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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Enkidu] * 1
    #27455585 -

It's definitely anti-reasonable to be unvaccinated. You're giving up easy freedom and safetly by not getting vaccinated, and nobody has enough control over their lives to completely prevent exposure. You never know when an accident or a medical emergency might make it necessary for you to go to the ER, and if you go unvaccinated, then you're most likely going to get covid on top of what ever brought you there in the first place.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #27455594 -

I have no fear of covid though.

So that's very strange.

Maybe it has something to do with one being nature and one being man.

It's all purely feeling and gut


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Enkidu]
    #27455601 -

If your afraid of the vaccine and not covid, then you don't understand the threats. You should definitely not rely on your emotions and gut feeling for this decision if you don't have a thorough understanding of what your dealing with. It's purely abstract until you get sick or start losing people you care about, and then it's becomes very tangible that you're out of options an. The last unvaccinated person I saw in the hospital had a tube coming out of almost every hole. That's a urinary catheter, a fecal catheter, oral intubation for ventilation, and a nasogastric tube for feeding. They put lots of other holes in the personal for things like IV access and arterial lines too. Whatever kind of life that person is going to have if they get out of the hospital is something that's worth being afraid of.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Enkidu]
    #27455603 -

Fear isn't necessary to guide rational behavior, obviously it typically has the opposite effect.

With the delta variant, everyone who isn't literally a hermit will almost certainly get COVID. The choice really just comes down to the scenario I posted a few days ago:



Quote:
Let's say you walk into a doctors office, he has two syringes in his hand.

One syringe contains enough SARS-CoV-2 virus to develop a typical infection. The virus in this syringe has killed millions around the world, hospitalized and damaged the health of hundreds of millions more. This virus has an extensive history of causing lasting damage and lingering side effects in a plethora of different ways, some permanent. Many young and healthy people who only developed mild symptoms from infection with this virus have experienced long-term or permanent damage to their health.

The other syringe is an FDA approved vaccine that offers nearly complete protection against the damage and sickness caused SARS-CoV-2 infection, which you will almost certainly be exposed to at some point in the future. The risk of side effects that last more than a day or two is extremely miniscule, exponentially less than if you choose the other syringe.

You have to take one, which one do you take?



The scenario is hypothetical but the choice really is not. You're choosing to either be exposed to Covid while vaccinated or be exposed to Covid while unvaccinated.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: feevers]
    #27455610 -

So from there it becomes ,

A) Risk of hospitalization for overestimating your immune system and/or underestimating covid ; and potential to spread to others

B) get vaccinated to add protection and reduce risk of hospitalization and spread to others

The idea of going somewhere and letting them stick needles in my arm and inject me with something seems very wrong to me.

Just pure natural instinct.

You guys didn't have that feeling at all?


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Enkidu]
    #27455613 -

Suppose you fell off your bike with your face on the pavement, bloodied from forehead to chin. That happened to me.

Suppose it happened to you. Would you feel as weirded out by the notion of getting a Tetanus shot?




--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #27455618 -

Tripsurfer said:
koods said:
Tripsurfer said:
According to this article

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison

"In early May, the Pfizer vaccine was found to be more than 95% effective against severe disease or death from the Alpha variant (first detected in the United Kingdom) and the Beta variant (first identified in South Africa) in two studies based on real-world vaccinations"

Pfizer is a little over 95% effective at preventing deaths

So even with a 100% vaccinated population, about 5% will not be safe. And thats excluding people who cant take the vaccine for medical reasons (no idea about that percentage)


At 90% vaccination rate 14.5% are not protected against severe disease. Obviously getting everyone vaccinated is the best option.

I’m not sure where you’re going with this. This just seems like another example of people who don’t want to do something using a lack of perfection as their excuse.



Why dont you answer my question?

Yes, obviously 100% vaccination would offer great protection.

100% vaccination PLUS social distancing, masks, apps, QR-codes and Covid passports would be even better.


At what percentage of the population being vaccinated would you be willing to give up all additional measures?

Whats an acceptable number of collateral damage for you to not wear a mask anymore?


I don’t wear a mask anymore unless it’s required and in the grocery store. Bars and restaurants I go to are for vaccinated people only.

If you can’t get vaccinated you can wear a n95 mask. I see no need to protect the unvaccinated when everyone has the opportunity to get vaccinated.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (09/04/21 09:56 AM)

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: feevers]
    #27455620 -

Fear typically drives behavior that could be viewed as irrational, but it can still promote good decision making in circumstances where the fear response is well adapted to the trigger/stimulus. We run from dangerous predators out of fear to avoid being killed and eaten, and people who are afraid of heights avoid falling off of cliffs by staying far away from edges, for example. Fear doesn't do as well with new threats though, so it can bias decisions making strategies towards previously developed models of fear response. distrust and avoidance in response to governmental authority being exercised, can work as a fear response to the covid pandemic because it resembles government overreach that people are afraid of. Covid is still pretty new for most people, and until it gets repeatedly experienced in a way that thoroughly separates it from things like governmental authority, it's going to get the same kind of fear response that those things will get. People can overcome their fears with good introspection and reasoning, but until they do, they use what they have available.


