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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: userx]
    #27348840 -

userx said:
Icelander said:
Has anyone, even if only for an moment or two loved a person, or life, unconditionally? Accepting it just as it or they were, with all the "good and bad"?


what you get, always, is two people who -believe- they are in love. unconditional love doesn't make sense, unless we are talking about accepting someone as they are in the present. can't love someone who goes and does something absolutely evil later.


If love is for a person it’s conditional

I miss Ice

There is nothing wrong with conditional love

It’s not  same as unconditional love

As more of the mind structure falls away people report changes in the experience of unconditional love

It’s not an emotion

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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: Freedom]
    #27348946 -

so there are things of which we may be aware, that do not fit well in language:

mind = (conditioned = perceptions) + (freshness = being here & now (the not yet conditioned))

love is a quality and therefore if perceived, the "taint" of conditioning is upon it.

but if the quality is not yet perceived then it is unconditioned, and that implies:

either the love is not yet sensible (i.e. still organically developing)
or it is awaited - as if part of a destiny, or prophecy, or dream. (which implies projection which is an active imagination and therefore conditioned.)

So, I have to rest with the idea that unconditioned love may be intrinsic and organically developing; and that makes sense biologically: consider the nurturing quality of nature, constantly being refined by evolution over eons. the biosphere as a nurture-sphere that is paying itself forward.

well of course in that case it is billions of years of conditioning as well, so the phrase kinda does not hang together.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27350140 -

Pure love like freewill is both conditional and unconditional.

Like the boundless and the planets..

The sub-atomic rotation of the atoms that exist are like arks.
Of the reservoir and river of life.

The arc of the covenant..

Lines are coming into focus precisely because of your will.!

Positions adjacent to everything else IS the meaning of dimensions.

Dimensions of love.
Depth and reason.

Degrees of freeedom for grand expression and insight and inquisition and inspection.

Dharma returns the wheel of fortune is glory.
Karma that rotates around the world and follows the same system of laws that govern the bodies of rotating mechanics.


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Thank you for your Time...

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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: Freedom]
    #27351038 -

Freedom said:
userx said:
Icelander said:
Has anyone, even if only for an moment or two loved a person, or life, unconditionally? Accepting it just as it or they were, with all the "good and bad"?


what you get, always, is two people who -believe- they are in love. unconditional love doesn't make sense, unless we are talking about accepting someone as they are in the present. can't love someone who goes and does something absolutely evil later.


If love is for a person it’s conditional

I miss Ice

There is nothing wrong with conditional love

It’s not  same as unconditional love

....


Seems both Ice lander (and later posters), confuse(d) things.
1) He wants a person to be both a present time stable entity
2) But he presumably also wants a person to be able to grow
3) Which means they get to grow and CHANGE
4) of course this goes for both parties
5) but then (& here is the 'kicker') he wants nothing to change - this is what he calls "unconditional love"
6) And then he loads the dice in favor of his argument by postulating "absolute[ly] evil "

This is basically like a small child that is very spoiled, wanting to get away with the worst possible behavior, and still get coddled, get more privileges, more toys, and more attention than anyone else in the family.
This shows a mistaken idea of both what love is, and what children need.

1) Love that can't set limits, because it wants/needs to be liked by the child is not love.
(The same principle applies in adult relationships)
2) Children sometimes keep behaving worse and worse, in the hopes that limits will be set.
(The same principle applies with teenagers & in adult relationships)
3) Why do we want limits?    Because it makes one feel secure.

If you go to a good Doctor, he tells you what to do and sets limits, and as a result one trusts his knowledge and authority and feels safer. This is the same principle as with babies, puppies, and us.

Icelander seems to have been lost trying to make sense out of, trying to mix philosophy with some personal disappointments, and hoping to then produce THE ETERNAL TRUTH, from such a dubious mix, of 2 already less than reliable sources.

"unconditional love" is a concept, that folks like, that are "into spirituality".

Even the rolling stones song:

"No, you can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometime you find
You get what you need ... "

takes the trouble to distinguish between 2 aspects that often get muddled.

Edited by laughingdog (06/16/21 06:52 PM)

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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: laughingdog]
    #27351153 -

that kind of perspective might help,

but Ice is toast now, and let's not get too rough to his memory, though this perspective has fair points.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: Icelander]
    #27397554 -

It's perfectly possible. I love everyone unconditionally.


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How to rid your body of the spike protein caused by the Covid vaccines.

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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: Painkiller]
    #27397568 -

I do not love mosquitos


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27397571 -

Unless they bite other people?


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Thank you for your Time...

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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27397850 -

Mosquitos are people too

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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #27398006 -

vampirical


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27398363 -

not a vampire
and before vampire we are not retards


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Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27398396 -

after vampires suck our brains out then we are retards


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27398400 -

Vampires suck out blood.  What would they want a human brain for?  That’s zombie fodder.

Unconditional love hm?.  Don’t know if it’s the same but at the least the notion of bodhicitta makes me reflect more deeply upon what’s really going on on my dinner plate.


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Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

Edited by The Blind Ass (07/22/21 09:44 PM)

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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #27398463 -

you are right I think
zombies are imaginary and vampires are mosquitos


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27398566 -

Not either are vampires wiser than us.. but they also have unconditional love as well..


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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27398927 -

You might interpret the mosquito as one w/ a persistent desire.  They do not discriminate, but suck unconditionally.

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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #27399215 -

you got that right, I carry a mosquito helmet at all times.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27400122 -

One w/ unconditional love might be parasitic.  Unless love is always altruistic? 

Tho the mosquito is probably just consenting to biological imperatives.  So I guess that means that unconditional love is voluntary and altruistic...

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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #27401077 -

Let, allow, etc.


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Re: Is unconditional love impossible. [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27402539 -

An appeal to trust.  I just wonder whether it is an erotic move or not.  If it is not desire, as in the wanting of something or the desiring of something that one already has, then unconditional love is more like acceptance.  An internal condition of receptivity and allowance w/o any conditional qualifications.  The outward manifestation of this would not be desire.  It would more likely be commitment and a dedication to the world despite its less than optimal characteristics.  Or just a smile and a nod of support to a passerby.

I find desire to be more self centered.  Acceptance less so.  But it is not true that it is better to be selfless.  Every atheist can understand this when they think about the onslaught of the smiling theist knocking on their door to spread the good news of love and cheer.  Which indicates that the selfless are selling something too.

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