the first place. The irony is that, if two people are truly committed to each other, marriage is a sign of distrust showing that one of the partners thinks the other will leave him/her. Marriage makes a mockery of a bond between two people for this reason. It is an outdated ritual to appease the childbearer (read: woman), so that she knows her supporter will not leave her.


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