I was okay with the idea of an injection. I have some background in medicine and a good bit in general sciences, and I understand (well enough for my comfort at least) what they injected me with and why they did it. I would have done the injection myself if they let me. I trust what's in the vaccines much more than I trust the idea of being exposed to some novel virus that may have been optimized in a lab to infect cells and avoid the human immune response. IMHO, Fear of the injection itself seems like an immature defense mechanism to enable the indecision.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Enkidu]
    #27455627 -

Quote:
Enkidu said:
So from there it becomes ,

A) Risk of hospitalization for overestimating your immune system and/or underestimating covid ; and potential to spread to others

B) get vaccinated to add protection and reduce risk of hospitalization and spread to others

The idea of going somewhere and letting them stick needles in my arm and inject me with something seems very wrong to me.

Just pure natural instinct.

You guys didn't have that feeling at all?


Essentially, but hospitalization and death aren't the only bad outcomes you're limiting your risk for. Things such as 'long COVID', myocarditis, lung scarring, lasting heart abnormalities and tachycardia, etc. are common and happen even in asymptomatic or mild cases. Some are actually turning out be more common in younger people. Even something most people think is minor like a loss of taste/smell, which is very common, can really fuck with you psychologically and for some people takes many months to mostly or fully recover.

If anything it felt good to go get the shot. Knowing you're doing something to pretty much eliminate your risk of getting fucked up by a deadly virus is a good feeling, especially knowing you're contributing to things getting back to normal... or more normal I guess. If you're worried at all about the needle, I literally did not feel the shot the second time and the first was basically a pinch... I've never had a shot that painless before.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27455672 -

That is not what I am asking you

Are you purposely mis-interprating my question?


If 100% of the US population is vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine, about 5% of all those vaccinated people are still at risk.

Would you accept additional measures to protect those 5% of fully vaccinated people for whom the vaccine is not effective?



This isn't about not getting the vaccine


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #27455681 -

So even if I want to risk myself then from there I need to be able to justify putting others at risk and potential strain on medical

I guess justifying that isn't exactly easy


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #27455683 -

The Mayor of DC has ordered Koods to wear a mask indoors. That means his vaxxed only bar and everything lmao.

https://coronavirus.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/coronavirus/page_content/attachments/Mayors-Order-2021-097.pdf


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #27455687 -

Tripsurfer said:
That is not what I am asking you

Are you purposely mis-interprating my question?


If 100% of the US population is vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine, about 5% of all those vaccinated people are still at risk.

Would you accept additional measures to protect those 5% of fully vaccinated people for whom the vaccine is not effective?



This isn't about not getting the vaccine


They can wear a mask if they need to. I already said that


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27455689 -

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-mask-mandate-covid/2021/07/29/7699c8e0-efe6-11eb-81d2-ffae0f931b8f_story.html

Masks will again be required indoors in D.C. beginning Saturday, Mayor Muriel E. Bowser ordered, in a reversal of recent policy driven by new federal guidelines that recommend indoor masking in areas where coronavirus transmission is high.

The new requirement, which Bowser (D) announced Thursday, will apply to vaccinated and unvaccinated people over the age of 2.

“I know D.C. residents have been very closely following the public health guidelines and they will embrace this,” she said at a news conference.

Come on Koods make sure to wear your mask around all your vaccinated buddies don't disobey don't be anti science.


Embrace it Koods.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Enkidu]
    #27455690 -

This graph indicated the number of Covid deaths per age group and gender here in the Netherlands



Is there something similar available with US numbers?


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: budmanman]
    #27455692 -

Oh nooooooo the MU variant ohhh my god guys guys, this is getting crazy there is a MU variant and it could be completely resistant to vaccination oh my god oh my god we are no longer safe oh my god.

"Mu COVID Variant, Which Could Be Resistant to Vaccines, Now in Almost Every State"

https://www.newsweek.com/mu-covid-variant-could-resistant-vaccines-almost-every-state-1626119


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27455695 -

The thing is, those people dont know the vaccine is not effective for them until they get sick and die regardless of being vaccinated.

So would you support additional measures for everybody (including all vaccinated people) to protect those 5%?


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: budmanman]
    #27455697 -

From the article:

"However, Dr. Anthony Fauci has said Mu is not considered an "immediate threat."


Jeez, this does sound like I heard it before. Do these guys never learn

I expect it to be the main thing in a couple weeks


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: budmanman]
    #27455704 -

budmanman said:
The Mayor of DC has ordered Koods to wear a mask indoors. That means his vaxxed only bar and everything lmao.

https://coronavirus.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/coronavirus/page_content/attachments/Mayors-Order-2021-097.pdf


That order is completely ignored in vaccinated only spaces. Non need to wear a mask when everybody else is vaccinated. Covid isn’t a problem for the vaccinated and DC doesn’t have any problem with our hospital capacity.

The only reason vaccinated people have to wear masks is to protect the unvaccinated.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: budmanman]
    #27455706 -

budmanman said:
Oh nooooooo the MU variant ohhh my god guys guys, this is getting crazy there is a MU variant and it could be completely resistant to vaccination oh my god oh my god we are no longer safe oh my god.

"Mu COVID Variant, Which Could Be Resistant to Vaccines, Now in Almost Every State"

https://www.newsweek.com/mu-covid-variant-could-resistant-vaccines-almost-every-state-1626119


Someone already posted that. It evades some antibodies in-vitro, like most in-vitro research it probably won't mean a whole lot clinically but we'll see. Delta makes up like 99% of cases right now I'm pretty sure and I don't really see that changing with how contagious it is.

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